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[00:00.000 --> 00:06.620]  Excellent. Spectacular. These are words people use to describe my recent guest appearance
[00:06.620 --> 00:12.100]  on Chris Moffat's show, Moffat's Hours, that streams on YouTube. Most hosts who interview
[00:12.100 --> 00:17.220]  me about the truth of the income tax haven't read Income Tax Shattering the Miss. Chris
[00:17.220 --> 00:21.860]  is the opposite. He read Income Tax Shattering the Miss before the interview. That made the
[00:21.860 --> 00:26.100]  interview more revealing because his questions focused on the parts of Income Tax Shattering
[00:26.100 --> 00:31.540]  the Miss. He found intriguing and felt his audience would also find intriguing. If you
[00:31.540 --> 00:36.380]  haven't read Income Tax Shattering the Miss yet, this interview is for you because Chris
[00:36.380 --> 00:42.580]  is like you, an ordinary guy who discovered an uncommon and extraordinary truth and found
[00:42.580 --> 00:48.780]  it so compelling he wanted to share it with others. So sit back and relax because you're
[00:48.780 --> 00:54.420]  going to find this interview fascinating. Chris's show live streams on a YouTube channel
[00:54.420 --> 01:00.180]  called the Unplugged Alpha, which was started by Rich Cooper. If you enjoy today's content,
[01:00.180 --> 01:03.820]  consider subscribing to the Unplugged Alpha channel. I'll put the link down in the notes
[01:03.820 --> 01:09.580]  along with the link to get Income Tax Shattering the Miss. Sit back, relax, enjoy.
[01:09.580 --> 01:15.060]  All right guys, we're live. Welcome back to another episode of Moffat's Hours. I'm your host Moff,
[01:15.060 --> 01:21.500]  here on the Unplugged Alpha channel. This is episode number 19. I'm really excited for
[01:21.500 --> 01:28.380]  tonight's episode, guys. So this is probably going to be one of the more spicy episodes
[01:28.380 --> 01:40.280]  or one of the eye-opening episodes that I've done thus far on this channel. You know, so
[01:40.280 --> 01:46.460]  I don't want to delay introductions to Dave any longer. I don't really have anything as
[01:46.460 --> 01:50.400]  far as housekeeping goes. The only thing I'll say is that, guys, this coming Monday, there's
[01:50.400 --> 01:56.400]  no ladies night. Myself and Rich will be on a trip with some of the generals. So no ladies
[01:56.400 --> 01:59.840]  night on Monday, but he'll be back on Wednesday for the Unplugged Alpha, 12 p.m. Eastern on
[01:59.840 --> 02:04.460]  Wednesday. And then next week, I'll be right here, same time as always, 8 p.m. on Thursday.
[02:04.460 --> 02:09.040]  So I got a really, really interesting guest for you guys tonight, man. Like this guy has
[02:09.040 --> 02:13.320]  done a lot of stuff. Let me just read off his bio really quick, and then we'll bring
[02:13.320 --> 02:18.200]  him on stage and we'll welcome him. So Dave Champion is a former Army Ranger with a law
[02:18.280 --> 02:22.360]  enforcement background. In the private sector, Dave is a businessman-turned-journalist, having
[02:22.360 --> 02:28.400]  hosted his own radio and television shows from 2000 through 2018. In addition to being a
[02:28.400 --> 02:32.600]  physiologist with a doctoral degree in political philosophy, Champion has an extensive
[02:32.600 --> 02:37.720]  background in legal studies. He served as a legal consultant on state and federal regulatory
[02:37.720 --> 02:42.120]  means, as well as a constitutional law advisor. Dave's a public speaker, having lectured on
[02:42.120 --> 02:46.160]  numerous subjects, including the United States Constitution, Second Amendment, Fourteenth
[02:46.160 --> 02:50.920]  Amendment, Sixteenth Amendment, the history and proper limited application of the income
[02:50.920 --> 02:55.720]  tax, what we're talking about tonight, government relations and human physiology. Dave is a
[02:55.720 --> 03:00.200]  former martial arts instructor and a renowned firearms tactics and use of force instructor.
[03:00.800 --> 03:04.600]  Dave's first book is the groundbreaking and widely acclaimed income tax, Shattering the
[03:04.600 --> 03:08.520]  Myths. Dave's second book, based on years of research, is Body Science, the New 21st
[03:08.520 --> 03:13.640]  Century Understanding of How Your Physiology Really Works. Leave the myths and lies behind.
[03:13.800 --> 03:20.840]  Get healthier than you or your doctor ever imagined and avoid chronic disease. So without
[03:20.840 --> 03:24.960]  further ado, let's bring the man on stage. Dave, how are we doing this evening?
[03:25.560 --> 03:27.320]  Excellent, Chris. Thank you for having me.
[03:27.960 --> 03:32.480]  Absolutely. Thank you for coming. It's a pleasure to have you. So let's just start off with
[03:32.480 --> 03:39.160]  this. So tell me just a little bit more about, before we get into background in your findings
[03:39.200 --> 03:44.520]  and sort of how you kind of came to some of these realizations, if you could sum up your
[03:44.520 --> 03:50.800]  opinion or your thesis statement on the United States federal income tax, what would that be?
[03:52.720 --> 03:59.320]  Congress has never imposed the income tax on the ordinary working American, that the
[03:59.320 --> 04:03.560]  three classes of persons upon whom Congress has imposed the tax are non-resident aliens with
[04:03.560 --> 04:07.600]  U.S. source income, foreign corporations with U.S. source income, U.S. citizens residing
[04:07.600 --> 04:14.160]  abroad with foreign earned income. And anything said to the contrary is either a lack of
[04:14.160 --> 04:17.800]  knowledge or intentional disinformation by the United States government.
[04:19.920 --> 04:25.280]  Lots to unpack there. So maybe let's start from the top.
[04:25.480 --> 04:29.640]  Tell me a little bit more about your background. We read your sort of bio there coming from
[04:29.920 --> 04:34.760]  working essentially for the U.S. government to being sort of maybe anti-U.S.
[04:34.760 --> 04:37.560]  government, if maybe that's an applicable statement.
[04:37.560 --> 04:42.520]  But tell me a little bit about your background. Was there maybe like a moment that really set all of
[04:42.520 --> 04:45.080]  this off? Did none of it ever make sense?
[04:45.360 --> 04:49.240]  What was sort of that catalyst of, I need to look into this and figure out what the hell is going on?
[04:50.840 --> 04:58.080]  There was a moment. There was a moment when back in California, I owned a couple of different
[04:58.080 --> 05:03.440]  companies and I went to the bank one day and as I walked up to the teller window, the teller who I knew
[05:03.440 --> 05:08.280]  well, she started crying and she said, I had to do it.
[05:09.000 --> 05:14.640]  Do what? And she said, give thirty two thousand dollars to the IRS out of my payroll account.
[05:14.960 --> 05:17.800]  Well, I didn't. We're talking back in the 90s.
[05:17.800 --> 05:20.040]  So thirty two thousand dollars was real money back then.
[05:20.920 --> 05:24.600]  It was money I owed my workers. Right. So there's there's a moral component there.
[05:25.760 --> 05:30.480]  I didn't know anything about the IRS other than the three letters.
[05:30.760 --> 05:36.600]  Didn't want to know. I had an accountant on retainer and he had completely dropped the ball.
[05:37.760 --> 05:43.160]  But aside from having to scrabble to come up with the money to honor my commitments to the men who
[05:43.160 --> 05:48.280]  worked for me, aside from that, I was having dinner a couple of nights later with some friends and I
[05:49.400 --> 05:51.200]  I was telling them about it.
[05:51.240 --> 05:58.160]  And I said, I have a I'm having difficulty understanding this because having come from a law
[05:58.160 --> 06:02.560]  enforcement background, I understand the limitations on the government on seizing property.
[06:03.320 --> 06:08.000]  And back then, things like asset for Fisher didn't even exist.
[06:08.000 --> 06:11.760]  Right. So basically it was if you want to see something, you need to have a court order.
[06:12.440 --> 06:17.600]  Simple. And yet I said, it appears what happened here was somebody over at the IRS pulled a
[06:17.600 --> 06:22.240]  form out of the desk, put their signature on it, went to a supervisor, got a counter sign,
[06:22.720 --> 06:25.040]  tore the top sheet off, mailed it into the bank.
[06:26.000 --> 06:27.000]  Then the bank took my money.
[06:28.400 --> 06:34.000]  And, you know, searches I made through the Constitution, there is no income tax exemption to
[06:34.000 --> 06:41.120]  the Fourth Amendment. So right there, you know, in law enforcement, you're aware of this, not even
[06:41.120 --> 06:42.880]  having to have been in law enforcement.
[06:43.400 --> 06:47.520]  If you want to see somebody's property, you have to go get a warrant.
[06:48.080 --> 06:51.880]  Right. But yet that didn't happen here.
[06:51.880 --> 06:54.840]  So I'm telling some friends about this at dinner and they start laughing.
[06:56.040 --> 06:59.440]  I'm like, OK, I'm not sure laughter is the appropriate response.
[06:59.680 --> 07:02.920]  They said, you'd be laughing if you knew what we knew.
[07:04.000 --> 07:05.800]  You know, like, tell me.
[07:06.200 --> 07:09.760]  So they started to tell me that the income tax is not what the average American believes it to be.
[07:09.760 --> 07:13.640]  And yada yada. And they said, we're not going to tell you anything more.
[07:13.640 --> 07:17.600]  They gave me a rough outline. We're not going to tell you any more because we tell people and
[07:17.600 --> 07:21.960]  people don't care and they don't listen, which 30 years later, I can confirm that that is
[07:21.960 --> 07:24.920]  true. They said, but we're going to give you the name of two books.
[07:24.920 --> 07:29.160]  If you go buy these books and read them and come back to us, then we'll tell you more.
[07:29.800 --> 07:33.880]  So that was that was the moment and I did the next day.
[07:34.160 --> 07:38.520]  There was no Internet back then. So the next day I got on the phone to these the sources for these
[07:38.520 --> 07:41.320]  books and I gave him a credit card number and I had the book shipped to me.
[07:42.000 --> 07:47.480]  And that was the moment that I decided I need to look into this.
[07:47.640 --> 07:52.880]  And I did not at that time buy into everything they told, although I knew they were honest,
[07:53.000 --> 07:54.440]  honest people can be mistaken. Right.
[07:55.920 --> 07:57.880]  So I didn't necessarily buy into the whole thing.
[07:58.520 --> 08:00.520]  And so I started to do my research.
[08:00.560 --> 08:04.880]  And the more I researched, the more it looked like what they had told me was factual.
[08:05.400 --> 08:11.960]  And I think the final distilling moment for me was I confronted my accountant and he got a
[08:11.960 --> 08:16.120]  little upset. He said he was going to send me to see a tax attorney upstairs.
[08:16.600 --> 08:20.000]  So he did. He called up there and the tax attorney said he could see me.
[08:20.040 --> 08:22.120]  So I walked up. His name was John Barlow.
[08:22.160 --> 08:28.800]  Nice guy sat down in his gorgeous office with this desk that went on for miles and very
[08:28.800 --> 08:30.000]  successful tax attorney.
[08:31.160 --> 08:33.880]  And I and he said, what can I do for you?
[08:35.160 --> 08:42.960]  And I said, does everyone who earns do all American citizens living and working in the 50
[08:42.960 --> 08:49.000]  states who earn a living, do they owe the IRS anything?
[08:51.000 --> 08:55.960]  And he sat there for probably a minute just staring at me, which between strangers, that's a
[08:55.960 --> 09:00.400]  long time. And then he chose his words very carefully.
[09:00.400 --> 09:07.360]  And he said, I only work with people who owe income tax.
[09:08.480 --> 09:18.000]  And in that moment, Chris, because he had so carefully considered his answer, I knew that at
[09:18.320 --> 09:22.720]  least the outline of what I'd been told was factual.
[09:23.280 --> 09:27.760]  And then I spent the next 17 years doing all the in-depth research before I wrote income tax
[09:27.760 --> 09:32.480]  shattering the mess. And the broad outline they gave me was indeed factual.
[09:33.960 --> 09:40.120]  One thing I realized over time over those 17 years of research was that if my fellow citizens
[09:40.120 --> 09:43.840]  were going to have to put in 17 years of research, the message was going to die in the
[09:43.840 --> 09:50.480]  vine. And the purpose of writing income tax shattering the mess was because there was at
[09:50.480 --> 09:55.880]  the time I conceived writing it, there was no single compendium, complete, thorough
[09:55.880 --> 10:01.800]  compendium that people could go to and find out everything they needed to know about
[10:01.800 --> 10:03.360]  whether the government is bullshitting them or not.
[10:03.880 --> 10:05.160]  That didn't exist.
[10:06.080 --> 10:09.880]  That was the reason I wrote income tax shattering the mess so that my fellow citizens,
[10:09.880 --> 10:13.400]  instead of doing 17 years of research, they could read a single book.
[10:13.880 --> 10:16.120]  And know where they stand definitively.
[10:16.120 --> 10:22.440]  You've read it. So I'm sure you understand the mindset people have when they close that
[10:22.440 --> 10:23.040]  final page.
[10:25.920 --> 10:27.880]  Now, you published in 08, right?
[10:27.880 --> 10:29.520]  That was the release of the book, right?
[10:29.800 --> 10:30.800]  2007, 2008.
[10:30.840 --> 10:33.840]  That's when it doesn't count.
[10:34.520 --> 10:39.720]  So a lot's changed since the Internet's been around, right?
[10:39.720 --> 10:42.320]  I mean, the Internet, late 90s, early 2000s.
[10:42.320 --> 10:45.920]  I mean, obviously, you've got all the information in the world in the palm of your hand.
[10:47.360 --> 10:48.360]  Why?
[10:48.920 --> 10:54.760]  What is keeping the average American from doing this research, from going and doing this
[10:54.760 --> 10:55.840]  homework on their own?
[10:55.840 --> 10:59.920]  Why can't just the average Joe Schmoe layman figure this stuff out?
[10:59.920 --> 11:04.840]  Why? Why do I need a book or why do I need to look through 17 years of research if it's
[11:04.840 --> 11:07.200]  really easy? What's my next step?
[11:07.200 --> 11:08.120]  How do I determine this?
[11:08.160 --> 11:12.320]  First of all, first of all, let me say I would never say it's really easy.
[11:12.320 --> 11:17.240]  Let me say that I would say I wrote Income Tax Shattering the Mist in a way that every
[11:17.240 --> 11:18.680]  single American can understand.
[11:18.680 --> 11:22.920]  That was one of my goals when I wrote the first word that every if the guy's got an
[11:22.920 --> 11:27.000]  IQ above 60, my goal was that when he got through the book, he would understand the
[11:27.000 --> 11:31.040]  issue thoroughly. Now, I know people who've read the book three, four or five times
[11:31.240 --> 11:34.040]  because they tell me I want to memorize.
[11:34.040 --> 11:38.320]  I want to know off the top of my head, every single thing that's in that book.
[11:39.160 --> 11:42.520]  But that's different than just understanding the truth.
[11:43.400 --> 11:48.560]  And so in answer to your question, why can't people just go do the research for
[11:48.560 --> 11:50.120]  themselves? They can.
[11:50.440 --> 11:55.480]  And in the book, I encourage people not to believe anything I say, nothing, not a word
[11:55.960 --> 11:59.800]  to go out and do their own research, because as many people have commented in the
[11:59.800 --> 12:03.720]  reviews of the book, I bought it to prove Champion wrong and it turned out he's right.
[12:04.160 --> 12:08.120]  And they know that because they went out and did their own research to try and prove
[12:08.120 --> 12:09.120]  it wrong.
[12:11.200 --> 12:16.280]  But as far as doing their own, why people don't, I think it's a mixture of two
[12:16.280 --> 12:19.480]  things, fear and indifference.
[12:19.920 --> 12:22.720]  And sometimes those are combined, sometimes they're not.
[12:23.640 --> 12:28.400]  I think so many Americans today, I mean, the government's massive and successful
[12:28.400 --> 12:30.800]  disinformation campaign has been going on about 60 years.
[12:31.120 --> 12:35.760]  So most people, it's sort of like being born into the matrix from the movie.
