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[00:00.000 --> 00:05.940]  On March 8th, 2024, I was interviewed on the Truthstream show by hosts Joe Rossotti and
[00:05.940 --> 00:07.200]  Scott Stone.
[00:07.200 --> 00:12.540]  The subject was the truth of the income tax, the truth being that Congress has never imposed
[00:12.540 --> 00:16.100]  the income tax on ordinary working Americans like you.
[00:16.100 --> 00:22.140]  And if you get yourself informed, you can safely walk away from the government scam.
[00:22.140 --> 00:25.300]  It was a wild, freewheeling, raucous interview.
[00:25.300 --> 00:29.300]  Me, the hosts, and the audience had a great time.
[00:29.300 --> 00:33.460]  More importantly, everyone came away from the interview with a strong sense that the
[00:33.460 --> 00:38.540]  U.S. government has been scamming the American people out of a tax they don't owe for at
[00:38.540 --> 00:40.300]  least 70 years.
[00:40.300 --> 00:44.780]  If you haven't read Income Tax Shattering the Mist, this will be a great interview for
[00:44.780 --> 00:49.300]  you to watch because Joe and Scott hadn't yet read it when the interview took place,
[00:49.300 --> 00:54.620]  so they likely asked me questions, the same kind of questions you would ask if you and
[00:54.620 --> 00:56.920]  I had a one-on-one conversation.
[00:56.920 --> 01:02.180]  The Truthstream show streams live on both Rumble and X so you can catch their fascinating
[01:02.180 --> 01:05.220]  content on whichever platforms suit you best.
[01:05.220 --> 01:08.320]  If you enjoy this interview, consider subscribing to their show.
[01:08.320 --> 01:12.120]  I'll put the links to their show in the notes along with the link to get Income Tax Shattering
[01:12.120 --> 01:13.120]  the Mist.
[01:13.120 --> 01:16.520]  So sit back, relax, and enjoy the fireworks.
[01:16.520 --> 01:21.560]  Dave, let's talk about your background.
[01:21.560 --> 01:24.120]  I'm going to put this over towards me for a second.
[01:24.120 --> 01:30.080]  So Dave, where do you want to start for the viewers with a little bit about your background
[01:30.080 --> 01:33.720]  so they understand where you're coming from?
[01:33.720 --> 01:39.000]  And I think from our conversation and the part of your book that I have read, people
[01:39.000 --> 01:44.500]  need to let their perception completely go of all the teachings and the indoctrinations
[01:44.500 --> 01:48.920]  that they've had about the system to really connect with your message.
[01:48.920 --> 01:51.000]  Would you say that's fair to say?
[01:51.000 --> 01:52.560]  Yes, absolutely.
[01:52.560 --> 01:56.280]  One of the things that I encourage people to do, interestingly, and not just Income
[01:56.280 --> 01:59.840]  Tax Shattering the Mist but my other book Body Science, both of them at the opening
[01:59.840 --> 02:07.960]  I say, look, if you can't temporarily suspend the tape that's running in your head about
[02:07.960 --> 02:12.920]  this issue, this is going to be a very frustrating read for you.
[02:12.920 --> 02:17.560]  So what I advocate that people do, especially considering Income Tax Shattering the Mist,
[02:17.560 --> 02:23.880]  if they're an accountant or an attorney, I really encourage them to suspend everything
[02:23.880 --> 02:26.520]  that they believe is so.
[02:26.520 --> 02:33.760]  I don't tell them to forget it or jettison it, just suspend it while reading the book.
[02:33.760 --> 02:38.400]  Then when they've gotten to that final page of the book, they can take all that they have
[02:38.400 --> 02:47.000]  learned and juxtapose it against their previous narrative and see which is actually fact-based
[02:47.000 --> 02:49.600]  and which actually holds water.
[02:49.600 --> 02:54.400]  Because there's no question, and this has been proven tens of thousands of times with
[02:54.400 --> 03:00.360]  people reading Income Tax Shattering the Mist, most people who begin Income Tax Shattering
[03:00.360 --> 03:05.640]  the Mist, they open that first page, they're like, okay, well, this should be interesting.
[03:05.640 --> 03:10.360]  I can't tell you how many people have told me they bought the book to prove me wrong.
[03:10.360 --> 03:14.240]  So when they open the first couple and they read the first couple of pages of the book,
[03:14.240 --> 03:19.200]  they're reading it kind of with the point of view that, well, we'll see, I don't really
[03:19.200 --> 03:22.760]  put much stock in this, but we'll see how it winds up.
[03:22.760 --> 03:28.440]  And then by the time they close the final page, their perspective is, holy shit, the
[03:28.440 --> 03:33.320]  federal government's been lying to me my entire life and they're ripping off the whole nation.
[03:33.320 --> 03:40.280]  So there's a progression, but it's frustrating if people can't suspend the narrative that
[03:40.280 --> 03:41.280]  they've come to believe in.
[03:41.280 --> 03:42.280]  Right.
[03:42.280 --> 03:43.280]  Right.
[03:43.280 --> 03:44.280]  Welcome to the party, pal.
[03:44.280 --> 03:45.280]  That line from Die Hard.
[03:45.280 --> 03:46.280]  Yeah.
[03:46.280 --> 03:47.280]  Here we are.
[03:47.280 --> 03:48.280]  You mean you can't trust the government?
[03:48.280 --> 03:49.280]  Hard to believe, isn't it?
[03:49.280 --> 04:03.960]  I tell you, there's been sort of a surge of interest in Income Tax Shattering the Mist,
[04:04.960 --> 04:13.240]  that the surge of interest is because of what went down in 2020, 2021, and 2022.
[04:13.240 --> 04:18.720]  I believe there's a lot of people that were so outraged about the things the government
[04:18.720 --> 04:27.760]  said and did that it significantly has reduced whatever trust they had in government, those
[04:27.760 --> 04:30.720]  three years really reduced it a lot further.
[04:30.760 --> 04:34.760]  So now they're willing to look at Income Tax Shattering the Mist and say, well, we saw
[04:34.760 --> 04:38.080]  the government do all that crap for those three years.
[04:38.080 --> 04:41.200]  Maybe they're pulling some other crap here.
[04:41.200 --> 04:48.680]  And so ever since the SARS-CoV-2 event, there's been a significant increase in interest for
[04:48.680 --> 04:51.280]  the subject matter.
[04:51.280 --> 04:53.720]  Right.
[04:53.720 --> 04:58.440]  So what inspired you to write this book?
[04:58.440 --> 05:01.960]  I mean, I think certain people can have, I mean, I'm sure people have their opinions
[05:01.960 --> 05:08.240]  or I'm just curious, like what and how did you think it was going to go when you wrote
[05:08.240 --> 05:09.240]  it?
[05:09.240 --> 05:15.360]  Maybe a little bit about that, because it seems like people would be hungry for, right?
[05:15.360 --> 05:20.280]  It seems like people would be hungry for this, yet it seems like you have had a little bit
[05:20.280 --> 05:22.360]  of a different experience.
[05:22.360 --> 05:27.000]  Scott, he's trying to show how naive I was.
[05:27.000 --> 05:31.000]  That's what's going on right here.
[05:31.000 --> 05:35.640]  So first of all, what caused me to want to write it?
[05:35.640 --> 05:43.360]  So I was probably about, I don't know, maybe 12 or 13 years into my 17 years of research
[05:43.360 --> 05:46.040]  before I published the book.
[05:46.040 --> 05:49.480]  And I realized I was in a very fortunate position.
[05:49.480 --> 05:52.860]  I owned a couple of companies, I had some great guys working for me.
[05:52.860 --> 05:54.240]  They carried most of the water.
[05:54.240 --> 05:57.520]  That allowed me a lot of free time to do all the legal research.
[05:57.520 --> 06:02.680]  And I mean, there were so many people involved back then, sometimes I would rent a 15 passenger
[06:02.680 --> 06:09.960]  van and drive like 10 or 12 of us to a law library, each person with an assignment what
[06:09.960 --> 06:13.080]  to go out and look for.
[06:13.080 --> 06:19.520]  You can imagine that's a complex, time consuming, personnel intensive effort.
[06:19.520 --> 06:27.040]  And so I realized that probably about the 12 year mark, if all Americans have to go
[06:27.040 --> 06:33.160]  through this, then the truth of the income tax is DOA.
[06:33.160 --> 06:39.560]  Because nobody with a job and kids and responsibilities is going to, most of the people are not going
[06:39.560 --> 06:43.560]  to have the freedom to dedicate the sort of research time I did, but they would have no
[06:43.560 --> 06:46.520]  inclination to do so even if they had the freedom.
[06:46.520 --> 06:52.480]  So I said, okay, there was no what I call comprehensive compendium back then, which
[06:52.480 --> 06:54.800]  is what income tax shattering the missus.
[06:54.800 --> 06:56.240]  It didn't exist.
[06:56.240 --> 07:02.240]  You had this faction promoting one idea, you had another faction promoting another idea.
[07:02.240 --> 07:04.520]  Some of them were right, some of them were kooky.
[07:04.520 --> 07:10.440]  But there was no comprehensive, reliable compendium that everybody could pick up, read it, get
[07:10.440 --> 07:13.360]  to the end and say, I just saw the truth.
[07:14.000 --> 07:18.840]  It was just made clear to me in a way that cannot be disputed.
[07:18.840 --> 07:19.840]  That didn't exist.
[07:19.840 --> 07:23.840]  So I'm like, okay, if no one's going to want to replicate all this research that I and
[07:23.840 --> 07:30.560]  others have done, then the alternative is to somehow make it a lot easier.
[07:30.560 --> 07:36.920]  And a lot easier in my mind was just read one book.
