Detecting language using up to the first 30 seconds. Use `--language` to specify the language Detected language: English [00:00.000 --> 00:03.600] Warning, the following show contains explicit language. [00:03.600 --> 00:07.720] Certain people should not listen to this show, such as children and panty waste adults who [00:07.720 --> 00:12.800] cry like 12-year-old little girls when they hear profanity. [00:12.800 --> 00:18.400] Welcome, welcome my friends to the Dr. Reality Podcast. [00:18.400 --> 00:23.240] I'm Dave Champion and I want to talk to you about something that I think may, depending [00:23.240 --> 00:30.020] on how things go, change the entire landscape of law enforcement use of force. [00:30.020 --> 00:34.000] We all know that Derek Chauvin has now been convicted of multiple counts of murder and [00:34.000 --> 00:39.740] he's going to be spending probably close to the rest of his life in prison. [00:39.740 --> 00:46.080] But Chauvin's conviction, in my opinion, doesn't necessarily mean much. [00:46.080 --> 00:52.480] One cop did something wrong, he went to trial, he was convicted and he's going to jail. [00:52.480 --> 00:58.600] But that's not particularly profound in the terms of law enforcement and how it functions. [00:58.600 --> 01:05.080] The upcoming trial of the three remaining officers involved in the George Floyd murder, [01:05.080 --> 01:11.060] that may have extremely profound impacts on how law enforcement officers go about their [01:11.060 --> 01:12.840] business in the field. [01:12.840 --> 01:18.400] The three former Minneapolis police officers who are coming up to trial are Jay Alexander [01:19.400 --> 01:21.880] if I'm pronouncing his last name correct. [01:21.880 --> 01:27.680] He's the one that I have a bit of empathy for because that was his third shift. [01:27.680 --> 01:34.080] Yeah, he's not just a rookie but like a virgin rookie. [01:34.080 --> 01:36.360] The second officer is Thomas Lane. [01:36.360 --> 01:44.420] He joined in February 2019 and under Minneapolis PD standards for field training for probationers. [01:44.420 --> 01:48.820] He was also considered still a rookie at the time that George Floyd was murdered. [01:48.820 --> 02:00.100] And lastly, Tuto, he joined the Minneapolis police department in 2012 and yeah, he has [02:00.100 --> 02:04.060] always been a problem officer but that is not germane to what we're going to be talking [02:04.060 --> 02:05.340] about today. [02:05.340 --> 02:10.660] In order to understand this possible profound impact on law enforcement, we have to understand [02:10.660 --> 02:17.500] what charges are being brought against these three and what a conviction will mean. [02:17.500 --> 02:22.380] Each one of them has had two counts brought against them by the prosecutor. [02:22.380 --> 02:30.180] One is aiding and abetting second degree unintentional murder. [02:30.180 --> 02:32.740] That doesn't make much sense to me but I don't live in Minnesota. [02:32.740 --> 02:38.900] The second charge is aiding and abetting second degree manslaughter. [02:38.900 --> 02:44.220] Those are pretty weighty charges and those three charges have been brought against each [02:44.220 --> 02:46.460] of those three officers. [02:46.460 --> 02:51.140] That's as much as we need to know to understand what might be an incredibly profound effect [02:51.140 --> 02:54.820] if they are found guilty. [02:54.820 --> 03:01.100] Historically, and I'm not talking about decades ago, I'm talking about in many places it's [03:01.100 --> 03:02.920] still currently in place. [03:02.920 --> 03:07.380] Some places it's recently been shifted somewhat and some places they've corrected it although [03:08.340 --> 03:11.300] but those are very, very few and far between. [03:11.300 --> 03:18.980] What I'm speaking of is one officer using force, laying his hands upon another officer [03:18.980 --> 03:24.220] to stop some sort of abusive harm being conducted by the first officer. [03:24.220 --> 03:28.740] I will tell you there is not a single cop at police in the United States that's been [03:28.740 --> 03:35.500] on the job for more than a minute and a half that hasn't seen another officer committing [03:35.620 --> 03:40.620] an unnecessary, unjustified, harmful action against a suspect. [03:40.620 --> 03:43.780] It just goes part and parcel with the job. [03:43.780 --> 03:49.660] Even if you're seeing something as flat ass illegal as far as use of force by an officer [03:49.660 --> 03:56.620] over there, if you lay your hand, you're an officer, and you lay your hands on that officer, [03:56.620 --> 03:59.140] you don't have a fucking job anymore. [03:59.140 --> 04:07.260] As I said, that is changing across the nation, but with most entrenched cultural ethoses, [04:07.260 --> 04:11.580] that's the cultural ethos of the law enforcement community, especially management, it takes [04:11.580 --> 04:12.580] a while to change. [04:12.580 --> 04:17.700] Now, I understand Houston some time ago, two, three years ago, changed its policy. [04:17.700 --> 04:22.580] If you're seeing that and you do not act, then you will be up for punishment, but that's [04:22.580 --> 04:24.060] a rarity. [04:24.060 --> 04:28.080] Most