[12:36.080 --> 12:40.760]  OK, most people are born into the matrix in the sense that from the moment they were
[12:40.760 --> 12:45.960]  old enough to understand what the words income tax mean, they were told everybody
[12:45.960 --> 12:47.920]  owes it. And that's the end of the story.
[12:47.920 --> 12:49.360]  And don't ever question that.
[12:49.360 --> 12:50.560]  That's the universal truth.
[12:51.680 --> 12:57.280]  And, you know, we all hear the stories about people who get in trouble and all of
[12:57.280 --> 13:03.120]  them. And I think there's a great many people in, ironically, in a land of liberty
[13:03.760 --> 13:06.080]  who are just too afraid to even look.
[13:06.880 --> 13:11.760]  And then I think some are so inured to being wage slaves
[13:13.080 --> 13:17.120]  that they're indifferent. They've grown up their whole life giving away eight percent,
[13:17.120 --> 13:21.960]  ten percent, thirteen percent, twenty percent of their property to the government
[13:21.960 --> 13:25.560]  based on their ignorance and disinformation from the government.
[13:25.880 --> 13:28.280]  They're just indifferent.
[13:28.280 --> 13:33.120]  And, you know, from my background, when I first started to learn the truth and, you
[13:33.120 --> 13:34.920]  know, I don't judge people and how they view things.
[13:34.920 --> 13:39.000]  But from my point of view, I was like, hell no.
[13:39.440 --> 13:41.320]  The government is our servant.
[13:41.800 --> 13:46.440]  I am never going to lay down and let them steal from me because they've engaged in
[13:46.440 --> 13:48.800]  disinformation and I was ignorant. Fine.
[13:48.800 --> 13:51.880]  I was ignorant. We're all in our lives ignorant on a bunch of things.
[13:51.880 --> 13:53.760]  And then we choose not to be ignorant anymore.
[13:54.080 --> 13:55.800]  Well, once I was no longer ignorant.
[13:57.800 --> 14:00.400]  Can I can I put this into the view?
[14:00.400 --> 14:03.080]  I mean, that was what I was.
[14:03.080 --> 14:05.280]  That was what I had to say to the government at that point.
[14:05.280 --> 14:08.080]  It's like, you know, it and I'll tell you the truth, Chris,
[14:08.080 --> 14:11.680]  it wasn't really that they'd scam me out of some money because I was ignorant.
[14:13.520 --> 14:16.480]  The problem for me
[14:16.480 --> 14:21.280]  was they were knowingly, willfully and intentionally
[14:22.000 --> 14:28.280]  scamming roughly 100 million American citizens and.
[14:29.440 --> 14:32.520]  However many businesses are behind that tens of millions,
[14:32.520 --> 14:35.880]  hundreds of millions of businesses, it is an absolute scam.
[14:35.880 --> 14:38.080]  But more importantly than that, it's a scam.
[14:38.880 --> 14:41.280]  The people at the top of the tax pyramid,
[14:42.440 --> 14:45.480]  they know everything that's an income tax shattering the mess.
[14:46.600 --> 14:49.640]  It's not like I wrote something in the secretary of the Treasury.
[14:49.880 --> 14:52.400]  Well, golly gee whiz.
[14:52.400 --> 14:54.520]  Not like that. They already know.
[14:55.440 --> 14:56.480]  And they're doing it.
[14:56.480 --> 14:59.560]  They're they're committing the largest financial crime in world history
[14:59.800 --> 15:02.760]  because they want the money, period, full stop.
[15:02.760 --> 15:05.240]  And they don't care about the moral or legal implications
[15:05.520 --> 15:08.400]  or the fact that they're trying to create a slave mentality
[15:08.400 --> 15:12.080]  in the American people through disinformation.
[15:13.640 --> 15:14.640]  A lot of great stuff there.
[15:14.640 --> 15:17.840]  I would say it's interesting you bring in like the Matrix and things like that.
[15:17.840 --> 15:20.280]  So the title of the channel is The Unplugged Alpha, right?
[15:20.280 --> 15:23.560]  We talk a lot about unplugging from comfortable lies
[15:23.560 --> 15:26.280]  and having to digest cold, hard, uncomfortable truth.
[15:26.280 --> 15:30.400]  And that's yeah, it's interesting how those analogies sort of line up.
[15:30.400 --> 15:34.520]  But what about the 16th Amendment?
[15:34.640 --> 15:36.280]  That gets brought up a lot, right?
[15:36.280 --> 15:40.400]  I don't know the exact verbiage, but Congress has the power to levy
[15:40.400 --> 15:43.840]  and impose taxes for what they see fit.
[15:44.200 --> 15:49.120]  You know, didn't that didn't a hundred years ago or 110 years ago
[15:49.120 --> 15:51.400]  when that get written, didn't that solve all the problems?
[15:51.400 --> 15:53.680]  I mean, that did that that imposed federal income tax.
[15:53.680 --> 15:56.280]  That's pretty open and shut, though.
[15:56.280 --> 15:56.840]  Well, I don't know.
[15:56.840 --> 15:59.520]  But that it solved all the problems because I don't know
[15:59.520 --> 16:01.880]  what people think those problems are.
[16:01.880 --> 16:04.480]  It did solve a problem.
[16:04.480 --> 16:09.200]  And the problem that solved was the Pollock case from 1895.
[16:09.240 --> 16:12.160]  The U.S. Supreme Court
[16:12.160 --> 16:15.920]  issued an incorrect decision.
[16:15.920 --> 16:19.280]  The court, as constituted at that time, the nine justices on the court,
[16:19.720 --> 16:23.560]  the majority misunderstood what the Constitution said
[16:23.840 --> 16:26.480]  about direct and indirect taxes.
[16:26.480 --> 16:30.600]  And so the 16th Amendment,
[16:32.040 --> 16:34.760]  what it did, according to the Supreme Court, not according to me,
[16:35.640 --> 16:39.520]  what it did was it corrected the Pollock decision from 1895.
[16:40.520 --> 16:44.360]  And I think it's important because what they teach in school,
[16:44.360 --> 16:47.000]  which is a complete falsehood, but go figure that the government
[16:47.200 --> 16:49.480]  would teach you something that's wrong.
[16:50.480 --> 16:52.320]  The 16th Amendment,
[16:53.320 --> 16:58.640]  the government narrative is that it authorized an income tax.
[16:58.840 --> 17:02.600]  And what people hear in their heads, what Americans hear in their head
[17:02.600 --> 17:05.680]  when they hear that phrase authorized an income tax
[17:06.200 --> 17:10.000]  is that it permitted the United States government to tax your labor.
[17:10.400 --> 17:11.600]  That's what they hear.
[17:11.600 --> 17:16.760]  But, of course, for those who imagine
[17:16.760 --> 17:21.120]  and they would be correct that the Congress did not have the authority
[17:21.120 --> 17:25.920]  to tax our labor before the 16th Amendment, the Supreme Court has said
[17:26.360 --> 17:29.800]  in its decisions, because there was a series of decisions
[17:29.800 --> 17:32.680]  concerning the 16th Amendment in the years after.
[17:33.320 --> 17:36.760]  And the Supreme Court said that the 16th Amendment
[17:36.760 --> 17:42.800]  granted Congress no new powers of taxation.
[17:43.800 --> 17:47.320]  In other words, if something was not within Congress's authority
[17:47.320 --> 17:51.760]  to tax before the 16th Amendment, it was not within Congress's authority
[17:51.760 --> 17:55.000]  to tax after the 16th Amendment, which would be your labor.
[17:56.000 --> 17:58.240]  What the 16th Amendment did, and I'm not going to go into it
[17:58.240 --> 18:01.320]  because it's a little too nuanced and complex for people
[18:01.320 --> 18:04.360]  who haven't read the book to understand, but essentially what it did
[18:04.360 --> 18:08.120]  is it took a misunderstanding of when something is considered
[18:08.120 --> 18:11.000]  an excise tax or when something is considered a direct tax.
[18:11.880 --> 18:13.480]  The Pollock decision got it wrong.
[18:13.480 --> 18:15.640]  The 16th Amendment corrected it. Simple as that.
[18:15.640 --> 18:19.560]  But it did not authorize a tax on the labor of the American worker.
[18:20.440 --> 18:21.760]  Can you go a little more in depth?
[18:21.760 --> 18:24.360]  So says the court, not me.
[18:24.360 --> 18:26.080]  Can you go a little more in depth?
[18:26.080 --> 18:31.000]  Direct tax, indirect tax, excise tax, sort of how for folks
[18:31.000 --> 18:32.400]  watching at home?
[18:32.400 --> 18:34.240]  Sure. I'll try to do it quickly.
[18:34.240 --> 18:36.360]  It's a rather complex subject, but I'll try and truncate it.
[18:36.960 --> 18:39.280]  The Constitution
[18:39.280 --> 18:44.040]  speaks of what the Supreme Court has called the two broad tax classes,
[18:44.320 --> 18:48.040]  one being indirect tax and the other being direct tax.
[18:48.720 --> 18:52.600]  In the court, the Constitution in the category of indirect taxes
[18:52.600 --> 18:58.240]  are excises, tariffs and imposes.
[18:58.760 --> 19:01.520]  And then on the direct side, there's just direct tax.
[19:02.240 --> 19:05.520]  So the direct tax was
[19:06.720 --> 19:11.080]  again, according to the Supreme Court, was upon slaves and land.
[19:11.400 --> 19:14.960]  And what a direct tax means under the Constitution
[19:15.360 --> 19:19.960]  is that when Congress levies a tax, it has to be apportioned among the states.
[19:19.960 --> 19:22.120]  Now, I think it's important to say there's never Congress
[19:22.120 --> 19:23.280]  never passed a direct tax.
[19:23.280 --> 19:25.440]  So we don't know how that apportionment would really work,
[19:26.400 --> 19:29.560]  whether they would come after Chris and Dave independently
[19:30.240 --> 19:32.160]  or whether they would go out to the states.
[19:32.160 --> 19:33.000]  This is more likely.
[19:33.000 --> 19:34.880]  They'd go out to the states and said, here's your share.
[19:34.880 --> 19:37.040]  Go collect it from from your residence.
[19:38.360 --> 19:43.640]  But the bottom line is that it would be far more equitable.
[19:43.640 --> 19:47.280]  And according to the United States Supreme Court in its Bruce Shaver ruling,
[19:47.760 --> 19:51.640]  it said that the reason for apportionment on direct taxes
[19:51.680 --> 19:56.400]  was so that the so Congress, via taxing legislation,
[19:56.920 --> 20:03.480]  could not burden the accumulation of property, real and personal.
[20:04.040 --> 20:07.800]  The way we would say that today in modern language would be
[20:08.160 --> 20:12.880]  so that Congress in its legislation cannot burden the accumulation of wealth.
[20:15.040 --> 20:19.480]  The old communist viewpoint that if you make more, you should pay more in taxes.
[20:19.880 --> 20:25.000]  The founding fathers, the reason that they did apportionment on direct taxes
[20:25.280 --> 20:29.760]  was to prevent that, that the wealthy have just as much right of property
[20:30.240 --> 20:32.040]  as do poor people.
[20:32.040 --> 20:37.040]  And so Congress did not have the power to go after their wealth
[20:38.400 --> 20:41.800]  and tear their wealth down so that Congress can have more money.
[20:41.840 --> 20:47.360]  Now, on the indirect side, the only one of impose duties and exercise,
[20:47.360 --> 20:50.080]  the only one that's relevant to our discussion tonight is an exercise
[20:50.400 --> 20:54.240]  because the Supreme Court has stated that the income tax is an excise tax.
[20:54.240 --> 20:56.720]  OK, so what's an excise tax?
[20:56.720 --> 20:59.560]  According to the federal courts, again, not to me, an excise tax
[20:59.560 --> 21:02.240]  is a tax on a government granted privilege. So
[21:03.440 --> 21:06.800]  when you go out in the morning and you get up in the morning,
[21:06.800 --> 21:08.720]  you have a cup of coffee, you get the kids off to school
[21:08.720 --> 21:11.600]  and you go on to work and you do whatever it is you do for a living
[21:11.600 --> 21:15.840]  and you collect some pay in the United States, that's not a privilege.
[21:16.400 --> 21:18.920]  According to, again, US Supreme Court, you're going to hear me say this a lot.
[21:18.920 --> 21:21.400]  According to the United States Supreme Court, not me.
[21:21.400 --> 21:23.480]  Earning a living is a constitutionally protected right.
[21:23.600 --> 21:26.840]  And of course, we all know, I think we at least we should all know
[21:27.440 --> 21:30.400]  that you cannot tax a right in the United States.
[21:30.800 --> 21:33.040]  Rights are not taxable because if you could tax them,
[21:33.040 --> 21:36.360]  you could tax the right out of existence. That's the logic. OK.
[21:36.720 --> 21:38.960]  So in other words, free speech is a great example.
[21:39.160 --> 21:42.880]  If you want to charge me five dollars to exercise free speech on this show,
[21:43.720 --> 21:48.000]  all right. If it got to be fifty dollars, hmm,
[21:48.440 --> 21:52.840]  if it got to be five hundred dollars, whoa, if it got to be fifty thousand dollars,
[21:52.840 --> 21:55.000]  I would no longer be able to exercise free speech.
[21:55.440 --> 21:59.160]  So that is the concept of why rights cannot be taxed.
[22:00.040 --> 22:04.160]  So the Supreme Court has said that when you work to earn a living,
[22:04.160 --> 22:06.680]  that's a constitutionally protected right,
[22:06.680 --> 22:09.520]  actually an unalienable right from that existed
[22:09.520 --> 22:12.040]  antecedent to the formation of the states of the federal government.
[22:12.360 --> 22:14.280]  The right of contract is the same.
[22:14.280 --> 22:17.320]  And that right of contract is whether you're contracting your labor out
[22:17.320 --> 22:19.320]  or you're contracting the labor of others.
[22:19.320 --> 22:22.200]  All these things are are unalienable rights that exist
[22:22.200 --> 22:24.720]  and antecedent to the formation of the states and the federal government.
[22:24.720 --> 22:27.080]  And according to the Supreme Court, because of that,
[22:27.080 --> 22:30.960]  the government cannot modify or abolish those rights.
[22:31.360 --> 22:35.280]  So we say, OK, we have a right to go out and earn a living. Great.
[22:36.600 --> 22:40.400]  So the way we earn our living is by labor, by our labor.
[22:40.880 --> 22:45.360]  OK, whether we're whether we're a stock trader, that's still your work, right?
[22:45.360 --> 22:49.280]  You're still exercising your labor here and your labor on the keyboard
[22:49.280 --> 22:52.080]  of the house or however you're doing. That is still your labor.
[22:52.640 --> 22:54.840]  Whether you're digging ditches, it's still your labor.
[22:55.280 --> 23:02.200]  And according to the Supreme Court, the United States Congress
[23:02.680 --> 23:07.800]  did not the 16th Amendment granted Congress no new powers of taxation.
[23:07.800 --> 23:11.080]  And we know the Congress pre 16th Amendment
[23:11.080 --> 23:15.240]  did not have the authority, the power to tax labor.
[23:15.520 --> 23:18.720]  So if according to the Supreme Court, the 16th Amendment
[23:18.720 --> 23:23.160]  did not grant the government any new taxing power, they still cannot tax your labor.
[23:25.120 --> 23:29.200]  And so this excise tax that is a privileged excise tax
[23:29.440 --> 23:33.960]  equals income tax equals tax upon a government granted privilege.
[23:34.160 --> 23:36.200]  When you go to work, there's no government granted privilege.
[23:37.000 --> 23:39.200]  So what are they taxing? They're not.
[23:40.280 --> 23:42.960]  But of course, people are conditioned, as we talked about earlier,
[23:42.960 --> 23:46.120]  people are conditioned, you know, since they were that big that,
[23:46.120 --> 23:47.720]  oh, yeah, it applies to everybody.
[23:47.720 --> 23:49.600]  If you earn money, you have to give the federal government
[23:49.600 --> 23:51.240]  some in the form of income tax.
[23:51.240 --> 23:53.320]  Well, OK, you're socialized.
[23:53.320 --> 23:56.680]  Perhaps we might even apply the word brainwash, but that simply isn't factual.
[23:58.240 --> 24:01.080]  And by the way, I should mention I haven't filed or paid in 30 years.