[07:36.920 --> 07:43.840]  If you can read one book and know 17 years worth of my legal research, boy, that's sure
[07:43.840 --> 07:48.440]  distilling it down and allowing people to learn the truth without all the effort going
[07:48.440 --> 07:49.440]  into it.
[07:49.440 --> 07:52.080]  And I understand, I don't expect anybody to do what I did.
[07:52.080 --> 07:58.640]  I was in a very fortunate position, both as far as time, as far as money, as far as acumen,
[07:58.640 --> 08:04.960]  but that wasn't going to float for the other 334 million Americans.
[08:04.960 --> 08:07.200]  So income tax shattering misses the answer to the question.
[08:07.200 --> 08:10.120]  Now, what did I think when I was writing it?
[08:10.120 --> 08:14.800]  This is the humorous part, I think.
[08:14.800 --> 08:24.120]  You know, I really believed that my fellow Americans had a burning desire for personal
[08:24.120 --> 08:25.120]  liberty.
[08:25.120 --> 08:32.040]  And as soon as somebody gave them a comprehensive compendium so they could stop being stolen
[08:32.120 --> 08:37.960]  from, they'd be like, fuck yeah, I'm on, right?
[08:37.960 --> 08:41.920]  And so I figured there was about that time, it was somewhere in the range of about 100
[08:41.920 --> 08:44.960]  million Americans filing 1040s every year.
[08:44.960 --> 08:51.320]  So I figured my potential customer base was 100 million people, right?
[08:51.320 --> 08:55.640]  So let's say half of those people decided they wanted to know the truth.
[08:55.640 --> 08:58.680]  That would be, I'd sell 50 million books.
[08:58.680 --> 09:04.160]  The nation would be freed from this scourge, and I happen to be a millionaire in the process,
[09:04.160 --> 09:05.160]  right?
[09:05.160 --> 09:06.160]  It's a win-win situation.
[09:06.160 --> 09:09.080]  I didn't do it for the money, but you get my point.
[09:09.080 --> 09:10.080]  Right.
[09:10.080 --> 09:11.080]  Yeah.
[09:11.080 --> 09:21.680]  And so I quickly found out that the vast majority of Americans don't give a fig about this.
[09:21.680 --> 09:25.040]  They are either too afraid.
[09:25.040 --> 09:28.400]  You know, there's that old expression, the last thing a fish would notice is water.
[09:29.120 --> 09:36.160]  So Americans, in terms of the income tax, the propaganda really started in earnest by
[09:36.160 --> 09:38.160]  the government in about the 1950s.
[09:38.160 --> 09:43.640]  So most people who are alive today, they were born into the matrix in terms of government
[09:43.640 --> 09:46.200]  propaganda on the income tax.
[09:46.200 --> 09:48.560]  They've never known anything else.
[09:48.560 --> 09:56.360]  So for the vast majority, in my opinion, they're completely inured to having their property
[09:56.360 --> 09:57.880]  stolen.
[09:58.360 --> 10:00.360]  It's like, well, they've always stolen my property.
[10:00.360 --> 10:02.360]  What is Champion talking about?
[10:02.360 --> 10:06.240]  Why the fuck would I want to stop them from stealing my property?
[10:06.240 --> 10:07.240]  Scamming me.
[10:07.240 --> 10:08.240]  That's ridiculous.
[10:08.240 --> 10:10.480]  I've been scammed since the day I started working at 16.
[10:10.480 --> 10:12.320]  Why would I want to stop that?
[10:12.320 --> 10:16.320]  That seems to be where most Americans are at.
[10:16.320 --> 10:20.360]  You know, it's funny because taxation by definition is theft.
[10:20.360 --> 10:21.720]  I mean, it really is.
[10:21.720 --> 10:26.960]  But you know, by the same token, we grow up in a world where people are, that's like the
[10:27.000 --> 10:28.320]  original virtue signal.
[10:28.320 --> 10:33.880]  I, you know, I pay my taxes like that's that's one of the first signifiers that American
[10:33.880 --> 10:35.760]  would say, you know, I'm a I'm a good person.
[10:35.760 --> 10:37.440]  I'm a productive citizen.
[10:37.440 --> 10:42.960]  But, you know, if we read, you know, the intentions of the founding fathers, I mean,
[10:42.960 --> 10:47.400]  this couldn't be this couldn't be further from the original design.
[10:47.400 --> 10:52.160]  And and, you know, no one ever talks about the tax receipts.
[10:52.160 --> 10:56.920]  They talk about the budget and rates and so on and so forth.
[10:56.920 --> 11:00.960]  But we never get to know how much they're bringing in.
[11:00.960 --> 11:07.680]  And then also the other factor of the money printer go brr, you know, they're just printing
[11:07.680 --> 11:11.720]  the money. And then who pays the taxes is kind of ambiguous.
[11:11.720 --> 11:14.280]  I mean, it's not a direct relationship.
[11:14.280 --> 11:17.880]  It's almost an exercise in obedience.
[11:17.880 --> 11:21.200]  A couple of things. Number one, you talked about the intention of the founding fathers.
[11:21.200 --> 11:25.720]  And one of the things you'll come across when you read income tax chatter, the miss is in
[11:25.720 --> 11:32.240]  the years immediately after the enactment of the 16th Amendment, the Supreme Court dealt
[11:32.240 --> 11:36.280]  with what the 16th Amendment actually meant in several cases.
[11:36.280 --> 11:41.560]  And in one of the cases, Justice White, who was the chief justice at that time for the
[11:41.560 --> 11:49.600]  court, he wrote that the purpose of the direct tax, having apportionment, which is not what
[11:49.600 --> 11:55.520]  the income tax is, that the intent of the founding fathers was to prevent the federal
[11:55.520 --> 12:01.240]  government from obstructing the accumulation of wealth.
[12:02.280 --> 12:07.320]  OK, so something like a progressive income tax, which we know is one of the planks of the
[12:07.320 --> 12:14.200]  Communist Party. Justice White was saying back in 1916 that the founders, when they
[12:14.240 --> 12:20.240]  wrote the provisions, the limitations of taxation into the federal constitution, the reason
[12:20.240 --> 12:24.240]  that direct taxes have to be apportioned is so that they cannot, the actual phrase from
[12:24.240 --> 12:28.480]  the decision is, burden the accumulation of property real and personal.
[12:28.480 --> 12:32.840]  The way we would say that today is burden the accumulation of wealth.
[12:32.840 --> 12:39.960]  So, yes, you haven't read the book yet, but you hit that nail right on the head, which
[12:39.960 --> 12:44.080]  tells me you're really going to enjoy when you read things like the Bruce Shaver decision.
[12:44.560 --> 12:48.680]  Because it's going to validate a lot of things that you actually feel and then the court
[12:48.680 --> 12:49.680]  will agree with you.
[12:51.280 --> 12:55.600]  Yeah, you know, nothing like spending a few hours being infuriated each day as I as I
[12:55.600 --> 13:00.520]  read the book. But I imagine there's a liberation component in there, and that's that's
[13:00.520 --> 13:02.200]  what I'll be reading for, for sure.
[13:02.600 --> 13:06.800]  You know, it's kind of like this big shift that we've had culturally in this country.
[13:07.200 --> 13:11.680]  And the one the one thing that really set this country apart more than anything, if I
[13:11.680 --> 13:17.080]  had to pick one thing, because there's a few, is the acknowledgment that our rights are
[13:17.080 --> 13:22.360]  given to us not by the government, but by God, that we're born with these rights.
[13:22.360 --> 13:24.280]  They're inalienable and inalienable.
[13:25.320 --> 13:27.400]  OK, I'm not even going to try to pronounce it. You get what I'm saying.
[13:28.160 --> 13:29.280]  Inalienable rights. Right.
[13:30.280 --> 13:35.760]  They are not they are not bestowed, but yet everyone asks the government what they have
[13:35.760 --> 13:38.920]  permission for. You know, I mean, if I want to go fishing, I have to have a license.
[13:38.920 --> 13:41.320]  If I want to go hunting, I have to have a license.
[13:41.320 --> 13:45.440]  If I want to engage in commerce, I have to have a license, which is typically what they
[13:45.440 --> 13:48.000]  do when they take your rights away and then sell them back to you.
[13:49.080 --> 13:54.640]  But it's that same kind of subservience because we've been infantilized to the degree
[13:54.640 --> 14:02.160]  that we view government in a parental role rather than in an employee role, even though
[14:02.840 --> 14:06.720]  by all other measure, they are employees, representative government.
[14:06.720 --> 14:07.880]  At least that's the idea.
[14:08.720 --> 14:11.120]  It's been a while since they've represented the will of the people.
[14:11.120 --> 14:13.600]  But you get my my my meaning here.
[14:13.600 --> 14:19.320]  It's a it's odd how the psychology has shifted to such a degree that, you know, people
[14:19.320 --> 14:25.560]  don't they don't beg the question, even in a in a economically challenging period, such
[14:25.560 --> 14:29.560]  as the one we're in now, you know, 30 percent and no problem.
[14:29.560 --> 14:32.720]  Ten or 15 percent, whatever it is, take my money.
[14:32.920 --> 14:37.240]  It's crazy. And again, the Supreme Court validates you
[14:37.480 --> 14:42.720]  because I forget the name of the case, but it was one of the very early cases, probably
[14:42.960 --> 14:47.960]  in the first 50 years after the United States, the current United States Constitution
[14:47.960 --> 14:53.560]  was put in place. But the court said that was trying to define
[14:54.040 --> 14:55.960]  essentially what unalienable rights are.
[14:56.840 --> 14:59.280]  And it said that those rights, whatever they may be.