agencies across the nation, although it would be very difficult to do right now [04:28.080 --> 04:33.880] in the wake of the George Floyd matter, but the policy up here in the head of police executives [04:33.880 --> 04:39.160] across the nation is, yeah, so if Officer Smith laid his hands on Officer Jones during [04:39.160 --> 04:43.720] the course of an arrest claiming that Officer Jones was being too violent or violating policy, [04:43.720 --> 04:46.140] yeah, Officer Smith is getting fired. [04:46.140 --> 04:51.880] That has been the longstanding, longstanding historical reality of how it works in law [04:51.880 --> 04:53.960] enforcement in the United States. [04:53.960 --> 04:58.640] The number of departments that actually have a policy where you must physically intercede [04:58.640 --> 05:01.360] is very, very small. [05:01.360 --> 05:07.440] Most of the agencies have no policy about that, leaving the officer who's seeing this [05:07.440 --> 05:13.080] abuse, leaving him or her in the position of being like, what do I do? [05:13.080 --> 05:18.880] I feel I need to intercede if it's a good cop, but if I do, I could lose my job. [05:18.880 --> 05:21.120] I've got a spouse and six kids. [05:21.120 --> 05:23.200] I can't lose my job. [05:23.240 --> 05:29.000] As you can imagine, one of the primary reasons that's been frowned on, to say the least, [05:29.000 --> 05:34.500] for decades and decades and decades and decades in law enforcement, is that you're trying [05:34.500 --> 05:39.560] to arrest a suspect, maybe two, hell, maybe three, and suddenly you do not want your officers [05:39.560 --> 05:40.560] brawling. [05:40.560 --> 05:43.920] You can understand how that would be bad, right? [05:43.920 --> 05:49.920] That's how it started, but then it morphed into you just don't lay your fucking hands [05:49.920 --> 05:51.960] on another officer, period. [05:51.960 --> 05:52.960] That's wrong. [05:52.960 --> 05:58.680] The circumstances notwithstanding, you just don't do it, and that is totally wrong. [05:58.680 --> 06:02.920] Imagine you're a cop working somewhere in the United States, and again, as I said, the [06:02.920 --> 06:08.840] vast majority of departments do not have a policy mandating you must physically intercede. [06:08.840 --> 06:14.800] There's no policy about that, and yet you see guilty verdicts for one or more of the [06:14.800 --> 06:20.200] three Minneapolis officers that are facing trial upcoming here very soon, that one or [06:20.320 --> 06:26.760] more of them gets convicted of major felonies for not interceding, but your department doesn't [06:26.760 --> 06:28.360] have a policy. [06:28.360 --> 06:31.400] How are you going to play that when it actually comes up, right? [06:31.400 --> 06:36.680] It's like, okay, so if I do that, probably going to lose my job. [06:36.680 --> 06:43.480] If I don't do that, I could go to prison for the next 10 or 12 years. [06:43.480 --> 06:46.240] That's an awesome position to find yourself in, right? [06:46.240 --> 06:47.240] Not. [06:47.800 --> 06:53.400] Another officer sees another officer physically abusing, using force that is unnecessary on [06:53.400 --> 06:54.840] somebody. [06:54.840 --> 06:56.280] Do I want that to stop? [06:56.280 --> 06:57.280] I do. [06:57.280 --> 07:01.880] Do I want the officer who sees it and understands that it's wrong to intercede? [07:01.880 --> 07:03.240] I do. [07:03.240 --> 07:07.200] Do I think it's a great idea to have cops brawling with each other in the middle when they were [07:07.200 --> 07:08.800] trying to arrest someone else? [07:08.800 --> 07:10.440] No, I don't. [07:10.440 --> 07:18.680] I have long advocated what I think is just a common sense approach, which means it'll [07:18.680 --> 07:22.400] probably never get adopted in law enforcement. [07:22.400 --> 07:28.440] That is a safe word, like in BDSM play. [07:28.440 --> 07:33.720] This is how the safe word would play out on the street in my scenario. [07:33.720 --> 07:38.360] I'm just going to use the word zebra, because that's not a word we use very commonly in [07:38.360 --> 07:39.360] speech. [07:39.680 --> 07:44.120] I'm just going to use good cop and bad cop for the sake of this illustration, the bad [07:44.120 --> 07:47.680] cop being the one being abusive and the good cop being the one recognizing it and wanting [07:47.680 --> 07:49.080] to stop it. [07:49.080 --> 07:55.720] The bad cop is engaged in some sort of violent physical abuse of a suspect that is not justified. [07:55.720 --> 08:01.440] The good cop looks at that and says, I've got to stop this, but as at least an initial [08:01.440 --> 08:07.600] measure, I don't think it should be the only measure, as an initial measure, the good cop [08:07.600 --> 08:13.840] should be able to come up, get in the bad cop's ear, because he's probably doing this, [08:13.840 --> 08:18.480] he's getting physical, and he's focused on the suspect. [08:18.480 --> 08:24.460] Right there in his ear, zebra, zebra, zebra, zebra. [08:24.460 --> 08:26.720] That cannot be missed. [08:26.720 --> 08:33.640] Department policy would state that when another officer on the scene screams your BDSM safe [08:34.520 --> 08:42.200] in