[24:01.640 --> 24:04.280]  And people who've read income tax shattering the mist,
[24:04.280 --> 24:06.680]  I get people contacting me all the time that bought it
[24:06.680 --> 24:10.120]  like when it first came out, like I haven't paid income tax since I read that book.
[24:11.440 --> 24:14.600]  Because there's no question mark by the time they get they close
[24:14.600 --> 24:16.600]  that the final cover, the back cover.
[24:16.600 --> 24:21.480]  There's no question mark in their mind about what the law really is.
[24:23.320 --> 24:26.200]  That being the case.
[24:26.200 --> 24:31.240]  Why are people like what causes somebody to go to jail for tax evasion or tax fraud?
[24:31.400 --> 24:35.400]  What what mistakes are they making in the process?
[24:35.400 --> 24:38.160]  If this doesn't apply to them, then why not just put a hand up and say, hey,
[24:38.160 --> 24:40.400]  that's not for me. How are you guys?
[24:40.400 --> 24:43.240]  What am I getting slapped with for? Excellent question.
[24:43.720 --> 24:45.280]  OK, so let's start with this.
[24:45.280 --> 24:49.640]  Probably 99.9 percent of people who are prosecuted for various income tax crimes,
[24:50.240 --> 24:52.760]  whether it's tax evasion, whether it's willful failure to file
[24:52.760 --> 24:56.120]  or any of the other sundry income tax crimes.
[24:56.960 --> 24:59.320]  Ninety nine point nine percent of the people who are prosecuted,
[24:59.320 --> 25:03.040]  they believe they owe the tax and they just cheat it.
[25:03.160 --> 25:05.960]  OK, and they got caught. It's as simple as that.
[25:05.960 --> 25:09.960]  If you think you owe the income tax and so you cheated
[25:10.440 --> 25:13.440]  and then they catch you cheating, you really don't have a defense
[25:13.600 --> 25:15.960]  because you think you owe the tax.
[25:15.960 --> 25:17.160]  What are you going to say?
[25:17.160 --> 25:21.160]  Yeah. Now, my case, I said I haven't filed or paid in 30 years
[25:21.160 --> 25:24.800]  and nobody's accusing me of willful failure to file or tax evasion or anything else.
[25:25.320 --> 25:27.400]  And here's the reason.
[25:27.400 --> 25:30.200]  For people who know the truth.
[25:30.200 --> 25:34.680]  And I have to admit, I'm fortunate that the light bulb went on for me
[25:34.680 --> 25:39.240]  in this regard while it did not go on for some others.
[25:39.360 --> 25:41.200]  And they got in trouble by that, by others.
[25:41.200 --> 25:44.360]  I mean, people who understand the broad strokes
[25:44.360 --> 25:48.400]  that the American people don't know income tax, but they didn't.
[25:49.320 --> 25:51.560]  The light bulb didn't go on in terms of what I'm about to say.
[25:51.920 --> 25:55.160]  I understood probably within a year of starting my research.
[25:55.160 --> 25:57.680]  So we'd be talking somewhere in the range of 1994.
[25:58.160 --> 26:02.800]  I understood that the income tax is a form, a form based
[26:04.840 --> 26:07.920]  type of law. Everything functions off of forms.
[26:08.600 --> 26:11.480]  And one of the things that I realized early on was that, for instance,
[26:11.480 --> 26:15.320]  if you work for yourself and somebody says, hey, you know, you did great work.
[26:15.320 --> 26:18.880]  I want to cut you a check, but I need you to fill out this W-9, OK?
[26:19.880 --> 26:23.800]  That W-9 is where you're saying
[26:24.360 --> 26:26.560]  to the person who's cutting you the check.
[26:27.160 --> 26:31.520]  You're saying to that person under penalty of perjury,
[26:31.520 --> 26:34.920]  because that's what it says at the bottom where you sign it.
[26:34.920 --> 26:39.240]  You're saying I and I know the listeners who've not read
[26:39.240 --> 26:41.400]  there, your people who are watching who have not read income tax
[26:41.400 --> 26:44.520]  out of the mist are going to be screaming at their computers.
[26:44.520 --> 26:46.400]  That's not true.
[26:46.400 --> 26:49.200]  When I say this, and it is true when you read the book, you'll go, oh, yeah,
[26:49.200 --> 26:50.440]  it's true. He was right.
[26:50.440 --> 26:53.280]  OK, so when you sign a W-9 as an example,
[26:53.480 --> 26:55.960]  what you're attesting to under penalty of perjury
[26:56.480 --> 27:02.280]  is that you are a U.S. citizen or a U.S. company
[27:03.440 --> 27:07.600]  and that you are receiving U.S. source income
[27:08.520 --> 27:12.760]  that belongs to a foreign person or a foreign corporation.
[27:13.040 --> 27:18.520]  And you're acting as the intermediary between the source of the income,
[27:18.560 --> 27:21.120]  the guy cutting the check,
[27:21.120 --> 27:23.880]  and the non-resident alien or foreign corporation.
[27:24.280 --> 27:26.920]  What you're saying when you sign the W-9 is I'm the guy in the middle.
[27:26.920 --> 27:29.400]  I'm the middleman. OK?
[27:29.400 --> 27:33.400]  And that means you just receive money that is quite properly
[27:33.400 --> 27:35.840]  subject to income tax because it doesn't belong to you.
[27:36.160 --> 27:37.440]  It's U.S. source income.
[27:37.440 --> 27:39.520]  We talked about one of the three classes earlier.
[27:39.720 --> 27:42.000]  It's U.S. source income belonging to a non-resident alien.
[27:42.760 --> 27:46.760]  And then at the end of the year, and this is when you talk about being prosecuted,
[27:46.920 --> 27:50.560]  this is either sad or funny.
[27:50.680 --> 27:52.640]  But what happens is the government comes along and says,
[27:52.640 --> 27:53.840]  you didn't file a tax return.
[27:53.840 --> 27:55.440]  We think you did this with criminal intent.
[27:55.440 --> 27:58.880]  So we're going to put you on trial for willful failure to file.
[28:00.080 --> 28:03.280]  And the poor dumb schmuck who never read income tax
[28:03.280 --> 28:07.320]  shattered in the mist actually thinks they're being prosecuted
[28:07.800 --> 28:10.840]  for their own money earning a living.
[28:11.200 --> 28:13.240]  That's what they think they're being prosecuted for.
[28:13.240 --> 28:16.640]  So they have no good defense because what they don't understand
[28:17.360 --> 28:21.680]  and the prosecutors do understand is that they're being prosecuted
[28:21.680 --> 28:25.000]  because the law requires them.
[28:26.360 --> 28:30.880]  If the non-resident alien owner of the property didn't file a tax return,
[28:32.400 --> 28:36.400]  then the person who received the payment on their behalf
[28:36.400 --> 28:40.280]  must file a tax return and pay the non-resident alien's tax.
[28:41.200 --> 28:45.240]  So when they say, oh, you willfully fail to file,
[28:45.480 --> 28:51.120]  they're saying is you willfully failed to file for the non-resident alien's tax
[28:51.240 --> 28:53.400]  because he didn't file.
[28:54.680 --> 28:58.440]  How do you defend yourself when those two,
[28:58.440 --> 29:01.400]  they don't understand the difference, so they can't put on a defense.
[29:03.640 --> 29:07.520]  But the form thing, same thing with W-4 when you go to work for somebody else.
[29:07.520 --> 29:09.520]  OK, and again, people haven't read the book.
[29:09.520 --> 29:11.120]  You're going to be screaming at their computer.
[29:11.120 --> 29:13.840]  That's the first thing they do right on day one or day two.
[29:13.840 --> 29:15.600]  They say, hey, I need you to fill out this form.
[29:15.600 --> 29:19.160]  I need you to say you're exempt or if you're withholding or, you know,
[29:19.160 --> 29:21.480]  they said that you got to fill this out.
[29:21.480 --> 29:24.000]  And, you know, people are confused.
[29:24.000 --> 29:26.840]  I always I often say and people who've been in this
[29:27.520 --> 29:30.880]  this field for many, many, many years always laugh when I say it.
[29:31.160 --> 29:34.760]  And it's what what what's on IRS forms or letters is not what they mean.
[29:35.480 --> 29:38.920]  For instance, the IRS sends out a letter if they think somebody owes income tax.
[29:39.880 --> 29:42.920]  Used to be called a CP 515, but they change the numbers all the time.
[29:43.400 --> 29:46.880]  What it says on the letter is we believe you owe us taxes.
[29:46.880 --> 29:48.440]  Where's your 1040?
[29:49.440 --> 29:52.200]  What it means is, but it doesn't say this anywhere.
[29:53.920 --> 29:59.480]  This is your constitutionally required opportunity of due process.
[29:59.720 --> 30:02.040]  So if we have the facts wrong, correct us.
[30:03.080 --> 30:04.480]  That's what it is.
[30:04.480 --> 30:06.720]  But it doesn't say that it says, where's your 1040?
[30:06.720 --> 30:09.120]  OK, well, the same thing is true of the W-9.
[30:09.320 --> 30:13.040]  It doesn't say anywhere on there, you're receiving income
[30:13.040 --> 30:14.880]  that belongs to a nonresident alien.
[30:14.880 --> 30:15.920]  It doesn't say that.
[30:15.920 --> 30:19.400]  That's what it means when you sign it under penalty of perjury W-4.
[30:20.200 --> 30:24.200]  When you sign it under penalty of perjury, you're saying
[30:25.080 --> 30:27.840]  I'm a nonresident alien
[30:28.120 --> 30:33.520]  who's receiving U.S. source income in the course of my being employed
[30:33.680 --> 30:36.320]  by a government agency or instrumentality
[30:36.320 --> 30:39.440]  that's under the exclusive legislative jurisdiction of Congress.
[30:40.240 --> 30:42.160]  That's quite a mouthful, yes?
[30:42.160 --> 30:42.920]  Indeed.
[30:44.360 --> 30:46.960]  But the people who are signing it don't understand that.
[30:46.960 --> 30:50.200]  And worse, I suppose, perhaps,
[30:50.720 --> 30:54.680]  is that all these companies across the United States, they don't know it either.
[30:55.840 --> 30:59.000]  And more disturbingly than that, they don't know
[30:59.760 --> 31:04.600]  is when the information, when you take the information and you say, here,
[31:04.720 --> 31:10.200]  look at it, they go, la, la, la, la, la, la.
[31:11.840 --> 31:16.760]  You can literally show them the law and they don't give a fuck.
[31:17.480 --> 31:19.680]  That's the problem.
[31:20.040 --> 31:22.320]  You told a couple of stories in the book about that.
[31:23.040 --> 31:25.480]  There's two stories that you mentioned about that.
[31:25.800 --> 31:28.800]  There was one, I think, that was, you know, you're on the phone
[31:28.800 --> 31:33.040]  with somebody from payroll and you kept asking them to quote the law
[31:33.080 --> 31:35.000]  and they couldn't do it and they wouldn't talk to you anymore.
[31:35.000 --> 31:37.480]  But then there was another one that was a little more in depth
[31:37.480 --> 31:41.240]  about you're representing or you're working with a CEO
[31:41.240 --> 31:43.520]  of a large multinational corporation.
[31:43.520 --> 31:46.160]  Can you go into that story a little bit more and just kind of give the folks
[31:46.160 --> 31:49.880]  maybe some real life application on how this played out?
[31:49.880 --> 31:50.560]  Sure.
[31:54.160 --> 31:55.880]  This gentleman was a personal friend of mine.
[31:55.880 --> 31:57.800]  He is still to this day a personal friend of mine.
[31:58.320 --> 32:00.840]  He is I'm not going to name any names,
[32:00.840 --> 32:04.840]  but he is a notable special operator from the U.S. military.
[32:06.200 --> 32:12.720]  And many people, if I said his name, they'd go, oh, my God, I know who he is.
[32:13.800 --> 32:17.360]  But when he left the military, he went to work for a military training company.
[32:18.160 --> 32:21.240]  Actually, he started he he was the one who started it.
[32:21.880 --> 32:25.320]  And the financing for this enterprise, because this was post 9 11.
[32:25.320 --> 32:28.280]  And of course, the government was pouring money into this kind of thing.
[32:29.280 --> 32:32.640]  And so three of the wealthiest people,
[32:32.640 --> 32:37.320]  three of the wealthiest men on Wall Street were the guys funding this company
[32:37.320 --> 32:39.840]  because they wanted all the government money.
[32:39.840 --> 32:42.080]  They had the connections to get it.
[32:42.080 --> 32:45.760]  So my friend, who was the CEO,
[32:45.760 --> 32:48.800]  he he knew everything that people who've read income tax
[32:48.800 --> 32:50.440]  shattering the mess know.
[32:50.440 --> 32:52.840]  So he said, I won't be signing a W-4
[32:52.840 --> 32:55.640]  and you won't be taking any money out of my paycheck.
[32:56.640 --> 33:01.920]  And so these three incredibly well, three of the wealthiest men in America,
[33:01.920 --> 33:05.320]  by the way, they sort of had their man,
[33:05.320 --> 33:09.600]  a guy who handled these sorts of problems when they cropped up.
[33:10.320 --> 33:16.280]  So the gentleman, the CEO and this gentleman who worked for them,
[33:16.720 --> 33:18.440]  the three of us got on the phone
[33:19.680 --> 33:23.480]  and I took this gentleman who represented the three wealthy people.
[33:23.760 --> 33:26.120]  I took him through the law.
[33:26.840 --> 33:32.160]  And basically, his position was, I hear you.
[33:32.800 --> 33:34.320]  It all makes sense.
[33:34.320 --> 33:36.440]  You seem to have a command of the law.
[33:37.680 --> 33:43.120]  I don't necessarily know that that's going to matter.
[33:43.120 --> 33:46.240]  I will speak with my principals.
[33:46.240 --> 33:51.400]  So by the way, they had brought in.
[33:52.400 --> 33:56.720]  The person who at the time was considered the top accountant,
[33:56.720 --> 33:59.960]  no, tax attorney, excuse me, the top tax attorney in New York City,
[33:59.960 --> 34:01.920]  a city that's got a few tax attorneys, right?
[34:01.920 --> 34:05.360]  And she was considered the very top tax attorney.
[34:05.960 --> 34:11.400]  And this gentleman that represented the three wealthy people,
[34:11.720 --> 34:14.880]  he sat there on the phone and listened to she and I go at it.
[34:16.480 --> 34:20.760]  And she got her ass handed to her because she didn't know
[34:20.880 --> 34:23.320]  because she didn't know the law.
[34:23.320 --> 34:27.120]  And I know it's easy for me to sit here now and say she got her ass handed to me,
[34:27.120 --> 34:30.720]  but everyone who was on that call and her said that's what happened
[34:31.120 --> 34:33.600]  because she would say, well, it says this.
[34:34.480 --> 34:37.680]  And I would say, well, I know you think that,
[34:37.680 --> 34:39.640]  but here's what the U.S. Supreme Court has said.
[34:40.880 --> 34:42.960]  And that would blow what she was saying out of the water.
[34:42.960 --> 34:43.880]  And then she'd do it again.
[34:43.880 --> 34:45.280]  And I said, well, that's not what the U.S.
[34:45.280 --> 34:47.320]  Supreme Court has said. Here's what the court has said.
[34:47.560 --> 34:49.320]  So basically, she went down all these things.
[34:49.320 --> 34:52.480]  It's just common nonsense that attorneys are taught
[34:53.880 --> 34:56.240]  that are not supported in any way by the decisions of the U.S.
[34:56.240 --> 34:58.680]  Supreme Court. Sometimes they're not even what the statutes say.
[34:59.240 --> 35:01.680]  So at the end, she got her ass handed to her.
[35:01.720 --> 35:06.400]  And so the gentleman who was representing the three investors,
[35:07.720 --> 35:09.040]  he went back in my understanding.
[35:09.040 --> 35:10.240]  I wasn't on that call, of course.
[35:10.240 --> 35:13.800]  But my understanding is he told them that I claimed her clock
[35:13.800 --> 35:16.880]  and that the information that I presented
[35:17.040 --> 35:19.520]  was almost certainly true and valid.
[35:19.520 --> 35:23.360]  So what the three investors did is they went back to their CEO.