[14:59.600 --> 15:06.400]  And the court actually said it would be more tedious than impossible to make a list
[15:06.400 --> 15:08.440]  of those rights. I take it by that.
[15:08.440 --> 15:10.920]  They were saying it'd be tedious because there are so many of them.
[15:10.920 --> 15:15.840]  The list would be so long. But it said that those rights were existed
[15:16.400 --> 15:19.960]  antecedent to the formation of the states or the federal government.
[15:20.240 --> 15:26.120]  And therefore, the states and the federal government may not alter, modify
[15:26.160 --> 15:29.000]  or abolish those antecedent rights.
[15:29.600 --> 15:31.680]  So, again, the Supreme Court agrees with you.
[15:32.680 --> 15:37.280]  Yeah, you know, it's interesting how many in how many ways the Supreme Court might
[15:37.480 --> 15:40.680]  also agree and the Constitution and all the founding documents.
[15:40.680 --> 15:47.720]  And yet, in practice, there's such a vast ocean of difference here, you know,
[15:48.040 --> 15:52.920]  whether we're talking about taxation or the Second Amendment or, you know, I mean,
[15:52.920 --> 16:00.200]  pick your cause. And the difference is in 1771,
[16:01.080 --> 16:07.880]  1776, we had a robust conversation about this and we had some passion behind it.
[16:07.880 --> 16:11.080]  And we had this vision of a better thing.
[16:11.080 --> 16:16.280]  And, you know, it's that whole idea of, you know, good times create
[16:16.960 --> 16:21.400]  well, hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times
[16:21.880 --> 16:24.280]  create weak men. And we go on in this cycle.
[16:24.280 --> 16:28.920]  I think we're at the tail end of the good times create weak men kind of a scenario.
[16:29.160 --> 16:31.240]  No, nobody's challenging any of this.
[16:33.480 --> 16:38.400]  But you are. So this is really the at the crux of what I want to get to.
[16:38.400 --> 16:42.000]  Like you are here and you come from a military
[16:42.000 --> 16:45.200]  background rather than than a legal background, as I understand it.
[16:46.520 --> 16:52.080]  Well, sort of both. But in to comment directly to your point,
[16:52.640 --> 16:55.920]  somebody in an earlier interview today, somebody asked me if when I learned
[16:55.920 --> 17:00.320]  the truth of the income tax, if I felt personally betrayed.
[17:00.840 --> 17:03.440]  And I said, no, I didn't feel personally betrayed.
[17:06.160 --> 17:08.840]  But I felt once I realized
[17:09.240 --> 17:12.200]  that the United States government is doing this knowingly, willfully
[17:12.200 --> 17:14.920]  and intentionally, that the people at the top of the tax pyramid,
[17:14.920 --> 17:17.600]  the secretary of the Treasury, the undersecretaries of Treasury,
[17:18.200 --> 17:20.840]  well, not the commissioner of the IRS, because he's a political hack,
[17:20.840 --> 17:24.000]  but the chief counsel's office and so forth.
[17:24.040 --> 17:26.080]  The chief legislative draftsman.
[17:27.000 --> 17:29.400]  These people, they absolutely know what the truth is.
[17:29.880 --> 17:32.000]  Everything you're going to read an income tax shattering the mist.
[17:32.000 --> 17:35.280]  These guys know and they've known it since 1913.
[17:35.520 --> 17:39.880]  OK, so and I'll validate that in a moment.
[17:40.440 --> 17:43.640]  But when I realized that they've known this all along
[17:44.040 --> 17:48.760]  and especially right after World War Two, they started this propaganda machine
[17:48.920 --> 17:51.840]  to basically try and convince Americans that every single American
[17:51.840 --> 17:53.920]  that earns a living owes the income tax.
[17:54.920 --> 17:58.200]  They did that knowing
[17:58.440 --> 18:02.720]  that they were defrauding the American people by by disinformation.
[18:04.040 --> 18:08.120]  And at that point, I didn't feel personally betrayed.
[18:09.160 --> 18:11.360]  I felt that they had.
[18:12.920 --> 18:16.600]  Abrogated their responsibility to their masters.
[18:17.920 --> 18:20.960]  Because everyone in government is a circus, or at least they should be right,
[18:21.200 --> 18:23.560]  whether it's an elected official, an appointed official,
[18:23.920 --> 18:28.880]  they all have to take an oath and they all are there to be servants to the people.
[18:29.960 --> 18:32.120]  So when the servant comes along and says,
[18:33.600 --> 18:37.840]  Hey, man, I'm going to steal the silver from the dining room,
[18:38.080 --> 18:40.520]  the china and the silver.
[18:40.520 --> 18:44.720]  And if you say I can't steal the china and the silver,
[18:45.600 --> 18:47.920]  then I'm going to do something to fuck you up.
[18:49.800 --> 18:52.200]  OK, we're done right there.
[18:52.200 --> 18:54.360]  OK, that there's a problem.
[18:54.360 --> 18:57.960]  And that's just a sort of a common speech way of saying
[18:57.960 --> 19:00.200]  what the United States government has been doing now.
[19:00.200 --> 19:02.720]  I said I would verify that they've known all along what they're doing.
[19:02.720 --> 19:04.880]  And I'm going to explain that
[19:04.880 --> 19:07.120]  from the time the income tax was enacted.
[19:07.120 --> 19:08.640]  And I don't know if you guys are aware of this.
[19:08.640 --> 19:10.720]  You've got statutes, right?
[19:10.720 --> 19:13.960]  And but the statutes are what the Supreme Court is called
[19:14.000 --> 19:16.520]  the broad language of the statute.
[19:17.160 --> 19:20.680]  Then if it's a highly technical field like income tax,
[19:21.160 --> 19:24.000]  those laws go across to the cabinet official
[19:24.200 --> 19:26.520]  who oversees the enforcement of those laws.
[19:26.840 --> 19:29.480]  In the case of income tax, that's the secretary of the Treasury.
[19:29.920 --> 19:33.720]  The secretary of the Treasury then produces regulations
[19:34.320 --> 19:37.360]  that put the meat on the bone, that make more clear than this,
[19:37.360 --> 19:39.720]  that make things much more clear than the statute does.
[19:39.960 --> 19:43.040]  As an example, you can have a statute that's three paragraphs.
[19:43.400 --> 19:45.640]  The regulations will be eight pages.
[19:46.040 --> 19:47.880]  Does that make sense? OK.
[19:47.920 --> 19:51.160]  Now, the point the point in sharing that is
[19:52.280 --> 19:54.520]  everything you learn in income tax, shattering the mess,
[19:55.280 --> 19:58.600]  who the tax applies to, who it doesn't apply to, how it's enforced,
[19:58.600 --> 20:01.960]  what what the forms actually mean as opposed to what they say on the face.
[20:03.720 --> 20:07.320]  The regulations they state, they wrote the very first regulations
[20:07.320 --> 20:10.080]  for the income tax in 1913, and they've been writing regulations
[20:10.080 --> 20:15.240]  until this very moment, that every single regulation
[20:15.520 --> 20:18.880]  written by the legislative draftsman at the Treasury Department
[20:19.280 --> 20:24.760]  for a hundred and eleven years has stayed impeccably
[20:25.400 --> 20:28.600]  within the boundaries of what you're going to read in income tax shattering mess.
[20:29.160 --> 20:34.400]  Tell me how if if the true narrative was what the government,
[20:34.440 --> 20:36.640]  the disinformation the government puts out to the public,
[20:38.440 --> 20:40.800]  then we would see regulations that say that.
[20:41.640 --> 20:43.760]  There are no regulations that say that.
[20:44.640 --> 20:47.880]  In income tax, shattering the mess, I point out that the income
[20:48.080 --> 20:52.720]  that the income tax has been imposed on just three classes of person and nobody else.
[20:53.120 --> 20:55.800]  The regulations for one hundred and eleven years
[20:56.680 --> 21:01.920]  only talk about enforcing the income tax on those three classes of person and no one else.
[21:03.760 --> 21:08.240]  So there's no way for them to stay within
[21:08.240 --> 21:11.720]  within those boundaries for one hundred and eleven years.
[21:12.720 --> 21:14.960]  If they don't know those boundaries,
[21:15.400 --> 21:17.080]  but then they go out and tell the American people,
[21:17.080 --> 21:20.000]  I say, oh, yeah, Joe, you owe income taxes, Scott, you owe income tax,
[21:20.280 --> 21:23.760]  even though you're not within one of the three classes upon whom Congress imposed the tax.
[21:25.840 --> 21:28.120]  But and they know that when they tell you, you owe the tax,
[21:28.280 --> 21:30.480]  they know you're not within any of those classes.
[21:31.400 --> 21:34.640]  And so that was the moment that I felt.
[21:36.160 --> 21:40.520]  I think if you make enough money, yes, go ahead.
[21:41.480 --> 21:44.200]  I was going to say that that was that was the moment
[21:45.040 --> 21:47.480]  when I felt that something had to be done
[21:47.800 --> 21:51.400]  because the people in this tax structure, everyone from Congress
[21:51.400 --> 21:55.040]  to the secretary of the Treasury, the people on top of that pyramid,
[21:55.880 --> 21:59.320]  they've been doing this intentionally, and I find that intolerable.
[22:02.000 --> 22:04.320]  Right. I agree.
[22:04.320 --> 22:06.040]  Yeah, I got to apologize to the audience.
[22:06.040 --> 22:09.640]  We're having a we're plagued with a number of different technical issues this evening.
[22:10.560 --> 22:13.400]  Hopefully that doesn't take away from the content too much.
[22:14.200 --> 22:17.640]  But, you know, something really springs to mind in the forefront here.