your ear, you must stop what you are doing immediately. [08:42.200 --> 08:49.240] If you don't, there's some, I would think, harsh punishment, because remember, another [08:49.240 --> 08:54.880] officer with the same training you have thinks that you are being violently abusive outside [08:54.880 --> 08:57.160] the law or outside department policy. [08:57.160 --> 09:03.600] When you hear that zebra, zebra, zebra, zebra, and you don't stop, you're choosing to continue [09:03.600 --> 09:09.800] and so I think the penalty should be harsh, administratively I would like to see 30 days [09:09.800 --> 09:10.800] without pay. [09:10.800 --> 09:13.200] I'm going to use Eric Garner. [09:13.200 --> 09:16.560] You remember him, the big overweight black guy down in New York, he was selling loosies [09:16.560 --> 09:21.560] on the street and the cops approached him and he was like, man, leave me alone, and [09:21.560 --> 09:26.560] the fight was on. [09:26.560 --> 09:30.280] Forget the detective's name, an Italian cat, plainclothes. [09:30.280 --> 09:35.000] He leaps on Garner and locks him up in a headlock and down they go. [09:35.000 --> 09:36.360] There's a bunch of cops there. [09:36.360 --> 09:40.160] This one undercover cop, he's got Garner by the neck and he's got him locked up and Garner [09:40.160 --> 09:44.000] is going, I can't breathe, I can't breathe. [09:44.000 --> 09:48.880] At that point, in this scenario that I'm sharing with you about how this should work, when [09:48.880 --> 09:54.280] he's gasping, I can't breathe, I can't breathe, another officer should have gone right to [09:54.280 --> 09:59.680] the ear of the undercover officer, zebra, zebra, zebra, zebra. [09:59.680 --> 10:03.600] Does that mean that the officer should immediately release the headlock? [10:03.600 --> 10:05.280] No, it does not. [10:05.280 --> 10:12.320] What it means is the officer needs to ease up and say, loudly so that bystanders, fellow [10:12.320 --> 10:19.720] officers can hear it, I am easing up my pressure on this neck, I am easing the pressure, suspect, [10:19.720 --> 10:23.520] do not fight, officers, I'm easing my pressure. [10:23.520 --> 10:27.040] There's a dialogue, there's communication taking place. [10:27.040 --> 10:33.280] The zebra, zebra, zebra in this scenario is intended to get the attention of the officer [10:33.280 --> 10:39.120] who is perceived to be going overboard, doing something that is outside of policy, outside [10:39.120 --> 10:44.700] the law, is injurious, is needlessly going to harm a suspect. [10:44.700 --> 10:47.280] Back to the trial of the three remaining officers. [10:47.280 --> 10:54.560] If one or more is convicted of one or more of the counts against them, law enforcement [10:54.720 --> 10:59.000] is going to have to set a policy, perhaps it'll adopt something like I've just shared [10:59.000 --> 11:00.400] with you now. [11:00.400 --> 11:06.600] Police unions are going to be saying to whatever government agency the officers of which they [11:06.600 --> 11:10.920] represent, they're going to be saying to the government agency, okay, we have to settle [11:10.920 --> 11:12.240] this. [11:12.240 --> 11:16.200] Officers have to know, they have to have a guideline, they have to have a policy, they [11:16.200 --> 11:21.600] have to have boundaries so when they see another officer acting violently outside of policy [11:21.600 --> 11:27.640] or outside the law or needlessly placing a suspect's safety at risk, we need to have [11:27.640 --> 11:36.000] some sort of guide by which our officers that this union represents knows what is expected [11:36.000 --> 11:37.760] of them. [11:37.760 --> 11:42.600] Every agency in America is going to have to put one of those two kinds of policies in [11:42.600 --> 11:43.840] place. [11:43.840 --> 11:50.920] That is, historically, in terms of law enforcement in the United States, that is a massive, massive [11:51.000 --> 11:55.240] game changer because, as I said, historically, one cop never laid his hands on another cop [11:55.240 --> 11:57.080] at the scene of an arrest. [11:57.080 --> 11:59.960] It just wasn't done and if you did it, you were getting fired. [11:59.960 --> 12:05.480] That is what has allowed cops to be so abusive during the arrest process, is they know if [12:05.480 --> 12:10.600] there's 20 cops standing there going, oh shit, oh shit, man, stop that, oh shit, none of [12:10.600 --> 12:14.280] those 20 cops could do anything about it or they'd be fired. [12:14.520 --> 12:22.520] Now, if any one of these three officers that were with Chauvin that day, if they are convicted [12:22.520 --> 12:28.200] of one or more of the charges against them, police unions are going to demand guidelines [12:28.200 --> 12:32.520] from their agency, the agency for which their officers are employed, they are going to demand [12:32.520 --> 12:37.080] guidelines on how officers are going to intercede. [12:37.080 --> 12:42.720] Once those guidelines are in place, then officers, if they don't want to get disciplined, they [12:42.880 --> 12:49.120] are going to have to intercede and that is, in American law enforcement history, a total [12:49.120 --> 12:51.120] fucking game changer.