[35:23.960 --> 35:27.160]  They said they told point blank.
[35:27.640 --> 35:30.080]  We don't care what the law says.
[35:30.080 --> 35:31.880]  So what we're going to do is we're going to do it.
[35:31.880 --> 35:35.200]  We're going to we're going to tell you this is the bottom line.
[35:36.360 --> 35:38.240]  We're going to increase your salary
[35:38.240 --> 35:41.200]  30 percent to offset what's going to be taken out of your pay.
[35:41.240 --> 35:42.960]  You're going to sign a W-4.
[35:42.960 --> 35:46.000]  If you don't do that, you will no longer be CEO.
[35:47.160 --> 35:49.640]  They literally told him to his face,
[35:50.400 --> 35:53.640]  we don't care what the law says.
[35:56.280 --> 35:58.160]  After their man.
[35:58.480 --> 36:02.760]  Had watched the top tax attorney in New York City get her ass handed to her.
[36:04.760 --> 36:06.160]  Still didn't care.
[36:07.040 --> 36:08.800]  How American, huh?
[36:09.160 --> 36:11.760]  And what do you think? What's the result that what is that from?
[36:11.760 --> 36:13.880]  Is that just protecting the matrix?
[36:13.880 --> 36:16.720]  Is that just because there's there's there's a question here.
[36:16.720 --> 36:19.440]  There's a super chat that came in.
[36:19.440 --> 36:21.880]  You know, if this all this for true, why doesn't everyone adhere to this?
[36:21.880 --> 36:23.880]  And why don't they do this? This is mainstream.
[36:24.240 --> 36:26.840]  Is this just a willful ignorance?
[36:26.840 --> 36:30.480]  Is this just keeping the system alive from which people benefit?
[36:30.480 --> 36:33.960]  What's why do people so vitriolically defend this?
[36:34.960 --> 36:37.400]  I think it depends on who we're talking about, for instance.
[36:37.400 --> 36:39.880]  You know, if you're talking about, you know,
[36:39.880 --> 36:42.600]  Suzy Rodenkracht, she was in charge of accounting, accounting for,
[36:42.960 --> 36:45.160]  you know, a modest sized business.
[36:45.440 --> 36:47.080]  They're she's afraid.
[36:47.080 --> 36:49.200]  And the owner may be afraid, you know.
[36:50.120 --> 36:52.280]  I don't know if I've ever met a business owner
[36:52.280 --> 36:54.920]  who didn't say that they were afraid of the IRS. OK.
[36:56.400 --> 36:58.600]  I've met a lot of individuals who aren't afraid,
[36:58.600 --> 37:02.560]  but I don't know if I've ever met a business owner that wasn't afraid of the IRS,
[37:02.960 --> 37:05.160]  at least in what they share with me.
[37:05.160 --> 37:07.840]  So I think there's there's fear involved in that.
[37:07.840 --> 37:11.240]  And their fear drives them to say,
[37:12.800 --> 37:15.880]  you're right. I believe you.
[37:15.880 --> 37:17.920]  You can't hurt me.
[37:17.920 --> 37:19.760]  The government can.
[37:19.760 --> 37:23.080]  So I don't give a fuck whether you're right. OK.
[37:23.760 --> 37:27.160]  However, if we're talking about these three gentlemen in the situation
[37:27.160 --> 37:32.720]  with the CEO, they are they're part of the matrix.
[37:32.720 --> 37:36.720]  And I think their point of view was
[37:38.080 --> 37:40.920]  we we are this system.
[37:41.800 --> 37:46.600]  We're not going to go against this system because we are this system.
[37:47.200 --> 37:49.440]  And we're not. I think their point of view was
[37:51.040 --> 37:54.280]  the system may be committing the largest financial crime
[37:54.280 --> 37:56.280]  in the history of the world.
[37:56.280 --> 37:59.880]  And we say, yeah, because we're part of that.
[37:59.880 --> 38:05.400]  So they would obviously not be the people inclined to want to rock the boat.
[38:06.400 --> 38:10.240]  Right. Status quo is good for them.
[38:11.240 --> 38:14.840]  Yeah. If you if you're part if you're part of that whole system
[38:16.000 --> 38:19.360]  and you become billionaires operating in that system.
[38:21.160 --> 38:25.680]  I think human nature is it may be it may be immoral.
[38:25.680 --> 38:27.280]  It may be illegal.
[38:27.280 --> 38:31.480]  And we may be we may be right now, knowingly, willfully
[38:31.480 --> 38:33.360]  and intentionally violating the law.
[38:33.360 --> 38:34.840]  But we're billionaires.
[38:34.840 --> 38:37.240]  Who cares? No one's going to hurt us.
[38:38.800 --> 38:39.800]  And that's true.
[38:41.000 --> 38:43.520]  How often do you see billionaires
[38:43.520 --> 38:45.640]  get taken down by the average man?
[38:45.640 --> 38:47.480]  Yeah, very true.
[38:47.480 --> 38:49.400]  The average woman, maybe, I mean, look at Elon, but
[38:52.120 --> 38:54.120]  so you mentioned you've been filed in 30 years.
[38:54.120 --> 38:56.000]  You've been filed. You're very outspoken about this.
[38:56.000 --> 38:57.960]  You wrote a bestselling book about this.
[38:58.560 --> 39:03.040]  When's the last time you've got any correspondents from the IRS?
[39:03.040 --> 39:04.960]  So they know better and just leave you alone.
[39:04.960 --> 39:07.160]  There's better and bigger fish to fry out there.
[39:07.160 --> 39:12.800]  And then a part two to that is, you know, let's say I take these steps and say, OK,
[39:12.800 --> 39:14.800]  I'm going to exit this system.
[39:14.800 --> 39:18.960]  What can I expect as far as comms from the IRS and letters?
[39:18.960 --> 39:21.560]  You talk a bit about this in the book, like, here's some things to look out for.
[39:21.560 --> 39:23.720]  Here's the communications. They get more and more aggressive.
[39:23.720 --> 39:26.160]  So when's the last time you've had any correspondence?
[39:26.160 --> 39:27.640]  When's the last time you've had any correspondence?
[39:27.640 --> 39:30.120]  And then what would somebody experience in their first year,
[39:30.120 --> 39:32.800]  two, five years of exiting the system, so to speak?
[39:33.880 --> 39:37.160]  OK, so I want to clarify, first of all,
[39:37.160 --> 39:40.800]  that I am a different case than the average Joe. OK, sure.
[39:41.200 --> 39:43.800]  I'm obviously on their radar.
[39:44.680 --> 39:47.520]  So I've heard from them a couple of times over the last 30 years.
[39:47.880 --> 39:50.440]  I think the last time was about nine years ago, something like that.
[39:52.120 --> 39:54.400]  And it didn't go it didn't go anywhere.
[39:54.400 --> 39:58.960]  But. And I don't anticipate
[39:58.960 --> 40:01.560]  hearing from them again at this point, but I could be wrong.
[40:03.720 --> 40:07.800]  I will say I notice the interest of the average American
[40:09.080 --> 40:11.880]  concerning the truth of the income tax and living it out.
[40:12.120 --> 40:15.760]  I've noticed it growing over the last several years.
[40:16.400 --> 40:20.520]  So and I'm probably the most outspoken person in the country about it.
[40:20.520 --> 40:22.360]  So who knows?
[40:22.360 --> 40:26.840]  They may try something tomorrow, next month, next year, next decade.
[40:26.840 --> 40:29.280]  I don't know. But the law is the law.
[40:29.360 --> 40:31.920]  You know, the reason they've never attempted to criminally prosecute me
[40:31.920 --> 40:35.080]  is is they can't afford to take that loss.
[40:35.360 --> 40:38.080]  OK, which is exactly what would happen.
[40:38.080 --> 40:40.640]  The judge would dismiss the case based on a matter of law.
[40:41.280 --> 40:43.440]  And they can't.
[40:44.280 --> 40:46.880]  That would validate every single thing I've ever said.
[40:46.880 --> 40:48.960]  And the government would like everyone to believe
[40:48.960 --> 40:51.200]  I'm a crackpot, a conspiracy theorist and so forth.
[40:51.400 --> 40:53.800]  So go on to if people do
[40:54.400 --> 40:58.000]  what they understand they need to do to exit the system correctly
[40:58.000 --> 41:00.200]  after they read income tax shattering the mist.
[41:00.200 --> 41:02.720]  Those people are not going to be on the government's radar.
[41:02.720 --> 41:04.880]  Now, I will say this.
[41:06.120 --> 41:08.480]  We talked about the forms room, we talked about the W9,
[41:08.480 --> 41:09.840]  we talked about the W4.
[41:09.840 --> 41:13.400]  Of course, the W9 results at the end of the year and a 1099.
[41:13.400 --> 41:17.480]  Yes. And a W4 results at the end of the year with a W2.
[41:17.960 --> 41:20.320]  The W2 and the 1099
[41:20.320 --> 41:23.360]  create what is in a law called presumptive evidence.
[41:24.560 --> 41:25.640]  All of it's sworn.
[41:25.640 --> 41:28.520]  So it has that it has a certain legal validity,
[41:28.520 --> 41:31.560]  even though it's merely presumptive.
[41:31.560 --> 41:35.800]  So and can we get around presumptive conclusions?
[41:35.800 --> 41:39.160]  We can. The law allows us to get around that and correct the IRS.
[41:40.040 --> 41:42.200]  And there are some people who do very good work at doing that.
[41:42.720 --> 41:45.120]  However, the easiest and best way to do it
[41:45.480 --> 41:47.840]  is to not get a W2 at the end of the year
[41:47.840 --> 41:50.440]  and to not get 1099s at the end of the year,
[41:50.440 --> 41:55.320]  because absent those documents arriving at the IRS,
[41:56.120 --> 41:59.280]  the government does not open what they call a tax module
[41:59.280 --> 42:01.520]  in the computer for you for that year.
[42:01.520 --> 42:04.240]  No tax module, no contact.
[42:04.720 --> 42:09.320]  OK, so for instance, somebody, I don't know, let's say they're a carpenter
[42:09.440 --> 42:12.360]  and they build cabinets and custom things for people's home.
[42:12.800 --> 42:15.280]  They never give out a taxpayer identification number.
[42:15.280 --> 42:16.880]  They never fill out a W9.
[42:16.880 --> 42:18.760]  They never get a 1099.
[42:18.760 --> 42:20.520]  That person will never hear from the government
[42:20.520 --> 42:23.720]  because the government will never open a tax module in the computer about them
[42:24.080 --> 42:26.800]  because the government has not received these documents,
[42:27.120 --> 42:30.440]  which are presumptive evidence of liability.
[42:31.640 --> 42:34.000]  So that's obviously the easiest way.
[42:34.000 --> 42:38.120]  Now, let's say somebody works for a company and the owner says,
[42:38.160 --> 42:42.720]  well, you know, yeah, I read the withholding handbook that you gave me
[42:42.720 --> 42:47.680]  and sure, it was an eye opening read and, you know, it was it's very compelling.
[42:47.680 --> 42:51.320]  And I sympathize, but I just can't do it.
[42:51.560 --> 42:53.440]  OK, I'm sorry. You're probably right.
[42:53.440 --> 42:54.680]  I probably shouldn't.
[42:54.680 --> 42:56.520]  You shouldn't be required to fill out a W4.
[42:56.520 --> 43:00.200]  I shouldn't submit a W2 at the end of the year in your name.
[43:00.680 --> 43:02.520]  You're probably right about all that.
[43:02.520 --> 43:04.600]  But I'm sorry. I've made my decision.
[43:04.600 --> 43:07.000]  I'm going to keep sending the W2 in.
[43:07.000 --> 43:10.080]  So what's going to happen in that case is the IRS is going to get a W2
[43:10.600 --> 43:13.560]  and they have something called an information return matching program
[43:13.960 --> 43:17.600]  that looks for information returns, which is what a 1099
[43:17.600 --> 43:20.400]  and a W2 and many others are information returns.
[43:20.800 --> 43:22.640]  The computer program looks for those.
[43:22.640 --> 43:24.920]  OK, I've got this piece of presumptive evidence here.
[43:25.720 --> 43:27.920]  Where's the tax return that goes with that?
[43:28.640 --> 43:31.680]  And in some cases, it begins the process of kicking out those letters
[43:31.680 --> 43:33.600]  we talked about earlier.
[43:33.600 --> 43:35.680]  And in those cases,
[43:35.680 --> 43:38.600]  I would encourage people to create an evidentiary record
[43:38.600 --> 43:41.240]  of all the communications they've had.
[43:41.240 --> 43:44.920]  And there are some people in this country that are hell on wheels
[43:44.920 --> 43:47.760]  with administrative due process with these agencies.
[43:48.040 --> 43:49.600]  And then they take these
[43:49.600 --> 43:53.840]  they take these evidentiary files that where the person who knows
[43:53.840 --> 43:56.800]  the law has communicated correctly.
[43:57.360 --> 44:01.120]  This and such to the company has kept a record of the company's responses.
[44:01.280 --> 44:02.400]  They send a follow up.
[44:02.400 --> 44:04.480]  They have a record of the company's follow up.
[44:05.000 --> 44:07.960]  If it's a phone call, they memorialize it all in an email.
[44:07.960 --> 44:10.000]  You said, I said, you said, I said, you said, I said.
[44:10.200 --> 44:13.440]  And if I got in your position, your state of position wrong, please correct me.
[44:13.680 --> 44:15.840]  And so they have they're building this evidentiary file.
[44:16.080 --> 44:18.760]  And then they work with one of these guys that are hell on wheels
[44:18.760 --> 44:20.400]  for administrative due process.
[44:20.400 --> 44:24.160]  Did the IRS ever come a calling and say, by that, I mean, send a letter
[44:24.520 --> 44:27.640]  and say, we believe that you are as a 1040.
[44:27.840 --> 44:30.840]  And remember what that letter really means is
[44:31.200 --> 44:35.480]  this is your opportunity for constitutionally mandated due process.
[44:35.680 --> 44:39.360]  If if our presumptive evidence is factually wrong,
[44:39.600 --> 44:41.920]  this is your opportunity to tell us.
[44:41.920 --> 44:44.200]  And you do. And they go away.
[44:49.120 --> 44:50.920]  That was how did they ramp up?
[44:50.920 --> 44:52.160]  No, that was that was great.
[44:52.160 --> 44:56.440]  And so what should somebody look out for?
[44:56.440 --> 44:58.920]  So so it's like do the best you can.
[44:59.240 --> 45:02.040]  Not signed W-9, not signed W-4, go that route.
[45:02.800 --> 45:05.600]  If you are, you have no other choice.
[45:05.600 --> 45:08.680]  Is there anything that can be done or is this just something
[45:08.680 --> 45:11.080]  you're going to have to deal with or find other employment?
[45:14.400 --> 45:17.960]  Well, when you say, is there anything that can be done?
[45:18.200 --> 45:20.800]  That that's where you start putting together your evidentiary record.
[45:21.120 --> 45:24.080]  OK, so, Chris, let's say you asked me for a W-9.
[45:24.640 --> 45:27.720]  OK, so I'm going to tell you,
[45:28.240 --> 45:29.400]  hey, Chris, that's really cool.
[45:29.400 --> 45:33.840]  By the way, just got to tell you under I've studied tax law for many years.
[45:33.840 --> 45:36.480]  And under tax law, the regulations of the secretary,
[45:36.720 --> 45:40.040]  I'm not a person who's required by law to furnish you with a W-9.
[45:40.960 --> 45:43.240]  That's that's going to be the opening gambit.
[45:44.440 --> 45:48.560]  Now, you may say, oh. OK.
[45:49.880 --> 45:52.160]  Or you may say.
[45:55.120 --> 45:56.320]  I think you're full of shit
[45:56.320 --> 45:59.080]  and you're going to have to give me a W-9 or I'm not going to cut you a check.
[46:00.480 --> 46:04.000]  Or a company accountant may tell the owner
[46:04.000 --> 46:06.680]  if he's not going to give you a W-9, we need to do backup withholding.
[46:07.040 --> 46:09.600]  So tell him that. OK.
[46:09.600 --> 46:12.600]  There's there's a number of different responses to which, of course,
[46:12.600 --> 46:16.520]  the person who knows the law has to say, let's use backup example.