[22:17.640 --> 22:21.880]  And that's that originally the intention of federal income tax.
[22:22.000 --> 22:24.120]  It was a temporary measure, am I right?
[22:24.240 --> 22:27.760]  And it was it was meant to expire in a period of time.
[22:28.840 --> 22:32.400]  It was temporary when it was enacted in 1862
[22:32.400 --> 22:34.800]  in order to help fund the union's war effort.
[22:35.760 --> 22:36.880]  And you're right.
[22:36.880 --> 22:40.240]  It did not sunset.
[22:41.040 --> 22:44.040]  It did, on the other hand.
[22:44.680 --> 22:47.920]  It did, on the other hand, pretty much become a dead letter.
[22:49.600 --> 22:54.360]  Congress created the office of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue back in 1862.
[22:54.640 --> 22:58.600]  But from the end of the Civil War through 1913,
[23:00.640 --> 23:01.920]  I don't know what that guy did.
[23:01.920 --> 23:05.920]  He went and played golf because there was no there was really nothing for him to pursue.
[23:06.720 --> 23:09.800]  And by the way, I should add the income tax
[23:09.800 --> 23:13.320]  that was imposed to fund the union, the Civil War,
[23:13.520 --> 23:17.360]  was only a tax on the salaries of government workers.
[23:17.360 --> 23:19.000]  It had no bearing on the public.
[23:23.840 --> 23:30.200]  Interesting. So so how did they provide for the continuation of a temporary measure?
[23:30.840 --> 23:33.240]  Because I mean, it's it's been a couple of years.
[23:33.360 --> 23:36.040]  It's been a couple of years.
[23:36.040 --> 23:39.440]  You know, we're still we're still hit with this and the rates seem to be climbing.
[23:39.800 --> 23:44.840]  There's no real accountability, by the way, on how the money's being spent this year.
[23:45.200 --> 23:48.640]  This last couple of years was a really good example with the Ukraine War.
[23:49.640 --> 23:52.360]  You know, hundreds of billions of dollars.
[23:52.360 --> 23:56.000]  You know, there's shrimp on treadmills and, you know, four million dollars
[23:56.000 --> 24:00.080]  for the flow of the study, you know, the study for the flow of ketchup, you know.
[24:00.720 --> 24:02.120]  Jesus, seriously.
[24:02.120 --> 24:05.880]  You know, we're spending I don't know if I heard that we're spending a menton,
[24:05.880 --> 24:10.400]  you know, like the tax and spend where if a truck shows up in a in a war zone
[24:10.400 --> 24:13.160]  and it's missing a lug nut, they don't send it lug nut.
[24:13.160 --> 24:14.680]  They send a replacement truck. Right.
[24:14.680 --> 24:17.960]  And on the topic of ketchup, I heard that ketchups, you know,
[24:17.960 --> 24:22.000]  the ketchups that we normally use, Heinz or those are there's
[24:22.000 --> 24:23.600]  godawful ingredients in those.
[24:23.600 --> 24:25.840]  Oh, it's tomato flavored sugar.
[24:25.840 --> 24:28.800]  Well, and God knows what else that they've done. Right.
[24:28.840 --> 24:30.560]  Yeah, that's a whole different topic.
[24:30.560 --> 24:32.800]  But but yeah, I mean, you get the point.
[24:32.800 --> 24:37.440]  It's it's the corruption game started early.
[24:37.440 --> 24:40.360]  And even though people can point this out,
[24:41.320 --> 24:44.320]  even though it's pretty obvious to anyone paying any attention at all,
[24:45.440 --> 24:47.560]  it's somehow excused.
[24:47.560 --> 24:49.880]  It's just a fact of life or death.
[24:50.320 --> 24:52.120]  You know, you go with it.
[24:52.120 --> 24:55.760]  You just I got to pay because of the threat of force.
[24:56.280 --> 25:00.000]  Well, I'm going to pay it, whether it's reasonable or not, is
[25:00.000 --> 25:03.480]  is most most people's take.
[25:03.720 --> 25:05.240]  Yeah, it's a construct. Yeah.
[25:05.240 --> 25:06.320]  And I agree with you.
[25:06.320 --> 25:09.520]  And that is one of the reasons I wrote Income Tax Shatter in the Mist,
[25:09.520 --> 25:13.840]  because the average Joe sitting home saying, you know, oh, my God,
[25:13.840 --> 25:16.560]  look at what they took out of my paycheck in the form of payroll withholding.
[25:17.720 --> 25:20.480]  They have no idea.
[25:21.960 --> 25:25.040]  When I've been sitting in restaurants or other social places
[25:25.560 --> 25:29.240]  and the conversation is struck up and somebody brings up
[25:30.600 --> 25:33.760]  I wrote the book and we start talking about it with people we don't know.
[25:35.000 --> 25:37.240]  And people will offer their
[25:38.240 --> 25:39.920]  I don't know, criticism, condemnation.
[25:39.920 --> 25:42.360]  Well, that's not true. That's not true. That's not true.
[25:43.200 --> 25:49.280]  And I'll often say, OK, can I ask you a question? Sure.
[25:50.080 --> 25:54.600]  I'll say, can you tell me not forms?
[25:55.200 --> 26:02.240]  Not publications, not letters you got in the mail, but actual law.
[26:03.800 --> 26:06.920]  How many words of tax law have you read?
[26:08.840 --> 26:11.280]  And the universal answer is, well, none.
[26:12.240 --> 26:14.360]  And so I try to be as polite as I can.
[26:15.200 --> 26:18.640]  And I say, respectfully,
[26:19.280 --> 26:21.800]  I've been looking at the tax code for 25 years.
[26:22.800 --> 26:26.480]  You haven't read a single word.
[26:27.360 --> 26:30.640]  These people that are all involved here, this conversation, this restaurant,
[26:31.960 --> 26:33.480]  whose word do you think they should take?
[26:33.480 --> 26:35.520]  Since they're not going to go read it for themselves.
[26:35.520 --> 26:38.280]  Should they take the word of the person who's been reading the tax
[26:38.280 --> 26:40.840]  code for 25 years or the person who's never read a word of it?
[26:43.680 --> 26:45.280]  So that illustrates.
[26:45.280 --> 26:48.680]  And of course, I've never had anybody say even even talking to an accountant
[26:48.680 --> 26:51.800]  in a sushi bar one day, one night, even he.
[26:52.080 --> 26:53.920]  I asked him, well, what section is this?
[26:53.920 --> 26:55.120]  What section? Where would you find that?
[26:55.120 --> 26:56.960]  Well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
[26:56.960 --> 26:58.720]  Even accountants don't read the tax law.
[26:58.720 --> 27:02.720]  So my point is that income tax
[27:02.720 --> 27:04.840]  shattering the mist solves that for people.
[27:04.840 --> 27:09.040]  You know, if somebody reads one book,
[27:09.520 --> 27:12.160]  I tell them when you're done, you'll be the expert in the room.
[27:12.160 --> 27:14.440]  Doesn't even matter whether you're sitting with a tax attorney.
[27:15.560 --> 27:17.280]  You will be the expert in the room.
[27:17.280 --> 27:19.200]  I'll tell you a quick story.
[27:19.200 --> 27:20.640]  I was involved in a phone call.
[27:20.640 --> 27:23.600]  This goes back decades ago,
[27:23.600 --> 27:28.120]  the CEO of a multinational company based in the United States. And
[27:30.080 --> 27:34.880]  he had told the three of the wealthiest men in America that were funding
[27:34.880 --> 27:37.640]  this this the primary funders for the corporation.
[27:38.800 --> 27:41.080]  He had told them he was not going to fill out a W-4, have payroll
[27:41.080 --> 27:43.480]  withholding done because he knows that the law says he does.
[27:44.600 --> 27:46.440]  He and I are still friends to this day.
[27:46.440 --> 27:50.040]  So these three very wealthy men, they had, I guess, sort of a
[27:50.240 --> 27:54.920]  you might call them a fixer, somebody who handled difficult situations for them.
[27:55.640 --> 27:57.960]  So the fixer said, OK,
[27:59.720 --> 28:03.160]  the fixer, the CEO, who is my client,
[28:04.120 --> 28:08.840]  and I were going to meet on the phone with the top tax attorney in New York
[28:08.840 --> 28:11.200]  City, a city that's got a few tax attorneys. Right.
[28:11.400 --> 28:13.560]  And her reputation was the top tax attorney.
[28:14.480 --> 28:18.280]  And she and I went at it for about 40 minutes
[28:18.960 --> 28:21.240]  and she got her clock cleaned.
[28:22.840 --> 28:25.400]  So and the reason I say that
[28:27.080 --> 28:29.960]  is that because she would say, well, it's here in the law.
[28:29.960 --> 28:32.800]  And I would say, well, exactly what section are you referring to?
[28:32.800 --> 28:34.520]  Don't tell me it's in the law.
[28:34.520 --> 28:36.600]  Give me a citation.
[28:36.600 --> 28:38.280]  And then she'd give me a citation.
[28:38.280 --> 28:41.640]  We'd, you know, we'd go on the Internet and bring it up on my computer.
[28:41.720 --> 28:44.120]  I said, well, you claim it says X.
[28:45.800 --> 28:46.800]  But I'm looking right at it.
[28:46.800 --> 28:48.520]  That's not what it says.
[28:48.520 --> 28:51.200]  Or she would say, well, it's supposed to operate like this.
[28:51.200 --> 28:55.880]  And I would say, well, the Supreme Court in case ABC,
[28:56.480 --> 28:59.200]  the Supreme Court said, that's not how it operates.
[28:59.200 --> 29:00.840]  And then we went through this time and time again.