[46:16.560 --> 46:18.880]  Backup withholding is an example.
[46:18.880 --> 46:21.280]  And you have to say, no,
[46:21.280 --> 46:23.880]  I hear you threatening me with backup withholding,
[46:23.880 --> 46:27.080]  but that's not applicable to the kind of business we're conducting together.
[46:27.280 --> 46:29.800]  And here's what the law says. OK.
[46:33.200 --> 46:37.080]  I can't even remember the last time I've seen a company
[46:37.080 --> 46:39.640]  actually end up back up withholding, because the law is pretty clear
[46:39.640 --> 46:41.600]  that it only applies to interest and dividends.
[46:41.600 --> 46:43.920]  And that's never never what's being discussed. Right.
[46:45.000 --> 46:48.760]  And even the accountants have to have to nod when you show them
[46:48.760 --> 46:51.800]  what the law goes. Yeah, it's only applicable to that. OK.
[46:52.200 --> 46:54.560]  So they don't back up withhold,
[46:55.360 --> 46:59.320]  but sometimes they will withhold the payment period very rarely, very rarely.
[46:59.720 --> 47:01.800]  They'll actually say, well, then we're not going to cut you the check.
[47:02.560 --> 47:05.680]  What I encourage people to do in that case is just take the company
[47:05.680 --> 47:07.160]  to small claims court.
[47:07.160 --> 47:09.840]  Every single person that I'm aware of who's gone to small claims court
[47:09.840 --> 47:13.400]  over the last 30 years and said, here's the here was the agreement.
[47:13.840 --> 47:16.840]  If I did X, they were going to pay me Y. OK.
[47:17.080 --> 47:20.320]  And the judge will ask the defendant, is that true?
[47:20.320 --> 47:21.440]  Is that the agreement?
[47:21.440 --> 47:25.000]  The defendant will say yes, but he wouldn't give me a W nine. OK.
[47:27.000 --> 47:30.040]  And what the judge will say is here in small claims court,
[47:30.320 --> 47:33.320]  if you made an oral contract or a written contract
[47:33.720 --> 47:38.520]  that if he did X, you'd pay Y, then the I'm issuing the judgment for him.
[47:39.040 --> 47:44.080]  If the IRS has a beef with him, that's between he and the IRS.
[47:44.440 --> 47:46.720]  But you have to you have to honor the contract.
[47:47.080 --> 47:49.800]  Every single time somebody has got taken a company
[47:49.800 --> 47:53.160]  to small claims court over not getting not getting a check cut
[47:53.160 --> 47:55.400]  because they wouldn't finish it up, you know, that's been the outcome.
[47:56.680 --> 48:00.600]  Interestingly, because I know some people who work for themselves
[48:00.600 --> 48:03.360]  might be thinking right now, having heard that little dialogue, they're thinking,
[48:03.520 --> 48:06.280]  yeah, it'll never do business with that company ever again.
[48:06.800 --> 48:09.520]  Right. They're never going to hire me again because I sued them.
[48:11.040 --> 48:15.560]  There are ways to go about this without antagonizing the other side. OK.
[48:16.400 --> 48:20.440]  One of the tactics that I have encouraged people to use over the years
[48:21.520 --> 48:25.200]  is to say, well, tell you what, let's do this.
[48:26.560 --> 48:28.640]  Let me just go ahead and file a small claims court
[48:28.640 --> 48:29.880]  because you're going to pay me anyway, right?
[48:29.880 --> 48:31.920]  You know, you're not going to you're not going to well show this deal.
[48:31.920 --> 48:33.280]  So you're going to pay me anyway.
[48:33.280 --> 48:36.760]  So why don't we do this? I'm going to file go small claims court.
[48:38.120 --> 48:39.640]  If you don't want to show up, don't show up.
[48:39.640 --> 48:41.320]  I'll just get a default judgment. OK.
[48:41.320 --> 48:44.480]  But if you want to show up, the court's going to rule in my favor anyway.
[48:44.480 --> 48:46.600]  So show up, not show up. It's all the same.
[48:46.600 --> 48:48.360]  I'm going to get a judgment.
[48:48.360 --> 48:49.400]  And then you're covered.
[48:49.400 --> 48:52.440]  If the IRS ever says anything to you, you say, no,
[48:52.440 --> 48:54.560]  I was ordered by a court to pay him.
[48:55.920 --> 48:59.680]  So you can represent it as, you know, it's my way of helping you.
[49:01.000 --> 49:04.840]  So there are ways to go about that, that you don't damage the business relationship.
[49:05.480 --> 49:08.160]  Got it. OK, understood.
[49:08.160 --> 49:10.240]  Guys, anyway, that's just one.
[49:10.920 --> 49:12.760]  Yeah, absolutely.
[49:12.800 --> 49:13.400]  Guys, really quick.
[49:13.400 --> 49:15.520]  I know there's been a lot of questions in the chat tonight.
[49:15.520 --> 49:18.320]  If you want to call in and ask Dave a question,
[49:18.320 --> 49:20.440]  the call link is pinned to the top of the chat.
[49:20.440 --> 49:22.800]  Probably going to go for another 10 or 15 minutes here.
[49:22.800 --> 49:23.960]  We get to some live callers.
[49:23.960 --> 49:25.600]  So there's a lot of questions in tonight.
[49:25.600 --> 49:28.720]  If you want to get it answered, either put it in a super chat
[49:28.720 --> 49:32.640]  or you can click that join link and it'll bring you backstage.
[49:32.960 --> 49:36.480]  But I wanted to there was one chat here that I saw super chat.
[49:37.200 --> 49:40.480]  What is a corporation versus a trust and what is better, Dave?
[49:40.480 --> 49:41.920]  I don't know if you have any thoughts on that
[49:41.920 --> 49:44.240]  or if this is something you've looked into much.
[49:45.760 --> 49:48.400]  Is this something that you can weigh in on?
[49:48.400 --> 49:54.240]  Yeah. So a corporation is granted into existence by the state
[49:54.800 --> 50:00.200]  and corporations is well settled point of law for more than 100 years.
[50:00.480 --> 50:02.440]  Corporations have no inherent rights.
[50:02.440 --> 50:04.640]  You have inherent rights. I have inherent rights.
[50:04.640 --> 50:06.080]  Corporations do not.
[50:06.120 --> 50:12.400]  Corporations, what rights they have are actually privileges
[50:13.520 --> 50:15.920]  that are euphemistically referred to as rights.
[50:15.920 --> 50:21.120]  So, for instance, a corporation has the right to sue.
[50:21.880 --> 50:23.440]  They don't get paid. They can sue.
[50:25.480 --> 50:27.480]  However, that's not technically a right.
[50:27.760 --> 50:29.720]  You have a right to sue. I have a right to sue.
[50:29.720 --> 50:33.800]  The corporation has a privilege that's granted to them in law
[50:34.040 --> 50:37.680]  that allows them to sue, but they're euphemistically called rights.
[50:37.680 --> 50:40.040]  So we want to I say that because I want to distinguish
[50:40.040 --> 50:45.120]  between their privilege that has the banner of rights and we have real rights.
[50:45.160 --> 50:48.880]  OK, so corporations are limited.
[50:48.880 --> 50:51.520]  They're creatures of the state. They have privileges, not rights.
[50:52.000 --> 50:55.160]  And that means that the government is
[50:56.240 --> 50:59.560]  has more sway with corporations and the government believes that.
[50:59.600 --> 51:03.440]  Let me tell you, when the government is talking to a corporation,
[51:03.640 --> 51:06.000]  their point of view is you have no rights. We're the government.
[51:06.920 --> 51:09.200]  So I'm not a fan of corporations in that sense.
[51:09.200 --> 51:11.440]  However, there are industries, for instance, if you were,
[51:12.040 --> 51:14.760]  I don't know, importing distilled distilled beverages,
[51:14.760 --> 51:16.800]  you probably would would want to have a corporation.
[51:16.800 --> 51:19.720]  You know, if you're going to be on a pond filled with ducks,
[51:19.720 --> 51:21.680]  you want to look like a duck.
[51:21.680 --> 51:25.440]  However, I generally encourage people,
[51:25.440 --> 51:27.760]  if unless there's a reason to do otherwise,
[51:28.080 --> 51:31.120]  I generally encourage people to simply do business in their own name.
[51:32.040 --> 51:35.160]  However, if somebody feels for one reason or another
[51:35.160 --> 51:40.000]  that they want to have an entity out in front, then yes, a
[51:41.360 --> 51:43.320]  what's called a common law trust
[51:44.520 --> 51:47.880]  is can be can be a beneficial tool.
[51:48.160 --> 51:51.800]  All these things are tools for a given tool, a toolbox to be used
[51:51.800 --> 51:54.120]  during various circumstances.
[51:54.120 --> 51:57.880]  There's no there's no thing that is universally good or universally bad.
[51:58.880 --> 52:01.240]  I will say this.
[52:02.800 --> 52:07.480]  In the world of trust law and in the world of providing trusts.
[52:09.520 --> 52:14.760]  Most of the people who will tell you, yeah, pay me X amount of dollars
[52:14.760 --> 52:17.280]  and I'll provide you with a trust,
[52:17.280 --> 52:20.400]  no matter what they say, because I've been I was in the trust game
[52:20.400 --> 52:22.560]  for many, many, many, many years.
[52:22.560 --> 52:26.240]  And I am arguably the most knowledgeable person in the country
[52:26.240 --> 52:28.400]  on common law, pure trust.
[52:28.400 --> 52:31.120]  And I'm going to tell you that probably 99% of the people who tell you,
[52:31.120 --> 52:32.520]  yeah, I absolutely know what I'm doing.
[52:32.520 --> 52:35.360]  Just give me some money and I'm going to give you this great trust.
[52:35.360 --> 52:37.800]  Trust isn't what the paper is written on.
[52:37.800 --> 52:39.760]  Because, remember, trust can be challenged.
[52:39.760 --> 52:41.280]  A validity can be challenged in court.
[52:41.280 --> 52:45.440]  And there's all sorts of elements that go into whether or not that trust
[52:45.440 --> 52:47.680]  can withstand scrutiny of the court.
[52:48.080 --> 52:51.720]  And probably again, 99% of 99.9% of the people
[52:51.720 --> 52:55.880]  who purveyors of trusts, they don't know they're asked from a hole in the ground.
[52:55.880 --> 52:58.280]  It's just kind of a scam.
[52:58.280 --> 52:59.920]  But a good one is great.
[52:59.920 --> 53:02.000]  There's just not a lot of people out there doing good ones.
[53:04.640 --> 53:05.480]  Guys, a couple more.
[53:05.480 --> 53:08.200]  We want to get to see some guys calling to the back chat a little bit.
[53:08.200 --> 53:10.000]  And there's some guys back here I want to do some calling.
[53:10.000 --> 53:13.800]  So I got a couple more and these are sort of in the same vein,
[53:14.080 --> 53:16.680]  because I know that when people are going to watch this,
[53:16.680 --> 53:18.520]  the first thing they're going to do is Google you.
[53:18.520 --> 53:19.920]  Who is this guy?
[53:19.920 --> 53:21.680]  Does this stuff hold water?
[53:21.680 --> 53:24.160]  And if we were to do a little bit of background,
[53:24.200 --> 53:28.480]  there was an injunction sort of levied against you some odd years ago.
[53:28.800 --> 53:30.160]  Can you just talk about that a little bit?
[53:30.160 --> 53:33.280]  Exactly what happened to the best of your memory?
[53:33.280 --> 53:36.440]  I know you kind of went on record and went public about this and released a statement.
[53:36.440 --> 53:41.760]  But can you give it a little bit of background and insight on what it was about?
[53:41.920 --> 53:46.360]  And then sort of your response and sort of why you were not convicted
[53:46.360 --> 53:48.800]  in a court of law, you didn't serve time or anything like that.
[53:48.800 --> 53:51.320]  Just sort of what the kind of clear that up for the folks.
[53:52.080 --> 53:56.960]  OK, so first of all, a an action for an injunction is a civil matter.
[53:56.960 --> 53:58.000]  Let's start with that.
[53:58.000 --> 54:00.200]  There's no there's no criminal element to that whatsoever.
[54:01.600 --> 54:04.400]  What was it about? Well,
[54:05.600 --> 54:08.520]  when we talked about IRS forms say one thing, but they mean another.
[54:09.480 --> 54:12.320]  This case is completely in that category.
[54:12.560 --> 54:16.120]  The allegation was I was saying a bunch of things that were false
[54:16.400 --> 54:18.280]  and misleading people.
[54:18.280 --> 54:20.920]  And by spreading these falsehoods,
[54:20.920 --> 54:24.320]  I was damaging the revenue of the United States government.
[54:24.320 --> 54:25.400]  That was the allegation.
[54:25.400 --> 54:28.560]  What it really was is in the age of the Internet,
[54:29.800 --> 54:35.760]  if somebody if the government can find a way to memorialize
[54:36.520 --> 54:40.240]  that they won against this guy, whoever the guy might happen to be,
[54:41.920 --> 54:44.040]  that's going to scare a lot of people away from that person.
[54:44.040 --> 54:46.240]  And that's exactly what the government was attempting to do.
[54:46.400 --> 54:48.840]  There was his character assassination.
[54:48.840 --> 54:54.280]  So what what happened was the government accused me of saying
[54:54.840 --> 54:57.400]  three false things, OK?
[54:58.240 --> 55:01.920]  They accused me of saying that in doing so,
[55:01.920 --> 55:04.760]  misleading people about the about tax law. OK.
[55:05.160 --> 55:09.280]  And they're they're injuring the revenue of the United States in doing so.
[55:09.280 --> 55:11.960]  Therefore, I needed to be enjoined because I was a lying sack of shit
[55:11.960 --> 55:13.160]  costing them money.
[55:13.160 --> 55:16.960]  But so the three things that they said I said, number one,
[55:17.440 --> 55:20.600]  that the definition of person is used in subtitling
[55:21.160 --> 55:25.200]  for the purpose of the income tax does not include a natural person.
[55:25.200 --> 55:28.520]  What natural what what the phrase natural person means in law
[55:28.720 --> 55:30.760]  is guys like you and me, flesh and blood. OK.
[55:30.960 --> 55:34.680]  But just if we leave out natural, just the word person
[55:35.400 --> 55:36.880]  has all sorts of different meanings in law.
[55:36.880 --> 55:39.400]  For instance, in some statutes,
[55:39.400 --> 55:43.200]  Congress will specifically say it does include the federal government.
[55:43.440 --> 55:47.240]  In other statutes, it will expressly say
[55:47.440 --> 55:50.640]  the term person does not include the federal government and so forth.
[55:50.960 --> 55:54.920]  So person includes corporations, trusts, associations,
[55:55.080 --> 55:57.640]  sometimes the government, sometimes not the government and so forth.
[55:58.280 --> 56:01.280]  And its default meaning
[56:02.000 --> 56:05.520]  includes the natural person, flesh and blood.
[56:05.880 --> 56:09.440]  OK, so they claimed that I said
[56:10.280 --> 56:12.600]  it does not include the natural person.
[56:13.520 --> 56:16.680]  Anybody who reads income tax shard in the mist knows
[56:19.200 --> 56:22.440]  they were lying about what I said in 30 years.
[56:22.440 --> 56:24.800]  I've never said such a ridiculous thing because it is ridiculous.
[56:24.800 --> 56:28.680]  Like I said, for the default is it includes a natural person
[56:29.200 --> 56:33.120]  for it not to include the natural person would have to say
[56:34.240 --> 56:38.480]  for the purpose of subtitle, a person means this, this, this, this, this, this, this
[56:38.840 --> 56:41.040]  and excludes the natural person.
[56:41.040 --> 56:42.560]  And it doesn't say that.
[56:42.640 --> 56:45.960]  The second thing they said, I said, what was, oh, that wages,
[56:46.720 --> 56:52.520]  as defined in a subtitle C of the tax code, wages are not taxable.
[56:54.000 --> 56:55.680]  Never said that anybody who's reading tax
[56:55.680 --> 56:59.440]  shard in the mist knows that Congress took the word wages
[56:59.440 --> 57:02.200]  that we all understand what its common meaning is.
[57:02.200 --> 57:04.160]  Right. And they go to the dictionary.
[57:04.160 --> 57:07.840]  Well, Congress, I don't know if people are aware are aware that the
[57:08.440 --> 57:10.600]  that the U.S. Supreme Court has sanctioned this.
[57:11.000 --> 57:12.320]  Congress can take a word.
[57:12.320 --> 57:15.440]  We know all of us know what it means in the English dictionary.
[57:16.040 --> 57:19.040]  And Congress can truncate that definition down
[57:19.720 --> 57:23.120]  to just what Congress wants it to mean.
[57:24.680 --> 57:27.760]  So it doesn't mean I mean, first of all, the analogy
[57:27.760 --> 57:30.840]  I've often given when I'm talking to people is, you know, I'm sitting right now
[57:30.840 --> 57:32.800]  on a chair while we're talking. Right.
[57:32.800 --> 57:36.120]  But Congress could literally say in a statute
[57:36.560 --> 57:40.200]  that this thing with a platform that your butt goes on and it's got four supports
[57:40.200 --> 57:42.480]  and it's got a back brace that you can lean against. Right.
[57:43.200 --> 57:47.080]  Congress could actually say in its statutes, that's a cat.
[57:47.080 --> 57:48.960]  C.A.T. OK.
[57:48.960 --> 57:51.360]  There's nothing precluding Congress from doing that.
[57:52.640 --> 57:57.080]  And then for the purpose of whatever chapter or statute or code or whatever,
[57:57.560 --> 58:00.240]  cat would actually mean chair. OK.
[58:00.480 --> 58:03.360]  Now, Congress isn't quite that blatant, but that's what they did with wages
[58:03.360 --> 58:08.680]  and wages as they define that in subtitle C, absolutely are taxable.
[58:08.680 --> 58:09.520]  No question about it.
[58:09.520 --> 58:11.600]  I've never said otherwise, not once ever in 30 years.
[58:12.640 --> 58:15.960]  What was the third asinine thing they said I said?
[58:16.480 --> 58:19.680]  Do you remember, Chris, because I know you I want to I want to say
[58:19.680 --> 58:23.480]  it was something like submitting of submitting a voluntary tax.
[58:23.640 --> 58:25.800]  Tax returns are voluntary. Right.
[58:25.800 --> 58:28.680]  I've said exactly the opposite from day one.
[58:28.680 --> 58:29.760]  Thirty years.
[58:29.760 --> 58:33.200]  I've said if you are a person upon whom Congress has imposed the income tax,
[58:33.200 --> 58:35.880]  the tax is absolutely not voluntary and you must file.
[58:36.160 --> 58:37.480]  No question about it.
[58:37.480 --> 58:40.680]  Of course, people upon whom Congress has not imposed the income tax need not file.
[58:40.960 --> 58:42.200]  But that's a different question, right?
[58:42.200 --> 58:47.320]  It's not the tax. No tax by filing a return is not voluntary
[58:47.320 --> 58:49.240]  for any tax that includes income tax.
[58:49.240 --> 58:52.480]  Now, interestingly, here's how this went down.
[58:52.480 --> 58:54.760]  There was a pseudonym using
[58:56.400 --> 59:00.600]  revenue agent out of Washington, D.C., who was part of a task force,
[59:00.600 --> 59:03.840]  which was tasked with shutting me down, silencing me.
[59:04.520 --> 59:07.000]  And he admitted in court his name was Thomas Chow,
[59:07.000 --> 59:09.080]  but he admitted in court that was an IRS approved pseudonym.
[59:09.080 --> 59:10.640]  That was not his real name.
[59:10.640 --> 59:14.080]  So Mr. No Name walked into court and he didn't excuse me.
[59:14.080 --> 59:15.040]  He did not walk into court.
[59:15.040 --> 59:19.640]  He filed a statement with the court saying that I had said those three things.
[59:20.400 --> 59:22.120]  OK. OK.
[59:22.120 --> 59:26.000]  You can claim I said those three things, but that's not the same as proving it.
[59:26.000 --> 59:29.000]  Right. So my attorney
[59:29.960 --> 59:34.240]  said to the judge, we want an evidentiary hearing to find out
[59:34.600 --> 59:38.720]  where Mr. Chung got these these beliefs from.
[59:39.200 --> 59:40.840]  He if he's claiming Mr.
[59:40.840 --> 59:43.760]  Champion said person does not include a natural person,
[59:44.080 --> 59:47.280]  then Mr. Chung should be able to provide the court evidence
[59:47.280 --> 59:49.600]  of where Mr. Champion has said this.
[59:49.600 --> 59:52.400]  And the same with the other two points that they were trying to make.
[59:53.560 --> 59:55.320]  And of course, that's a matter of due process.
[59:55.320 --> 59:57.920]  If the government makes a claim or an allegation against you,
[59:58.400 --> 01:00:01.280]  you have the right to say, show me the evidence,
[01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:03.520]  because otherwise it's just a naked assertion.
[01:00:03.520 --> 01:00:05.920]  Right. It's not not valid.
[01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:08.120]  So my attorney said we want an evidentiary hearing.
[01:00:08.120 --> 01:00:10.320]  We want to get Thomas Chung in here and we want him to prove it.
[01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:13.320]  Provide us proof.
[01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:15.440]  The court proof. The champion said this.
[01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:17.760]  The judge said motion denied.
[01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:19.440]  You don't get to question Chung.
[01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:22.640]  The fact that he submitted a declaration saying champion said those things
[01:00:22.640 --> 01:00:24.520]  is all this court cares about.
[01:00:24.520 --> 01:00:29.880]  Now, everything that I know to be true about tax law
[01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:31.640]  is an income tax shattering the mess.
[01:00:31.680 --> 01:00:33.720]  So as one might imagine,
[01:00:35.560 --> 01:00:37.320]  if I believe that filing an income tax
[01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:39.880]  is voluntary, that would probably be the most prominent theme in the book.
[01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:42.080]  That actually appears nowhere in the book.
[01:00:42.080 --> 01:00:43.600]  Quite the opposite, I say.
[01:00:43.600 --> 01:00:46.080]  If the tax is imposed upon you, you have to file.
[01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:48.000]  And the same with the other two points.
[01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:51.040]  If I believe those, if I had ever said that and believe those things,
[01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:52.760]  they would appear in income tax
[01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:56.720]  shattering the mess would be featured prominently as reasons that it's not you.
[01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:58.600]  OK, they don't appear there.
[01:00:58.640 --> 01:01:02.440]  I actually have a standing $50,000 reward
[01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:06.440]  for anybody who can read income tax shattering the mess and show
[01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:12.840]  that I've said not not those three things, any one of those three things.
[01:01:13.560 --> 01:01:15.800]  It's been a standing offer for years.
[01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:17.960]  Excuse me. They're standing offer for years.
[01:01:17.960 --> 01:01:21.120]  I'll give you $50,000 if you can prove I've said even one of those things.
[01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:22.520]  No one's ever collected it.
[01:01:22.520 --> 01:01:26.920]  And I've got a video out there on rumble where I talk about that.
[01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:29.360]  And I say, I got to do is prove one.
[01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:33.800]  Just show that I said that just once, anywhere, any time, any of those.
[01:01:34.040 --> 01:01:36.600]  Just just one. I'll give you $50,000.
[01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:41.080]  In all the years since the government has said that I said those things,
[01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:45.960]  no one has been able to show me or anybody else on the planet
[01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:47.400]  that I said any of those things.
[01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:49.080]  The whole thing was a rigged game.
[01:01:49.080 --> 01:01:52.720]  It was intended in the Internet age to produce an outcome.
[01:01:52.720 --> 01:01:54.000]  They had a corrupt judge.
[01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.080]  They had a corrupt prosecutor who, by the way,
[01:01:56.080 --> 01:01:58.840]  committed several felonies in setting this all up with the judge
[01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:00.800]  outside the presence of the defense. Right.
[01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:03.680]  The whole thing was contrived.
[01:02:03.680 --> 01:02:07.120]  And the purpose was so that any time somebody mentions Dave
[01:02:07.120 --> 01:02:09.680]  Champion, just as you were saying a moment ago,
[01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:11.680]  they can do a little Google searches.
[01:02:11.680 --> 01:02:14.160]  Oh, my God, he was enjoying these.
[01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:16.760]  He's a liar. He's a scammer.
[01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:20.640]  OK, so presuming what I just told you about how that hearing went down.
[01:02:20.840 --> 01:02:22.520]  Who's the scammer?
[01:02:23.320 --> 01:02:26.080]  So if anybody's curious, that should clear it up.
[01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:28.960]  Yeah. And like I said, they can go to Rumble.
[01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:34.760]  If they enter Dave Champion, $50,000 with the number sign, $50,000,
[01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:36.520]  they'll pull up that video and they can watch it.
[01:02:36.520 --> 01:02:38.840]  And the whole thing is explained more in depth there.
[01:02:40.600 --> 01:02:42.680]  Roger that. Dave, I have so much more,
[01:02:42.680 --> 01:02:45.320]  but I want to make sure that I get to some of these questions
[01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:47.120]  from the folks and some of the guys behind the scenes.
[01:02:47.120 --> 01:02:50.600]  So I would love to do a part two, something we can talk about,
[01:02:51.240 --> 01:02:54.440]  you know, offline, but I want to make sure I get to some of these.
[01:02:54.720 --> 01:02:57.600]  There's a couple in here in super chats and I've got some guys behind the scenes.
[01:02:57.600 --> 01:03:03.280]  I want to grab this one here from Suzuki Samurai asking about Social Security,
[01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:06.960]  why it exists, what's it for?
[01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:09.680]  Does this also sort of fall under this category?
[01:03:09.680 --> 01:03:11.720]  Is Social Security applicable to all Americans?
[01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:14.160]  What does it sort of fall in this gambit of income tax?
[01:03:14.680 --> 01:03:16.680]  OK, good question. Thank you, Brandon.
[01:03:16.680 --> 01:03:18.520]  By the way, I know who that is.
[01:03:19.520 --> 01:03:21.520]  There's an entire section
[01:03:21.520 --> 01:03:24.600]  in income tax shattering the mess on Social Security.
[01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:29.960]  And I'm going to say something that's again, people are going to be screaming.
[01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:32.760]  That's not true.
[01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:37.360]  U.S. Social Security law is was established
[01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:41.160]  to support the Social Security structure
[01:03:42.040 --> 01:03:45.960]  granted to foreigners by their government when they're here.
[01:03:46.680 --> 01:03:48.480]  And there's reciprocity.
[01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:51.880]  OK, it really has nothing to do with me or you.
[01:03:52.520 --> 01:03:53.840]  That was never the intention.
[01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:55.440]  I explain all of this in detail.
[01:03:55.440 --> 01:03:58.120]  I quote the United States Supreme Court, for instance,
[01:03:58.120 --> 01:04:01.280]  people always have that FICA is taken out of their paycheck, right?
[01:04:01.600 --> 01:04:05.920]  And if you ask somebody, oh, what's that FICA on your on your
[01:04:06.560 --> 01:04:09.560]  they deducted from your paycheck, oh, Social Security tax.
[01:04:10.280 --> 01:04:13.640]  United States Supreme Court said FICA has nothing to do with Social Security.
[01:04:13.640 --> 01:04:15.400]  It's just an additional income tax.
[01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:17.080]  It doesn't go into any trust fund.
[01:04:17.080 --> 01:04:20.360]  It goes right into the Treasury's general fund, not earmarked for anything.
[01:04:20.600 --> 01:04:23.120]  According to the U.S. Supreme Court, not me. OK.
[01:04:24.640 --> 01:04:28.880]  So and Social Security tax
[01:04:28.880 --> 01:04:34.040]  when imposed is imposed in very limited circumstances.
[01:04:34.040 --> 01:04:36.840]  And I get into all of that in income tax shattering.
[01:04:36.840 --> 01:04:40.280]  And by the way, there's also a section on sales tax,
[01:04:40.280 --> 01:04:42.400]  which I think will fascinate people as well.
[01:04:42.720 --> 01:04:45.320]  All of these things,
[01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:48.040]  they rely on some of the tricks and gimmicks of the law.
[01:04:48.040 --> 01:04:49.240]  And I don't say that in a bad way.
[01:04:49.240 --> 01:04:50.760]  The law just is what it is. Right.
[01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:55.360]  So redefining words to mean things that people think they know what it means.
[01:04:55.360 --> 01:04:59.440]  But since they never read the definition for this law, the statute,
[01:04:59.680 --> 01:05:02.400]  they don't know how it's been modified by the legislature
[01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:06.000]  for that particular application and many other tricks and gimmicks of the law.
[01:05:06.360 --> 01:05:09.520]  So a lot of these taxes rely on people
[01:05:10.080 --> 01:05:13.560]  not doing research and not having the skill sets
[01:05:13.560 --> 01:05:16.000]  to understand what they're looking at, even if they do.
[01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:18.160]  And I think anybody who's running from tax
[01:05:18.160 --> 01:05:20.920]  shattering the miss would say champion solves that problem.
[01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:23.120]  He shows you all the tricks and the gimmicks.
[01:05:23.120 --> 01:05:25.520]  And then after he shows you their tricks and the gimmicks, he says, OK,
[01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:28.640]  now apply these tricks and gimmicks you just learned about.
[01:05:29.480 --> 01:05:31.960]  Apply them to the statute. What do you find?
[01:05:33.160 --> 01:05:36.600]  And people go, oh, so it doesn't mean what I thought it meant
[01:05:36.640 --> 01:05:39.680]  when I was reading it, absent understanding the tricks and gimmicks.
[01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:43.160]  Whole different meaning.
[01:05:44.840 --> 01:05:46.800]  Got it. Yeah.
[01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:49.200]  This stuff, man, is blow my mind.
[01:05:49.200 --> 01:05:52.880]  I got to tell you, Dave, guys, real quick, we get to call us here in a second.
[01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:56.360]  I'm going to run a quick ad insert, pay little bills for the channel.
[01:05:56.640 --> 01:05:57.560]  But a minute and a half.
[01:05:57.560 --> 01:05:58.760]  So they've grabbed some water.
[01:05:58.760 --> 01:06:00.760]  I'll see you back here in about 90 seconds, guys.
[01:06:01.040 --> 01:06:02.920]  Don't go anywhere. We'll see you in a second.
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[01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:35.480]  Guys, check out my website at Rich Cooper dot ca for more information
[01:07:35.480 --> 01:07:39.680]  on booking me for coaching my community, my courses and a whole bunch more.
[01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:41.680]  You can also find all the useful links
[01:07:41.680 --> 01:07:44.920]  pinned below in the top YouTube comment of all my videos.
[01:07:44.960 --> 01:07:47.160]  Now, let's get on with the show.
[01:07:48.240 --> 01:07:51.000]  All right, guys, that was the voice of Richard Cooper.
[01:07:52.200 --> 01:07:54.120]  Do you guys think I could put that?
[01:07:54.120 --> 01:07:56.080]  Do you think I could put that pheromone stuff into my hair?
[01:07:56.600 --> 01:08:01.200]  Hey, you know, look, it's good stuff, telling you, so it's great.
[01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:05.400]  You can pronounce the ingredients, which is the most important part.
[01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:07.360]  So but I know you know all about that.
[01:08:07.360 --> 01:08:11.080]  So that'll probably that we'll talk about that, I'm sure on a part two.
[01:08:11.080 --> 01:08:13.800]  But all right, guys, I know there's been a lot of questions.
[01:08:13.800 --> 01:08:15.720]  Kevin, you've been waiting patiently.
[01:08:15.720 --> 01:08:16.920]  Let's bring Kevin up on stage.
[01:08:16.920 --> 01:08:19.960]  You know, we had a question for Dave, Kevin, your life and.
[01:08:21.120 --> 01:08:24.640]  Hey, well, first off, Dave, I'm a huge fan of yours.
[01:08:25.080 --> 01:08:28.520]  I've read your book three times already.
[01:08:29.440 --> 01:08:32.360]  Oh, that's what I was saying, guys, more than once.
[01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:35.320]  Thank you for verifying that I wasn't BSing when I said that.
[01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:39.760]  Yeah, I've read it multiple times, gone over ins and outs,
[01:08:40.400 --> 01:08:43.840]  even written down from the documentation on my own word
[01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:48.000]  word document so I can actually have them in play.