[29:00.840 --> 29:03.280]  She did not make a single point that didn't get shot down.
[29:04.080 --> 29:07.160]  And so my point is in sharing that story
[29:07.560 --> 29:10.600]  that even the top tax attorney in the city of New York
[29:10.600 --> 29:13.200]  didn't know jack shit about the income tax.
[29:13.680 --> 29:15.800]  So when I say a person who reads income tax
[29:15.800 --> 29:19.000]  shattering the mist ends up being the expert in the room,
[29:19.640 --> 29:21.720]  that is not an exaggeration.
[29:21.720 --> 29:23.880]  And it doesn't matter who's in the room.
[29:25.080 --> 29:28.000]  But what? Well, I was just going to say, so, you know, obviously
[29:28.000 --> 29:31.840]  we're doing a live and we have people commenting and and I do want the audience
[29:31.840 --> 29:35.000]  to put some questions in here as well.
[29:35.000 --> 29:36.360]  And I have some of my own.
[29:36.400 --> 29:41.000]  And so someone I don't know if I can read the name exactly right.
[29:41.000 --> 29:43.840]  Oh, it's because the thing that lie.
[29:45.480 --> 29:48.720]  Lie, we I think I don't know if I can read it.
[29:49.000 --> 29:51.280]  Well, Liefel lawfully.
[29:51.520 --> 29:53.840]  No, you're right. Liefel.
[29:53.840 --> 29:57.080]  Well, is that a name? Is that L.Y.E.L.F.
[29:58.640 --> 30:02.320]  It's a name I've never heard of or seen or want to try and pronounce.
[30:02.320 --> 30:03.600]  But I will say this.
[30:03.640 --> 30:06.280]  Their comment is the people who enforce
[30:07.600 --> 30:11.560]  the policies don't know that taxes are voluntary.
[30:11.560 --> 30:15.840]  And you can speak to that in a moment as well and can throw you in jail,
[30:15.840 --> 30:18.440]  seize your home and your businesses.
[30:18.680 --> 30:23.760]  So what, you know, what do you say to that comment?
[30:24.440 --> 30:28.920]  OK, so first of all, there is no such thing as a voluntary tax. OK.
[30:31.080 --> 30:32.880]  And the income tax is not voluntary.
[30:32.880 --> 30:36.640]  People are very confused by the phrase voluntary compliance.
[30:36.640 --> 30:39.040]  I think we've all heard that phrase, right?
[30:39.040 --> 30:42.280]  But people are very confused about what it means because they've never
[30:42.480 --> 30:46.600]  they've never looked at the history of, say, the IRS, the history of taxation
[30:46.840 --> 30:49.600]  and the use of the word voluntary within that framework.
[30:50.000 --> 30:52.280]  What voluntary compliance means is this.
[30:53.080 --> 30:56.840]  If you've got U.S. citizens and domestic corporations
[30:56.840 --> 30:59.680]  and nonresident aliens and foreign corporations
[31:00.480 --> 31:02.600]  and they're all involved in the flow of U.S.
[31:02.600 --> 31:06.240]  source income to the nonresident alien or foreign corporation offshore.
[31:07.720 --> 31:11.160]  Because sometimes there are U.S. intermediaries involved there. OK.
[31:11.920 --> 31:16.760]  So that's a process that involves a lot of forms.
[31:17.920 --> 31:20.320]  Those forms.
[31:21.200 --> 31:25.440]  In every case, I'm aware of their their filled out voluntarily
[31:25.440 --> 31:29.040]  in good faith, OK, because people don't want to be in violation of the law.
[31:30.320 --> 31:34.440]  And then at the end of the day, there are information returns that go in.
[31:34.680 --> 31:37.600]  So Joe Blow gives me a W9. OK.
[31:37.840 --> 31:42.080]  Eventually, I'm either going to withhold or I'm going to fill out another 1099
[31:42.080 --> 31:45.640]  and send it down the road to the next guy that eventually withholding is going to be done.
[31:45.800 --> 31:48.600]  Once the withholding is done, then the withholding agent
[31:48.600 --> 31:50.560]  has to file a tax return on that.
[31:50.560 --> 31:55.400]  And that's all done without a government official.
[31:56.680 --> 31:58.200]  What are you doing? What are you doing right there?
[31:58.200 --> 32:01.080]  You do that right? Did you get it for that?
[32:01.080 --> 32:03.720]  They all do it voluntarily.
[32:03.720 --> 32:07.200]  It's a voluntary compliance. OK.
[32:08.920 --> 32:11.840]  The tax, the imposition of the tax is not voluntary.
[32:12.440 --> 32:14.360]  The payment of the tax is not voluntary.
[32:14.360 --> 32:16.600]  The filing of the return is not voluntary.
[32:17.640 --> 32:21.600]  But voluntary compliance means all the people involved
[32:22.400 --> 32:25.960]  are doing it without somebody sticking a gun in their back literally each day.
[32:26.400 --> 32:29.880]  OK. They're doing it because they know it's the right thing and it's what the law requires.
[32:29.880 --> 32:31.120]  That's voluntary compliance.
[32:31.120 --> 32:33.160]  So there is no tax. It's voluntary.
[32:34.960 --> 32:37.200]  But can they take your stuff?
[32:37.200 --> 32:40.160]  If you don't know what you're talking about, yes.
[32:40.280 --> 32:42.640]  And here's the thing.
[32:43.640 --> 32:46.760]  The average Joe who thinks he's going to,
[32:47.360 --> 32:51.040]  I don't know, get away with something with the IRS, who believes he owes the tax,
[32:51.240 --> 32:54.640]  or maybe he thinks he doesn't know the tax, but he doesn't know shit about what the law says.
[32:55.600 --> 32:57.920]  So what happens is
[32:59.040 --> 33:02.560]  he doesn't understand that there are rules to the game.
[33:02.800 --> 33:06.120]  If you want to challenge the IRS and stand upon the law, there are rules.
[33:06.840 --> 33:10.320]  If you don't, what happens if you go into a football field and you don't know the rules?
[33:10.320 --> 33:11.800]  What's going to happen to you?
[33:12.800 --> 33:15.240]  You're going to get wiped out. You're going to lose.
[33:15.240 --> 33:17.880]  So that's exactly what happens to the American people when they think
[33:17.880 --> 33:20.440]  they're going to take on the IRS and they don't know the rules.
[33:20.760 --> 33:23.920]  So what happens when you do know the rules?
[33:23.920 --> 33:25.600]  I'm just going to use one example.
[33:25.600 --> 33:27.760]  A gentleman back on the East Coast, he owns a
[33:29.280 --> 33:32.200]  auto glass replacement repair business.
[33:32.920 --> 33:35.400]  And this goes back quite a few years.
[33:35.400 --> 33:39.600]  The IRS sent him a letter, said that he owed five million dollars in taxes.
[33:39.600 --> 33:43.720]  So after he dragged himself up off the floor from shock,
[33:44.560 --> 33:48.640]  he laughed because he's like, five million is the tax I owe?
[33:49.040 --> 33:52.360]  He's like, I wish I'd made five million dollars in this business, right?
[33:52.920 --> 33:54.760]  So there are some people out there
[33:54.760 --> 33:57.200]  that are hell on wheels in administrative due process.
[33:57.840 --> 34:01.480]  So he hired one of those people who actually knows the rules
[34:01.720 --> 34:06.160]  and knows upon whom Congress has imposed the tax and who it is not. OK.
[34:06.520 --> 34:08.280]  So they went back and forth for several months.
[34:08.280 --> 34:12.200]  And in the end, the IRS not only said he didn't know five million dollars,
[34:12.200 --> 34:15.240]  the IRS agreed he didn't know a penny. OK.
[34:15.920 --> 34:18.520]  So, yes, they can take your stuff.
[34:18.520 --> 34:20.880]  If you sit on your ass, don't know what you're doing, don't
[34:23.040 --> 34:26.920]  form relationships with people who can help, such as some of these people
[34:26.920 --> 34:29.840]  who are hell on wheels on administrative due process and understand the law.
[34:30.800 --> 34:34.320]  When you do it right, the IRS
[34:34.760 --> 34:36.760]  can not act.
[34:37.320 --> 34:39.400]  They are barred from acting.
[34:39.400 --> 34:44.920]  And when somebody says, here's what your law says,
[34:44.920 --> 34:47.240]  here's your limitations.
[34:47.240 --> 34:51.160]  Oh, you're right. We were wrong. Sorry.
[34:52.360 --> 34:54.880]  But if you don't know what you're doing and you don't partner
[34:54.880 --> 34:57.160]  with others who know what they're doing, then, yeah,
[34:57.160 --> 34:58.560]  you're going to get your ass handed to you.
[34:58.560 --> 35:01.000]  And, you know, I think that's pretty much the way of life.
[35:01.000 --> 35:02.200]  If you don't know what the fuck you're doing,
[35:02.200 --> 35:04.560]  you're going to get your ass handed to you in any venue.
[35:06.840 --> 35:10.280]  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, so it happens all the time in my life.
[35:11.120 --> 35:13.720]  Well, so so, you know,
[35:13.720 --> 35:17.760]  there's some people that I know that haven't filed personal taxes in a few years.
[35:17.760 --> 35:19.920]  I won't say who they are.
[35:20.920 --> 35:24.960]  And then then there's there's people who have houses,
[35:24.960 --> 35:29.520]  they have businesses, and they're wondering, OK, what do I do?
[35:29.520 --> 35:30.840]  How do I navigate this?
[35:30.840 --> 35:37.360]  Because I don't want to get my house taken away if I don't pay certain taxes.
[35:37.360 --> 35:41.240]  Like, what is your advice to those people?