[01:08:48.760 --> 01:08:50.720]  But my question is,
[01:08:51.480 --> 01:08:54.000]  I am currently currently unemployed.
[01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.520]  And so I'm finding work.
[01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:59.280]  I've read your book multiple times.
[01:08:59.280 --> 01:09:01.280]  But as far as going about
[01:09:03.600 --> 01:09:08.840]  going to a company like Home Depot or any corporation
[01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:11.160]  that requires it before.
[01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:17.280]  And you presenting the information from the booklet itself.
[01:09:18.040 --> 01:09:23.200]  And hypothetically, they they read it over,
[01:09:23.440 --> 01:09:26.080]  let them look at it for a week, come back to them.
[01:09:26.120 --> 01:09:28.560]  And they say, like, no, we still want you to do that before.
[01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:36.320]  I've heard some folks say, put if you sign, put it under dress,
[01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:42.000]  coercion, dress and get the other abbreviation.
[01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:47.640]  And would that still work?
[01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:51.880]  And say litigation,
[01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:59.120]  saying that at the end of the year, they provide you a 1040.
[01:10:01.440 --> 01:10:06.000]  Can you use that that abbreviation that you signed under telling the perjury,
[01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:08.520]  can you use that towards your case?
[01:10:08.520 --> 01:10:12.720]  OK, when you say litigation, can you tell me what you mean by that?
[01:10:13.280 --> 01:10:16.320]  Well, I mean, I mean, let's
[01:10:16.320 --> 01:10:18.960]  you're you're coming back with the
[01:10:18.960 --> 01:10:24.200]  come up against companies saying, listen, I told you guys, I don't owe this
[01:10:24.280 --> 01:10:26.960]  owe this in this tax.
[01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:31.440]  And you forced me to you force this upon me
[01:10:31.960 --> 01:10:36.160]  against my against my will so I can actually earn a living.
[01:10:39.080 --> 01:10:43.880]  How do you go about is that is that a fight with the with the company now
[01:10:43.880 --> 01:10:48.160]  or is that with the now with can join with the IRS as well?
[01:10:49.880 --> 01:10:54.160]  Well, OK, OK, so let's talk about this for a moment.
[01:10:55.760 --> 01:10:58.840]  I'm going to imagine unless you're incredibly
[01:10:58.840 --> 01:11:02.720]  unless you hold a position of incredible value with a company like you're
[01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:07.000]  indispensable, if you sue them.
[01:11:08.200 --> 01:11:12.360]  To get your the money, they get back the money they withheld from you.
[01:11:13.360 --> 01:11:15.200]  Your job is your job is gone.
[01:11:15.200 --> 01:11:19.600]  OK, so litigation against them is probably ill advised.
[01:11:20.440 --> 01:11:24.440]  OK, but the question becomes.
[01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:29.480]  At least in terms of.
[01:11:29.480 --> 01:11:32.120]  What I think most people are interested in,
[01:11:32.680 --> 01:11:37.120]  if the IRS sends that letter we talked about earlier and says,
[01:11:37.320 --> 01:11:41.800]  hey, we've got this W-2, where's the 1040?
[01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:45.880]  OK, all of the steps that you were just indicating,
[01:11:47.320 --> 01:11:50.800]  having a verbal conversation with them, memorializing that in an email,
[01:11:51.200 --> 01:11:54.920]  sending them a cover letter that perhaps has the withholding business
[01:11:54.920 --> 01:11:59.240]  handbook attached so they can read through that 13 page handbook
[01:11:59.240 --> 01:12:01.480]  and understand what the law really says.
[01:12:01.480 --> 01:12:04.560]  What you're doing is you're creating an evidentiary record.
[01:12:05.480 --> 01:12:08.040]  Let me explain why that's significant.
[01:12:08.040 --> 01:12:11.320]  When the average American talks to somebody from the IRS,
[01:12:11.320 --> 01:12:14.240]  OK, they tell the IRS a story.
[01:12:14.440 --> 01:12:16.760]  Well, this happened. My wife did that.
[01:12:16.760 --> 01:12:19.120]  And this motherfucker did that. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
[01:12:19.360 --> 01:12:21.840]  They tell the IRS a story.
[01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:24.480]  They don't present anything under penalty of perjury
[01:12:24.960 --> 01:12:27.640]  and they don't present any documentary evidence.
[01:12:27.640 --> 01:12:28.800]  OK, rarely.
[01:12:28.800 --> 01:12:30.920]  OK, I'm talking about the average Joe. Right.
[01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:33.720]  So the IRS only has to take stock of things
[01:12:33.720 --> 01:12:36.640]  that you've said under penalty of perjury and documentary evidence.
[01:12:37.440 --> 01:12:41.240]  So when the average person, you know, gets on the phone,
[01:12:41.240 --> 01:12:43.840]  with the IRS or goes to a meeting with an IRS person
[01:12:44.160 --> 01:12:47.920]  and tells these stories, which is how Americans deal with what they think
[01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:52.040]  is the law, they just go and tell them, well, this guy did this
[01:12:52.040 --> 01:12:54.720]  and that guy did that. This isn't fair.
[01:12:54.720 --> 01:12:56.160]  The IRS doesn't give a shit about that.
[01:12:56.160 --> 01:12:59.000]  And everything that was said gets thrown in the trash can
[01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:01.440]  because it wasn't sworn and there was no documentary evidence. OK.
[01:13:02.960 --> 01:13:06.520]  However, anything that's presented under penalty of perjury
[01:13:06.520 --> 01:13:09.080]  and anything that constitutes documentary evidence has to be put
[01:13:09.080 --> 01:13:11.480]  in your individual master file.
[01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:14.800]  We've talked about opening a tax module earlier. OK.
[01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:18.600]  Part of that tax module is something called the individual master file.
[01:13:19.160 --> 01:13:22.280]  And they have to put all of the information that you give them,
[01:13:22.400 --> 01:13:25.400]  all the testimony this way or in writing,
[01:13:26.120 --> 01:13:29.600]  all your testimony that's sworn, they have to put that in the individual
[01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:32.400]  master file, as well as any documentary evidence you furnish.
[01:13:33.360 --> 01:13:37.560]  So we talked earlier about creating that evidence file
[01:13:37.760 --> 01:13:42.120]  where you put you here when when Chris and I were having that conversation.
[01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:45.360]  OK. So you want to.
[01:13:46.880 --> 01:13:50.080]  Make sure that everything that goes back and forth,
[01:13:50.080 --> 01:13:52.040]  whether it's verbal, whether it's written,
[01:13:53.480 --> 01:13:58.320]  it's all memorialized in a way that can be presented as evidence.
[01:13:58.720 --> 01:14:02.520]  So let's say for the sake of argument, you take all these steps in 2024
[01:14:03.160 --> 01:14:06.280]  and in twenty twenty eight, you get a letter from the government.
[01:14:06.280 --> 01:14:07.640]  Where's our 1040?
[01:14:07.640 --> 01:14:11.320]  Yeah. If you haven't created that evidentiary file,
[01:14:11.920 --> 01:14:14.720]  really, you're left to pretty much tell a story.
[01:14:14.880 --> 01:14:18.160]  Yes, you can go down and have you and tell them everything about this.
[01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:20.920]  All the facts I'm about to tell you are sworn testimony.
[01:14:21.720 --> 01:14:24.600]  But you don't really have anything to back up that it really happened.
[01:14:24.920 --> 01:14:27.120]  It kind of becomes a liar's contest, right?
[01:14:27.440 --> 01:14:31.680]  Because they've got documents that were sent to them under penalty of perjury.
[01:14:31.920 --> 01:14:34.080]  So who's telling the truth? Right. OK.
[01:14:34.560 --> 01:14:38.400]  But if you create this evidentiary file, you not only have your sworn testimony,
[01:14:38.680 --> 01:14:42.040]  but you have hard documentary evidence.
[01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:46.480]  And as I mentioned earlier, there are some people in this country
[01:14:46.480 --> 01:14:48.800]  who are hell on wheels with administrative due process
[01:14:49.040 --> 01:14:52.120]  who can take that evidentiary record that you have compiled
[01:14:53.200 --> 01:14:55.880]  and they can create.
[01:14:59.280 --> 01:15:01.880]  Arguments in the form that the IRS
[01:15:02.560 --> 01:15:06.960]  accepts them and receives them and must give them due weight. OK.
[01:15:07.880 --> 01:15:12.000]  And then you receive that packet from the person who's prepared it all
[01:15:12.760 --> 01:15:14.440]  and you send it into the government.
[01:15:14.440 --> 01:15:16.000]  And there may be some back and forth.
[01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:18.760]  Nothing with the IRS is like done on first shot. Right.
[01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:20.400]  It's back and forth and back and forth.
[01:15:20.400 --> 01:15:22.960]  And eventually the IRS goes away. And here's why.
[01:15:22.960 --> 01:15:24.920]  This is the important part.
[01:15:26.440 --> 01:15:29.520]  If you read income tax shattering this, you know, the Congress has defined
[01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:32.720]  taxpayer at 7701A14.
[01:15:33.080 --> 01:15:35.720]  OK, there's a definition provided by Congress.
[01:15:36.200 --> 01:15:40.800]  And it is that you are a person that is liable for any tax
[01:15:40.800 --> 01:15:43.320]  contained within this title being Title 26.
[01:15:43.720 --> 01:15:46.080]  You are a person made liable.
[01:15:48.560 --> 01:15:51.760]  Can an IRS agent then, considering Congress established
[01:15:51.760 --> 01:15:54.760]  the definition of taxpayer for the purpose of the income tax,
[01:15:55.640 --> 01:16:00.640]  can an IRS agent change the meaning of taxpayer and go after you,
[01:16:00.640 --> 01:16:04.440]  even though you do not fulfill the requirements set out by Congress?
[01:16:05.040 --> 01:16:08.800]  No, no. Not only can they be fired, but there is a statute
[01:16:08.800 --> 01:16:11.760]  that allows you to sue them personally if they do that. OK.
[01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:14.280]  All of this has to be pointed out to them.
[01:16:14.280 --> 01:16:16.200]  But there's the kicker.
[01:16:16.200 --> 01:16:18.840]  You need to compile the evidentiary record.
[01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:22.400]  Now, I also want to encourage people when you have this conversation,
[01:16:22.440 --> 01:16:23.480]  you threw out Home Depot.
[01:16:23.480 --> 01:16:24.480]  So I'm going to run with that.
[01:16:24.480 --> 01:16:28.480]  OK, when you have this conversation with whether it's, you know,
[01:16:28.480 --> 01:16:32.000]  some some gal that owns a small company, whether it's Home Depot,
[01:16:32.200 --> 01:16:35.160]  whether it's Northrop.
[01:16:36.120 --> 01:16:39.400]  You want to have this conversation in a non confrontational way.
[01:16:40.520 --> 01:16:45.600]  It should be very neutral, neutral of tone, not angry, not
[01:16:46.040 --> 01:16:50.240]  I'm demanding this right now, because anybody, you know,
[01:16:50.760 --> 01:16:53.200]  I had companies for years where I had workers.
[01:16:53.200 --> 01:16:56.200]  If anybody talked to me like that, they'd be gone in a hot second. Right.
[01:16:56.720 --> 01:17:01.480]  So there has to be a very what I call neutral, non confrontational tone.
[01:17:01.800 --> 01:17:04.120]  Pretty much like, hey, man.
[01:17:05.320 --> 01:17:07.520]  You know, this is what I said.
[01:17:07.520 --> 01:17:09.360]  This is what you came back with.
[01:17:09.360 --> 01:17:10.920]  This is what I said.
[01:17:10.920 --> 01:17:13.080]  This is the ultimatum you gave me.
[01:17:13.080 --> 01:17:16.200]  So I did this, but I'm not really required to.
[01:17:16.200 --> 01:17:18.640]  You you didn't follow the law.
[01:17:18.640 --> 01:17:23.640]  So I just want I just want to memorialize that I shared all of this with you.
[01:17:23.640 --> 01:17:25.760]  And you chose not you chose not to follow the law.
[01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:30.360]  I don't ever use the word violate the law because that gets their hackles up.
[01:17:30.360 --> 01:17:33.600]  Right. You chose not to follow the law.
[01:17:33.880 --> 01:17:37.600]  So I just want us all to be aware of where we're at.
[01:17:38.920 --> 01:17:41.560]  And of course, that sent like return receipt requested
[01:17:41.560 --> 01:17:42.880]  so that you have evidence that you sent.
[01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:45.560]  And so so you create this evidentiary file.
[01:17:45.640 --> 01:17:47.920]  So if the IRS ever comes a calling,
[01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:53.080]  you can absolutely make them go away.
[01:17:54.200 --> 01:17:55.920]  Did I answer your question?
[01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:58.680]  Yes, you did. Thank you so much.
[01:17:58.680 --> 01:18:00.520]  No problem. I'm glad I could help.
[01:18:01.880 --> 01:18:04.640]  Cool. Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate you calling in, man.
[01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:08.640]  Thank you. All right.
[01:18:08.640 --> 01:18:11.040]  All right. Let's grab Scott next.
[01:18:11.040 --> 01:18:13.120]  You've been waiting as well.
[01:18:13.120 --> 01:18:13.720]  Scott, how are you doing?
[01:18:13.760 --> 01:18:15.960]  Hello. I'm good. How are you?
[01:18:15.960 --> 01:18:17.960]  I'm great. How are you guys doing tonight? Pretty good.
[01:18:18.400 --> 01:18:20.160]  Thank you. It's my question.
[01:18:20.160 --> 01:18:22.600]  My question is my question is about pensions.
[01:18:22.600 --> 01:18:25.560]  How does that play into this whole scenario?
[01:18:26.360 --> 01:18:29.320]  OK. Early, early on,
[01:18:30.320 --> 01:18:32.560]  when Chris asked me to make sort of that opening statement,
[01:18:33.480 --> 01:18:37.520]  I said that the income tax applies to three classes of persons.
[01:18:38.680 --> 01:18:42.680]  The first one, non-resident aliens with U.S.
[01:18:42.680 --> 01:18:45.080]  source income. Second one,
[01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:48.400]  foreign corporations with U.S. source income.
[01:18:49.640 --> 01:18:54.880]  Third one, U.S. citizens residing abroad with foreign earned income.
[01:18:56.560 --> 01:18:59.120]  There is no fourth category, so.
[01:19:01.240 --> 01:19:04.680]  That when we talk about pensions, nothing changes.
[01:19:05.960 --> 01:19:08.720]  There's nothing in Title 26, the tax code.
[01:19:09.240 --> 01:19:12.440]  There's nothing in there where Congress has said
[01:19:12.840 --> 01:19:16.320]  these are the three classes upon whom the income tax is imposed.
[01:19:16.880 --> 01:19:20.760]  Unless you're receiving money from a pension and then fuck all that, it doesn't count.
[01:19:21.840 --> 01:19:23.960]  It doesn't. I don't say that.
[01:19:23.960 --> 01:19:27.160]  It's those three classes in those three classes only.
[01:19:27.160 --> 01:19:31.160]  And by the way, I know that we haven't we didn't get in like subtitle B,
[01:19:31.160 --> 01:19:35.960]  which is gifted estate tax gap wager, wager, wage tax and all that.
[01:19:35.960 --> 01:19:38.240]  Right. Not wage. Wagering taxes.
[01:19:38.560 --> 01:19:41.600]  It's all the same. It's all upon the same people, the same three class.
[01:19:42.920 --> 01:19:46.240]  So unless you fit one of those categories,
[01:19:46.720 --> 01:19:50.840]  then there's there's nothing in your being paid to you from your pension
[01:19:50.840 --> 01:19:55.720]  fund that fulfills any you if you don't fulfill those descriptions,
[01:19:55.720 --> 01:19:58.600]  any of those three, the income tax doesn't apply to you.
[01:19:58.600 --> 01:20:00.960]  And it doesn't matter that it's a pension.
[01:20:02.480 --> 01:20:08.000]  OK. Now, arguing with the pension company, that's a whole other discussion.
[01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:11.960]  And something that really, I don't think we can get into here.
[01:20:12.440 --> 01:20:15.600]  OK. Good on that, Scott.
[01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:18.040]  Yes, I'm fine. Thank you.
[01:20:18.040 --> 01:20:19.840]  All right. Thanks, man.