[35:41.240 --> 35:46.960]  Because that's been asked to me prior to this, you know, this interview.
[35:47.280 --> 35:50.280]  So let me what's the best way to navigate that?
[35:51.000 --> 35:53.880]  OK, let me start with this blanket statement.
[35:54.240 --> 35:56.520]  Anybody who reads income tax, when they get to the end,
[35:56.520 --> 35:58.560]  they'll know the answer to this question. OK, so.
[35:58.840 --> 36:02.160]  But I will give you the short and sweet of it now,
[36:02.160 --> 36:05.120]  because there's a lot more detail than we can get into here on this show.
[36:08.400 --> 36:12.880]  The income tax is a form driven process.
[36:13.280 --> 36:17.000]  OK, so here's an example.
[36:18.360 --> 36:20.800]  Let's say a guy is, I don't know, he's a carpet cleaner.
[36:21.560 --> 36:25.880]  So he has a lot of contracts for retail establishments and office buildings.
[36:26.680 --> 36:30.080]  So he goes in and he does a nifty job of cleaning their carpets.
[36:30.280 --> 36:33.920]  Then he sends them an invoice and then they want they pay they want to pay him.
[36:33.920 --> 36:38.840]  So they say to him, I need you to sign this W nine.
[36:39.560 --> 36:42.880]  OK, we probably all all are familiar with that.
[36:43.720 --> 36:47.480]  So I mentioned in passing a little bit ago
[36:48.000 --> 36:52.200]  that IRS forms never say on the face of the form
[36:52.800 --> 36:58.680]  what the form is really about. OK, so Americans believe
[36:58.680 --> 37:00.880]  because they've never read the law,
[37:00.880 --> 37:03.920]  they've just been socialized to believe this and such is true.
[37:04.480 --> 37:09.560]  They believe that the form W nine is to be filled out by one American business
[37:10.320 --> 37:13.200]  when it's working on behalf of another American business.
[37:13.200 --> 37:15.600]  If you want to get a check, you fill out a W nine.
[37:15.600 --> 37:16.600]  That's the way it works.
[37:16.600 --> 37:20.680]  And at the end of the year, the company that paid you sends in a ten ninety nine.
[37:20.680 --> 37:22.720]  So the IRS can keep track of what was paid to you.
[37:23.120 --> 37:25.160]  They think that's normal.
[37:25.160 --> 37:26.840]  That goes back to what we talked about earlier.
[37:26.840 --> 37:29.040]  They were born into the matrix. They don't know any better.
[37:29.280 --> 37:31.880]  OK, they don't know that the matrix is not real.
[37:32.280 --> 37:35.720]  OK, so I'm going to tell you now and again,
[37:36.280 --> 37:39.160]  a lot of people who own their own business are going to be screaming at you.
[37:39.640 --> 37:41.320]  That's not true.
[37:41.320 --> 37:44.440]  What I'm about to say when they're done reading income tax
[37:44.440 --> 37:48.200]  shatter in the midst, they're going to say, yeah, that actually is true.
[37:48.200 --> 37:53.440]  OK, so here's what a W nine really means.
[37:53.440 --> 37:56.440]  Doesn't say it on the face, but it means
[37:56.440 --> 38:00.720]  when you sign under penalty of perjury, a W nine, you are attesting
[38:02.040 --> 38:06.120]  that you are a United States citizen
[38:06.360 --> 38:10.120]  or domestic corporation who is receiving
[38:10.600 --> 38:14.680]  U.S. source income that belongs
[38:15.040 --> 38:17.640]  to a nonresident alien or foreign corporation.
[38:18.160 --> 38:21.040]  You are in this pipeline where the money is going
[38:21.040 --> 38:24.520]  from its U.S. source to its foreign owner. OK.
[38:25.320 --> 38:28.960]  That's what a W nine really legally
[38:29.840 --> 38:32.080]  communicates to the IRS.
[38:32.840 --> 38:36.440]  So when you fill out a W nine, it then authorizes
[38:37.160 --> 38:39.840]  the company you gave it to to send in a ten ninety nine
[38:39.840 --> 38:42.240]  at the end of the year to the IRS. Right.
[38:42.240 --> 38:46.920]  The ten ninety nine to the IRS, what they say when they look at that ten ninety nine,
[38:46.920 --> 38:49.400]  they say, oh, Joe, I'm going to use your name.
[38:49.640 --> 38:53.080]  They say, oh, look, we got a ten ninety nine on Joe.
[38:53.400 --> 38:56.880]  That means Joe filled out a W nine because the company couldn't give us
[38:56.880 --> 38:59.560]  this ten ninety nine unless Joe filled out a W nine.
[39:00.160 --> 39:04.040]  So Joe testified under penalty of perjury
[39:04.280 --> 39:08.400]  that this money belongs to a foreign person and he's the U.S. intermediary.
[39:08.800 --> 39:12.240]  Great. So, Mr. U.S. intermediary,
[39:12.720 --> 39:16.960]  you either need to give us a ten ninety nine showing you move the money
[39:16.960 --> 39:20.680]  further down the pipeline to the other U.S. citizen or corporation.
[39:21.600 --> 39:25.440]  Or if you didn't do that, then you are obligated
[39:25.680 --> 39:27.800]  to be a withholding agent
[39:27.800 --> 39:30.680]  on the tax the foreign guy owes on his U.S. source income.
[39:31.280 --> 39:34.800]  So since you're obligated to withhold and pay over the tax,
[39:35.120 --> 39:37.880]  where's the tax return?
[39:37.880 --> 39:42.040]  So the secretary of the Treasury
[39:42.040 --> 39:45.560]  and his Treasury decisions has said in no less than ten Treasury decisions
[39:45.800 --> 39:50.640]  in the last one hundred and eleven years that form ten forty is to be used
[39:50.640 --> 39:53.840]  by a non-resident alien with U.S. source income or the non-resident
[39:53.840 --> 39:56.080]  alien's domestic agent.
[39:56.440 --> 40:00.240]  So when the IRS says to you, where's the tax return?
[40:00.840 --> 40:03.280]  And you go, what tax return? Ten forty.
[40:04.240 --> 40:07.440]  The American thinks, oh, you mean report my own income.
[40:08.360 --> 40:10.400]  That doesn't that's not what it means.
[40:10.400 --> 40:13.400]  It means you're going to report the withholding you did
[40:14.920 --> 40:17.440]  of U.S. U.S. income tax
[40:17.440 --> 40:20.800]  on the money that belonged to the foreign person before you paid it over.
[40:21.160 --> 40:23.720]  So you withheld what was required in U.S.
[40:23.720 --> 40:27.600]  income tax, paid the foreign person what he's owed,
[40:28.160 --> 40:30.840]  which is the balance other than the income tax.
[40:30.840 --> 40:33.880]  And then on a ten forty as the domestic agent,
[40:34.400 --> 40:38.200]  you report what you withheld and you pay it over now.
[40:39.240 --> 40:41.720]  So imagine because that's what it really is.
[40:41.720 --> 40:43.440]  That's what that's what it is in law.
[40:43.440 --> 40:47.240]  That's not what people are socialized to believe, but that is what it is in law.
[40:47.600 --> 40:50.720]  So imagine suddenly you don't do that for several years.
[40:50.720 --> 40:53.280]  And for whatever reason, the government really gets a case of the ass
[40:53.280 --> 40:56.640]  and comes along and says, we're going to indict you. OK.
[40:57.880 --> 41:00.440]  The poor schmuck thinks he's being indicted
[41:00.440 --> 41:05.760]  and he's going to trial for not paying taxes on his earnings.
[41:07.240 --> 41:10.000]  Everybody else in the process knows what it really is.
[41:10.440 --> 41:14.120]  OK, but the poor dumb schmuck doesn't know what it is.
[41:14.360 --> 41:17.360]  So he's trying to defend himself by saying,
[41:17.880 --> 41:20.720]  you know, I didn't owe my income tax.
[41:21.800 --> 41:25.680]  And the U.S. attorney is is snickering and the judge is snickering.
[41:26.080 --> 41:29.280]  Is there like this got nothing to do with taxes on the money you earned?
[41:29.280 --> 41:31.240]  You're an American citizen.
[41:31.240 --> 41:35.240]  This is on the nonresident alien or foreign corporations tax money
[41:35.240 --> 41:40.680]  you withheld and never paid over, because if you hadn't withheld it,
[41:41.240 --> 41:45.080]  that means you would have filed a W-9 on the next guy you sent it to in the pipeline.
[41:46.280 --> 41:49.280]  In the absence of a 1099 showing you sent it down the road,
[41:49.520 --> 41:51.960]  then you are obligated as a withholding agent to withhold it.
[41:51.960 --> 41:54.160]  So where is it? Why didn't you pay us?
[41:55.920 --> 41:59.640]  So you see, and this goes back to what we talked about very early on in the call.
[42:00.920 --> 42:05.080]  It's what the public believes
[42:05.360 --> 42:08.440]  versus what is really taking place.
[42:09.040 --> 42:11.560]  They're so diametrically opposed.
[42:12.080 --> 42:18.280]  It's even hard for the public to appreciate that it could be that insane.
[42:18.760 --> 42:22.240]  Right. Which is why when I come on interviews like this and I tell this story,
[42:22.400 --> 42:25.160]  I say people are going to be screaming at their computer.
[42:25.480 --> 42:29.360]  That's not true, because they just can't comprehend
[42:30.440 --> 42:33.400]  that there is such a huge divergence between what they
[42:33.920 --> 42:38.240]  what they've been socialized to believe and what the law really is.
[42:38.560 --> 42:42.200]  And that's how they get fucked
[42:42.920 --> 42:44.920]  because they don't understand the law.
[42:46.040 --> 42:47.840]  And income tax center, the missile.
[42:50.040 --> 42:54.600]  Well, so so I had there's a business that Scott and I are now affiliated with.
[42:55.920 --> 42:58.040]  And I had to fill out a W-9 today.
[42:58.240 --> 43:00.240]  Is is there a way around?
[43:00.240 --> 43:04.920]  I mean, you can't you can't just say, no, I'm not going to fill out this W-9.
[43:04.920 --> 43:08.040]  Can you? I mean, how do you how do you?
[43:08.080 --> 43:11.440]  Is that is that anything that that would be?
[43:12.320 --> 43:13.120]  What do you do with that?
[43:13.120 --> 43:15.920]  There's these procedural benchmarks where it's like that.
[43:16.280 --> 43:18.000]  I can't say no.
[43:18.000 --> 43:21.400]  We can't we can't have commerce with one another without
[43:21.760 --> 43:26.160]  somehow being involved in this in this process agreement.
[43:26.760 --> 43:27.960]  But no. Yeah.
[43:27.960 --> 43:32.800]  I mean, it's it's under duress that we would, you know, facilitate this process.
[43:32.800 --> 43:35.160]  But hey, we got to do it right.
[43:35.160 --> 43:37.840]  I mean, how else are we going to?
[43:38.120 --> 43:41.080]  So I'm going to I'm going to ask I'm going to ask something which is kind of silly,
[43:41.600 --> 43:44.600]  but I'm going to ask it anyway, for illustrative purposes.
[43:45.680 --> 43:48.920]  Joe, you said today you had to provide a W-9.
[43:50.560 --> 43:54.440]  So when the person asked you to fill out a W-9,
[43:55.080 --> 43:58.280]  was this on an email, was that on a phone call?
[43:58.680 --> 43:59.680]  How did that happen?
[44:01.360 --> 44:04.720]  The phone call happened and they said,
[44:06.120 --> 44:07.920]  this is this is the procedure.
[44:07.920 --> 44:09.640]  This is what's going to happen.
[44:09.640 --> 44:11.760]  And these are the things we need you to do.
[44:11.880 --> 44:18.080]  And once you do these things, then you can be an affiliate of the company.
[44:18.080 --> 44:21.280]  And then that way, there's an agreement upon which,
[44:22.320 --> 44:27.600]  you know, if people buy something through the show, then you get your percentage.
[44:27.880 --> 44:30.480]  And it's like it's, you know, it's like standard protocol.
[44:30.480 --> 44:34.320]  So if I don't do that, then we're not going to get our
[44:35.160 --> 44:39.040]  you know, affiliate kickback for a product that we sell.
[44:39.040 --> 44:40.880]  And thank God, it's not an MLM.
[44:40.880 --> 44:42.880]  But anyway, I heard you.
[44:42.880 --> 44:44.680]  So what do you do?
[44:44.680 --> 44:47.480]  So here's my point. Here's what I'm getting to.
[44:47.480 --> 44:51.600]  So did you say and I know you didn't this just for illustrative purposes.
[44:51.600 --> 44:54.720]  Did you say, man, that that all sounds wonderful.
[44:54.720 --> 44:57.520]  Thank you so much. Oh, by the way, on the issue of the form W-9,
[44:57.520 --> 45:01.560]  I'm not a person under the regulations of the Secretary of the Treasury,
[45:01.560 --> 45:03.880]  who is the highest tax authority in all of the United States.
[45:04.040 --> 45:08.120]  I'm not a person under those regulations that's required to furnish W-9.
[45:08.680 --> 45:11.600]  I know that you request them from most people, and I appreciate that.
[45:11.600 --> 45:13.840]  And I'm sure this is a case of first impressions for you.
[45:14.040 --> 45:16.000]  I'll be happy to send you some information.
[45:16.000 --> 45:19.160]  But I'm not legally allowed to provide you with a W-9.
[45:19.880 --> 45:23.920]  Now, I know you didn't say that because you weren't aware.
[45:24.280 --> 45:27.920]  But that would be when we talk about how to do this.
[45:28.200 --> 45:31.120]  That kind of thing is the first step you take.
[45:31.360 --> 45:34.080]  And you notice when I said that, when I said, you know,
[45:35.120 --> 45:37.720]  I know it's a case of first impressions and I'm not a person
[45:37.720 --> 45:40.080]  who's permitted under the law.
[45:40.080 --> 45:42.400]  It was all very conversational.
[45:42.760 --> 45:46.400]  It wasn't like, you know, fuck you for asking me for that form.
[45:47.760 --> 45:50.160]  It's it's
[45:51.000 --> 45:52.440]  it's easy going.
[45:52.440 --> 45:54.760]  It's non confrontational.
[45:54.760 --> 45:57.080]  It's what I call neutral tone. OK.
[45:57.080 --> 45:59.600]  So my point is this.
[45:59.600 --> 46:02.360]  You can speculate about what she might have said
[46:02.880 --> 46:07.280]  in that call had you said that, but you don't know what she would have said.
[46:07.280 --> 46:09.520]  Right. Because you didn't say it.
[46:10.560 --> 46:15.800]  So and I'm sure there's a lot of people who are watching us right now saying,
[46:15.800 --> 46:17.520]  well, I know what she would have said.
[46:17.520 --> 46:19.520]  And the reality is, you don't believe me.
[46:19.520 --> 46:20.840]  I've been at this 30 years.
[46:20.840 --> 46:23.120]  You really don't know what she was going to say.
[46:23.120 --> 46:28.280]  So if she said, Ah, here's some things I've heard over the years.
[46:28.640 --> 46:32.040]  Ah, you know about that.
[46:32.080 --> 46:36.760]  Yes. My son never fills out these W9s either.
[46:36.760 --> 46:38.920]  OK. I've heard that over the years.
[46:38.920 --> 46:43.360]  I've heard, can you provide me with something that I can put in the files
[46:43.880 --> 46:48.120]  to justify why we don't have a W9 if the IRS ever comes to calling?
[46:48.280 --> 46:50.440]  Well, sure, I can do that.
[46:51.200 --> 46:53.480]  And of course, there's all sorts of gradients there.
[46:53.680 --> 46:57.120]  And of course, we get to the far end of this gradient scheme.
[46:57.400 --> 46:58.320]  And it's fucked.
[46:58.320 --> 47:01.040]  You give me the W9 or you're not getting any money. OK.
[47:02.200 --> 47:06.760]  And there are said there are ways to handle that as well.
[47:08.160 --> 47:13.400]  You know, this if we did a how to show, this would be a five hour show.
[47:14.560 --> 47:17.880]  But yes, there are there are ways to handle that. That's
[47:20.400 --> 47:22.520]  that's probably the advantage of.
[47:23.280 --> 47:26.480]  Well, I was going to say, that's probably the advantage of
[47:27.280 --> 47:30.520]  of reading the book, you know, it's like I want to protect you.
[47:30.840 --> 47:36.520]  That's my thing. When I say there are ways, my thing is I want you protected.
[47:36.760 --> 47:40.040]  OK, whether you sign a form, whether you don't sign a form,
[47:41.200 --> 47:42.840]  I want you protected.
[47:42.840 --> 47:45.800]  So if the IRS ever comes a calling, say five years, six years,
[47:45.800 --> 47:49.960]  seven years down the road and says, why didn't you file a tax return?
[47:50.440 --> 47:55.880]  OK, I want you to have an evidentiary record established.
[47:56.360 --> 48:01.440]  Who said what to who, when it was said, how it was said, in what venue it was said.
[48:02.160 --> 48:05.320]  Because remember, we talked about you can shut the government down
[48:05.320 --> 48:07.680]  administratively, and I gave you that story of that gentleman
[48:07.680 --> 48:11.400]  who had five million dollars and the IRS agreed in the end, zero,
[48:11.880 --> 48:14.640]  even though he was he was living well, very well.
[48:16.200 --> 48:18.280]  That's because he had all the evidence.
[48:18.280 --> 48:21.600]  He had an evidentiary file, an evidentiary record.
[48:21.880 --> 48:25.440]  He gave it to this gentleman who knows how to do administrative procedure.
[48:26.080 --> 48:28.680]  And the IRS went away.
[48:28.680 --> 48:33.400]  What you're talking about and, you know, you're perfect, Joe,
[48:33.560 --> 48:37.920]  to talk about this, because you are no pun intended, the average Joe. Right.
[48:38.240 --> 48:40.600]  So you don't know.
[48:41.000 --> 48:43.720]  You don't know how to create that evidentiary record
[48:44.040 --> 48:46.680]  so that if the IRS ever call comes a calling down the road,
[48:46.680 --> 48:48.920]  you can shut them down.
[48:48.920 --> 48:51.040]  But there are ways to do that.
[48:51.040 --> 48:54.200]  And yes, so your answer your questions or there's ways to tackle that.
[48:55.960 --> 48:58.920]  Right. Well, part part of our show is
[48:59.480 --> 49:02.040]  is is interacting with
[49:02.880 --> 49:06.480]  the the guests that we bring on the show in a way
[49:06.800 --> 49:11.560]  where if we're vulnerable and we share real life situations
[49:11.560 --> 49:15.520]  like I just did, you know, we we don't
[49:15.560 --> 49:17.840]  we don't necessarily know all the answers.
[49:17.840 --> 49:20.640]  And so by by presenting that component,
[49:21.160 --> 49:24.320]  you know, I think our audience is going to learn with us because
[49:24.960 --> 49:28.680]  I'll guarantee you the IRS is not going to get fucking paid
[49:28.680 --> 49:30.400]  from any of the stuff that we're doing.
[49:30.400 --> 49:31.720]  It's never going to happen.