[01:20:21.840 --> 01:20:25.040]  All right. Let's grab Tony. What's up, brother?
[01:20:26.040 --> 01:20:28.200]  Hey, how's it going, gentlemen? Good, man.
[01:20:28.200 --> 01:20:29.440]  Excellent question.
[01:20:30.440 --> 01:20:35.240]  So let's say you have an income tax gap.
[01:20:35.520 --> 01:20:38.560]  And let's say you have an income
[01:20:39.240 --> 01:20:41.320]  that's non-taxed right now.
[01:20:41.320 --> 01:20:45.240]  And I utilize that for my monthly means,
[01:20:46.120 --> 01:20:49.440]  especially living under my my my monthly means.
[01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:54.640]  And I go for another job, which pays me a hell of a lot more.
[01:20:55.120 --> 01:20:58.040]  But I would it be wise for me to
[01:20:59.480 --> 01:21:00.920]  I would say.
[01:21:01.920 --> 01:21:06.680]  Alleviate my tax situation, where if I put, let's say, 80 percent of that,
[01:21:06.680 --> 01:21:09.640]  let's say it's 10 grand for the month
[01:21:09.640 --> 01:21:12.200]  and I put that in a U.L.
[01:21:12.200 --> 01:21:16.000]  or something where it just accumulates that way next year or the year after,
[01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:20.160]  I can just utilize it as borrowing my own cash
[01:21:20.600 --> 01:21:25.760]  and then using that 20 percent for, you know, just in case things here and there.
[01:21:27.120 --> 01:21:30.400]  And then would it still be taxed?
[01:21:30.800 --> 01:21:34.000]  The whole amount or the 20 percent of the,
[01:21:35.080 --> 01:21:37.760]  I guess. OK, so
[01:21:39.440 --> 01:21:44.960]  I have to give you in part the same answer I just gave Scott.
[01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:50.000]  OK, and that is that Congress has imposed a tax on three classes a person,
[01:21:50.840 --> 01:21:52.840]  a non-resident alien with U.S.
[01:21:52.840 --> 01:21:55.120]  source income, foreign corporation with U.S.
[01:21:55.120 --> 01:21:59.120]  source income and a U.S. citizen residing abroad with foreign earned income.
[01:21:59.560 --> 01:22:03.440]  Then so what I hear you saying,
[01:22:03.440 --> 01:22:07.120]  and I can tell by the way you're representing that you're an intelligent guy,
[01:22:07.120 --> 01:22:11.560]  you've looked into all all these taxpayer mechanisms. OK.
[01:22:12.680 --> 01:22:16.320]  It's clear to me you're hell on wheels on that kind of stuff. OK.
[01:22:17.200 --> 01:22:19.960]  But you are. But no disrespect.
[01:22:20.280 --> 01:22:22.840]  You are thinking like a taxpayer. OK.
[01:22:23.280 --> 01:22:27.880]  And yeah, so and there's nothing wrong with that.
[01:22:27.880 --> 01:22:30.640]  I remember, you know, after I learned the truth,
[01:22:30.640 --> 01:22:33.880]  because I'd been in business for a number of years and I had patterns
[01:22:33.880 --> 01:22:37.720]  of behavior and thinking from when I didn't know anything about the truth
[01:22:37.720 --> 01:22:40.800]  of the income tax, you know, and I'd be thinking I'd be driving down
[01:22:40.800 --> 01:22:45.320]  the road in my car and thinking, you know, I can probably write that off.
[01:22:46.320 --> 01:22:49.920]  Don't leave her getting I didn't file returns anymore. OK. So
[01:22:51.160 --> 01:22:53.760]  have you read income tax shatter the mess?
[01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:56.080]  No, actually, the first time I've heard of it,
[01:22:56.120 --> 01:22:57.560]  I've done some research here and there.
[01:22:57.560 --> 01:23:00.800]  But I essentially did one of my regular sales last year.
[01:23:00.800 --> 01:23:02.640]  He's one of my regular guys.
[01:23:02.640 --> 01:23:04.160]  Yeah. So I'm going to recommend it.
[01:23:04.160 --> 01:23:06.200]  And here's why I'm not I'm not just trying to sell a book.
[01:23:07.640 --> 01:23:12.520]  I can tell from again, the way you represent that when
[01:23:13.200 --> 01:23:15.160]  if you were to read income tax shatter the mess,
[01:23:16.080 --> 01:23:18.960]  all of this taxpayer thinking you've got going on
[01:23:19.960 --> 01:23:23.720]  would disappear and you would be, oh,
[01:23:24.640 --> 01:23:27.240]  I get it. I don't need to do any of that crap anymore.
[01:23:27.840 --> 01:23:30.000]  OK. Imagine this.
[01:23:30.600 --> 01:23:33.800]  Imagine a guy was earning a living.
[01:23:33.800 --> 01:23:36.840]  However, he was earning his living in 1870.
[01:23:38.440 --> 01:23:41.000]  OK, 1870.
[01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:43.080]  Let's say he's a let's say he's a cattleman.
[01:23:43.080 --> 01:23:46.400]  OK, is he going to have to take 80 percent of his money
[01:23:46.400 --> 01:23:49.880]  and put it over here and pay tax on the 20 percent to do all this?
[01:23:50.160 --> 01:23:52.160]  Do all these machinations?
[01:23:52.200 --> 01:23:55.000]  No, his money was his property.
[01:23:55.000 --> 01:23:55.680]  End of story.
[01:23:55.680 --> 01:23:58.240]  And if you don't, if the government doesn't like it, go fuck yourself.
[01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:03.480]  So that's exactly unless you are a nonresident alien
[01:24:03.480 --> 01:24:06.040]  with U.S. search income or you're a U.S.
[01:24:06.040 --> 01:24:08.040]  citizen residing abroad, a foreign income.
[01:24:08.880 --> 01:24:10.680]  I presume you're not a foreign corporation.
[01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:13.280]  So if you don't fit any of those two categories,
[01:24:14.480 --> 01:24:19.440]  all the all the things that are up here, the machinations disappear.
[01:24:19.440 --> 01:24:21.400]  You don't you don't need them.
[01:24:22.760 --> 01:24:23.920]  So I'm going to recommend you
[01:24:23.920 --> 01:24:27.120]  read income tax shadowing the mist, because I know that if you read it,
[01:24:27.120 --> 01:24:30.440]  the light bulb would come on like super, super bright.
[01:24:30.440 --> 01:24:33.240]  And you'd be like, ah, I got it.
[01:24:33.320 --> 01:24:36.520]  I got it. And you would know exactly what direction to take.
[01:24:37.520 --> 01:24:39.480]  I'm confident you would.
[01:24:39.480 --> 01:24:42.000]  Sweet. Well, thank you very much.
[01:24:42.000 --> 01:24:44.000]  It does. Thank you.
[01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:46.320]  All right, Tony, be good, bro.
[01:24:47.720 --> 01:24:48.760]  Good stuff.
[01:24:48.760 --> 01:24:51.720]  We have one more audience question before I let you go.
[01:24:51.720 --> 01:24:53.160]  We're getting right up against the 90 minute mark.
[01:24:53.160 --> 01:24:56.800]  But our pal asked about Ronald Reagan's great.
[01:24:56.800 --> 01:24:59.040]  Now, I haven't heard about this. This is completely new.
[01:24:59.040 --> 01:25:02.000]  So is this something that you want to jump into for the last,
[01:25:02.000 --> 01:25:04.160]  you know, couple of minutes we got here?
[01:25:04.160 --> 01:25:05.680]  I don't know. Let me read what it says.
[01:25:05.680 --> 01:25:08.920]  Ronald Reagan's Grace Commission, the Grace Commission. Yeah, yeah.
[01:25:10.320 --> 01:25:12.080]  Love that. Thank you for the question.
[01:25:12.080 --> 01:25:13.960]  Who is that? Who asked that question?
[01:25:13.960 --> 01:25:16.280]  That was a friend of yours.
[01:25:16.280 --> 01:25:18.080]  OK, Suzuki Samurai.
[01:25:18.080 --> 01:25:20.720]  Oh, OK, that's Brandon again. OK.
[01:25:20.720 --> 01:25:28.080]  OK. So. When Reagan was in office, he put together something
[01:25:28.080 --> 01:25:31.040]  which is it has a very long name as so many government things
[01:25:31.040 --> 01:25:35.960]  as the the plain English version is it ended up being known
[01:25:35.960 --> 01:25:39.320]  as the Grace Commission because the guy who was the founder
[01:25:39.320 --> 01:25:40.680]  and president back then of W.R.
[01:25:40.680 --> 01:25:42.480]  Grace was the chairman of the commission.
[01:25:42.480 --> 01:25:44.520]  So it got dubbed the Grace Commission.
[01:25:44.520 --> 01:25:49.600]  And Ronald Reagan posed 10 questions and said they wanted
[01:25:49.600 --> 01:25:52.600]  the Grace Commission to go out and find the answers.
[01:25:52.600 --> 01:25:55.440]  And the thinking behind what Reagan was doing
[01:25:56.880 --> 01:26:00.520]  was I don't want to go to a federal agency and ask these questions
[01:26:00.680 --> 01:26:03.320]  because they're just going to blow hot air up my ass. Right.
[01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:07.040]  So I want to go out to to a group of people who are brilliant,
[01:26:07.040 --> 01:26:11.560]  who are wealthy, who who Ronald Reagan believed were sincere
[01:26:11.560 --> 01:26:13.760]  and authentic and genuine and honest.
[01:26:14.320 --> 01:26:16.640]  I want to pose these questions to you.
[01:26:17.240 --> 01:26:18.880]  And I want you to investigate them.
[01:26:18.920 --> 01:26:22.600]  I want you to give me, Ronald Reagan, the answer so that I can give it
[01:26:22.600 --> 01:26:24.080]  to the whole country. OK.
[01:26:24.080 --> 01:26:27.800]  One of the questions it was, what is income tax used for?
[01:26:30.080 --> 01:26:33.800]  And the Grace Commission found after much research
[01:26:34.640 --> 01:26:38.920]  that not one single penny
[01:26:39.640 --> 01:26:44.280]  of income tax is spent on the infrastructure or the services
[01:26:44.280 --> 01:26:48.720]  or the programs that the public believes
[01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:51.000]  their income tax dollars are being spent on.
[01:26:51.360 --> 01:26:56.520]  And in fact, one hundred percent of the income tax
[01:26:56.520 --> 01:27:00.520]  was spent to to service the interest on the national debt.
[01:27:00.760 --> 01:27:03.440]  It doesn't pay for jack shit. OK.
[01:27:04.960 --> 01:27:05.960]  There is a reason.
[01:27:05.960 --> 01:27:10.160]  And again, I don't want to make this, as you said, we're up against 90 minutes
[01:27:10.160 --> 01:27:12.120]  and I know we need to have a back end here somehow.
[01:27:13.120 --> 01:27:16.560]  There is a reason that the Federal Reserve Act
[01:27:16.560 --> 01:27:20.880]  and the income tax were both passed by the same Congress in 1913.
[01:27:21.720 --> 01:27:24.720]  And again, it would be a very long winded explanation.
[01:27:24.720 --> 01:27:28.520]  But I will just simply say that the
[01:27:29.400 --> 01:27:33.240]  the income tax being used to pay the interest on the debt
[01:27:33.240 --> 01:27:37.240]  to the bankers that comprise the Federal Reserve System.
[01:27:37.920 --> 01:27:41.200]  That's why they were passed by the same Congress in the same year.
[01:27:41.680 --> 01:27:43.640]  It's all part of the same.
[01:27:47.680 --> 01:27:50.920]  I don't want to go so far as to say it's a scam because the Federal Reserve
[01:27:51.440 --> 01:27:56.320]  certainly. It's
[01:27:56.320 --> 01:28:01.440]  a particular kind of monetary policy arrangement,
[01:28:01.440 --> 01:28:06.240]  the Federal Reserve, and it comes out of Keynesian economics and.
[01:28:06.240 --> 01:28:10.080]  The Congress
[01:28:10.080 --> 01:28:13.480]  plugged in the necessary elements
[01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:17.200]  to make what they envision they wanted.
[01:28:17.880 --> 01:28:21.480]  They plugged in the elements that were necessary to create that.
[01:28:22.160 --> 01:28:24.880]  And one of those is the Federal Reserve Act.
[01:28:25.160 --> 01:28:27.360]  And one of them was the modern income tax.
[01:28:27.360 --> 01:28:29.800]  They were both passed by the same Congress in 1913.
[01:28:30.600 --> 01:28:33.760]  So the Grace Commission was absolutely correct.
[01:28:34.760 --> 01:28:36.840]  And, you know, I've heard a lot of people over the years, you know,
[01:28:36.840 --> 01:28:40.240]  well, the income tax pays for all the stuff that we want.
[01:28:40.280 --> 01:28:41.880]  No, it doesn't. It doesn't pay for any of it.
[01:28:46.080 --> 01:28:47.280]  Great summation.
[01:28:47.280 --> 01:28:49.960]  Yeah, that's that's one of the first things that I learned
[01:28:49.960 --> 01:28:54.040]  when I first stumbled onto this, because I think there's a the common belief,
[01:28:54.040 --> 01:28:56.800]  right, is like, oh, we pay taxes because it pays for roads and pays for,
[01:28:56.800 --> 01:28:59.840]  you know, the salaries of our public servants and things like that.
[01:28:59.840 --> 01:29:02.600]  And I think a lot of people are, I mean,
[01:29:03.440 --> 01:29:05.800]  now we're sending it off to, you know, fun proxy wars
[01:29:05.800 --> 01:29:08.040]  that we're not involved in or whatever, wherever it's going.
[01:29:08.040 --> 01:29:11.960]  So, yeah, that's this has been great, man.
[01:29:12.920 --> 01:29:14.440]  I know we're up against the clock here.
[01:29:14.440 --> 01:29:17.320]  I would love to chat, you know, about doing a part two.
[01:29:17.320 --> 01:29:19.480]  There's a lot of stuff we can get to tonight.
[01:29:19.480 --> 01:29:21.560]  But one of the folks has to call in and talk.
[01:29:22.680 --> 01:29:24.200]  I will real quick.
[01:29:24.200 --> 01:29:26.160]  This is a wrap up. Tell people where they can buy the book,
[01:29:26.160 --> 01:29:27.920]  where they can find you. I know you mentioned your rumble.
[01:29:27.920 --> 01:29:29.680]  You know, where can people find you get in touch with you
[01:29:29.680 --> 01:29:31.720]  if they have questions or if they want to.
[01:29:31.720 --> 01:29:33.880]  Thank you more directly.
[01:29:33.880 --> 01:29:37.720]  OK, so if you want to buy Income Tax Shatter in the Mist,
[01:29:37.720 --> 01:29:40.360]  or I've got a couple other books and pamphlets out there,
[01:29:40.360 --> 01:29:47.040]  you can go to DrReality.News, DrReality.News.
[01:29:47.360 --> 01:29:51.280]  You can find my videos where I talk about all sorts of things,
[01:29:51.280 --> 01:29:55.840]  politics, physiology, health, income tax and so forth on rumble.
[01:29:55.840 --> 01:29:57.600]  I think you'll find it fascinating.
[01:29:57.680 --> 01:30:02.680]  Rubble has an odd search, so if you put in Dave Champion PhD,
[01:30:02.680 --> 01:30:04.360]  you'll probably come up with the channel.
[01:30:04.360 --> 01:30:05.600]  If you just put in Dave Champion,
[01:30:05.600 --> 01:30:07.440]  it doesn't seem to really get the job done.
[01:30:07.440 --> 01:30:10.040]  So Dave Champion PhD and you'll find my channel
[01:30:10.040 --> 01:30:12.280]  and I think you'll really enjoy the content there.
[01:30:12.280 --> 01:30:14.640]  And if you want to drop me an email for any reason,
[01:30:14.640 --> 01:30:18.160]  just Dave at DrReality.News.
[01:30:19.680 --> 01:30:22.080]  Awesome. Guys, you heard it here. Dave, I'm going to pull you off.
[01:30:22.080 --> 01:30:23.840]  I'll stick around a little bit after as I wrap here
[01:30:23.840 --> 01:30:26.760]  and then I will go ahead and do like our closing remarks here.
[01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:27.760]  Thanks, Chris.