[49:31.720 --> 49:36.160]  And I'll be reaching out to you personally to make sure that my ass is covered.
[49:36.440 --> 49:37.840]  Oh, no. Yeah.
[49:37.840 --> 49:39.960]  After the show, we'll talk about a retainer.
[49:39.960 --> 49:42.000]  Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, no.
[49:42.000 --> 49:46.360]  They they they haven't made in four fucking years for me.
[49:46.360 --> 49:50.960]  So I don't I don't mind going on the record because they can fuck off.
[49:51.240 --> 49:54.760]  And and and, you know, I'm just I'm just letting people know that
[49:55.000 --> 49:57.400]  that that's where we're that we're on the forefront
[49:57.840 --> 50:01.320]  because we didn't just want to do a show that we're just,
[50:01.320 --> 50:02.880]  you know, talking out our asses.
[50:02.880 --> 50:06.680]  We're literally putting ourselves on the line to do this stuff.
[50:06.680 --> 50:08.160]  Yeah. As an example.
[50:08.160 --> 50:11.400]  Yeah. Who doesn't love to talk about taxes on a Friday night?
[50:11.400 --> 50:13.920]  Yeah. But anyway, but a lot of people are doing them.
[50:13.920 --> 50:15.000]  A lot of people are doing them.
[50:15.000 --> 50:20.080]  So it's really prescient, you know, and it wasn't very long ago
[50:20.880 --> 50:25.040]  that people became so enraged about a three percent tax on tea
[50:25.560 --> 50:30.040]  that, you know, they stage an event that is in the annals of history.
[50:30.040 --> 50:32.000]  The Boston Tea Party. Exactly.
[50:32.000 --> 50:35.880]  And, you know, this was the kind of spirit that we had.
[50:35.880 --> 50:39.400]  And now we have people arguing for more taxes.
[50:39.400 --> 50:42.800]  We have people literally arguing for the state
[50:42.800 --> 50:45.800]  to take more of your labor, more of your income,
[50:46.960 --> 50:49.920]  you know, because it's the right under some moral precept.
[50:49.920 --> 50:51.960]  It's insanity to me.
[50:51.960 --> 50:55.160]  But but but here's the question I want to get to, you know,
[50:55.160 --> 50:59.200]  and I advocate for this loosely because, you know,
[50:59.200 --> 51:02.640]  I know this is putting a target on my back, but, you know,
[51:02.640 --> 51:06.480]  we're all pretty dissatisfied with our representative government.
[51:06.960 --> 51:08.280]  The outcomes have been terrible.
[51:08.280 --> 51:10.360]  They're getting worse every day.
[51:10.360 --> 51:15.120]  And yet we continue to fund their activities on a daily basis.
[51:15.120 --> 51:17.480]  And they traffic children with taxes.
[51:17.480 --> 51:21.040]  It would seem to be, regardless of how representative they are, that
[51:22.200 --> 51:26.440]  in essence, we hold the purse strings if we were to withhold.
[51:27.440 --> 51:30.280]  Our taxes, if we go to our department and say,
[51:30.600 --> 51:33.200]  I'll be responsible for my own taxes, thank you.
[51:33.640 --> 51:37.400]  If we if we all did this, you know, and I think the key
[51:37.400 --> 51:41.040]  is to do it on mass because, you know, otherwise somebody is going to get
[51:41.040 --> 51:45.000]  made an example of Wesley Snipes, Willie Nelson.
[51:45.040 --> 51:46.160]  You know, we can go on.
[51:46.160 --> 51:47.960]  But if we're going to talk about Wesley.
[51:50.080 --> 51:53.600]  Yeah, if we all did this in an act of dissatisfaction
[51:53.600 --> 51:58.040]  with what they're doing with our money, that is hard earned.
[51:59.160 --> 52:01.880]  You know, could that be a meaningful outcome?
[52:01.920 --> 52:04.560]  I mean, we're all always faced with the threat of force.
[52:04.560 --> 52:08.200]  I think that's the one reason nobody's willing to do this.
[52:08.400 --> 52:09.280]  But what do you think?
[52:09.280 --> 52:12.840]  Oh, what I hear you describing is basically a political action.
[52:13.560 --> 52:17.480]  And, you know, I'm I'm I'm down with political action.
[52:17.880 --> 52:23.840]  However. If everybody could just read a book and walk away safely.
[52:25.040 --> 52:28.600]  I think that. Is more palatable to everybody.
[52:28.600 --> 52:32.360]  So I want to share with you, we talked a couple of times now about how
[52:32.880 --> 52:37.000]  the public's perception is one thing and the law says something else.
[52:37.040 --> 52:41.640]  OK, so and you talked about going to the payroll department, said,
[52:41.840 --> 52:44.040]  I'll be responsible for my own taxes. Thank you.
[52:44.240 --> 52:47.680]  So that brings up we're talking now about payroll withholding, right?
[52:48.240 --> 52:53.240]  So. Is payroll withholding supposed to be done
[52:53.640 --> 52:59.080]  on the ordinary American in the private sector in any of the 50 states?
[52:59.080 --> 53:01.640]  So I want to share with you something.
[53:02.080 --> 53:05.920]  The command to withhold is at 3402 of the code.
[53:06.240 --> 53:10.600]  But in 3401, they give the definitions that are applicable
[53:11.080 --> 53:14.160]  to that law that demands withholding.
[53:14.440 --> 53:19.480]  OK, so I think anybody knows that the employer
[53:20.120 --> 53:25.480]  is required to withhold from the employee. Yes.
[53:26.320 --> 53:31.960]  OK, so I need to tell you what the word includes means in tax law.
[53:31.960 --> 53:34.120]  It has different meanings in different area of law.
[53:34.120 --> 53:40.040]  But there's a word used prominently in the tax code includes and including.
[53:40.280 --> 53:43.760]  OK, and what it means is this in a definition,
[53:44.280 --> 53:49.160]  it says such and such includes and then there's a list of items.
[53:49.560 --> 53:52.840]  OK, those list of items after the word includes
[53:53.200 --> 53:55.240]  creates a category.
[53:55.560 --> 53:57.560]  OK, so I'm going to give you an example.
[53:57.560 --> 54:01.240]  Let's say Congress passed a definition for a particular code.
[54:01.240 --> 54:03.800]  And it was the definition of food.
[54:03.800 --> 54:05.800]  That was the word being defined.
[54:05.800 --> 54:09.760]  But it said food includes strawberries,
[54:09.960 --> 54:13.920]  kiwis, blueberries and, I don't know, bananas. OK.
[54:14.640 --> 54:20.000]  What would the category be that was created by those four enumerated items?
[54:21.000 --> 54:23.600]  Would it be fruit? Fruit.
[54:23.600 --> 54:25.800]  OK, yes, it's fruit.
[54:25.800 --> 54:30.480]  OK, so the way tax law works,
[54:30.480 --> 54:34.240]  OK, once it creates the category, which is fruit,
[54:34.920 --> 54:39.800]  even though apples and peaches and pears are not enumerated,
[54:40.080 --> 54:44.880]  they are considered to be included because they fit in the established category.
[54:45.200 --> 54:47.120]  Makes sense?
[54:47.760 --> 54:49.200]  Tax law is one of the few areas
[54:49.200 --> 54:52.560]  where you can include things that are never talked about.
[54:52.560 --> 54:55.320]  But as long as the words after includes
[54:55.320 --> 55:00.040]  create a category into which those things can fit reasonably and rationally.
[55:00.040 --> 55:04.680]  OK, so now I want to read to you the definition of employee
[55:04.960 --> 55:07.280]  for the purpose of payroll withholding.
[55:07.280 --> 55:11.880]  Now, pay attention to what it says after the word includes.
[55:12.520 --> 55:15.320]  So you get what the enumerated items are.
[55:15.320 --> 55:19.040]  And then you can tell me what category you think they create with me.
[55:20.840 --> 55:22.800]  Yeah, OK.
[55:22.800 --> 55:27.480]  All right. This is employee for the purpose of payroll withholding.
[55:28.480 --> 55:31.120]  For the purpose of this chapter, the term employee
[55:31.520 --> 55:35.160]  includes an officer, employee or elected official of the United States,
[55:35.160 --> 55:39.360]  a state or any political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia
[55:39.560 --> 55:43.640]  or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing.
[55:46.120 --> 55:50.320]  So if you had to determine what the category was
[55:51.240 --> 55:54.760]  based on the bulleted items, you want me to read the bulleted items again?
[55:56.320 --> 55:58.760]  OK, here goes. Yeah, one more time.
[55:58.800 --> 56:02.320]  Let's do it one more time. Sure. No, no, this is a case of first impressions
[56:02.320 --> 56:04.200]  for you guys, so I totally get it.
[56:04.200 --> 56:06.400]  Employee includes.
[56:08.360 --> 56:11.480]  Officers, employees or elected official of the United States, a state
[56:11.480 --> 56:14.560]  or a political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia
[56:14.560 --> 56:19.480]  or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing.
[56:22.080 --> 56:25.160]  Would you say that the category
[56:25.160 --> 56:30.120]  being established there is various government entities?
[56:31.520 --> 56:35.000]  Yes, yes. OK. And you'd be right.
[56:36.480 --> 56:40.040]  So the definition of employee for the purpose of payroll withholding
[56:40.600 --> 56:44.760]  is that the employee is somebody who works for
[56:45.480 --> 56:48.640]  various government entities.
[56:49.400 --> 56:52.960]  OK, they be agencies or instrumentalities.
[56:54.480 --> 56:58.120]  So then you have to ask yourself, you know, somebody, I don't know.
[56:58.800 --> 57:01.720]  Susie Rottencratsch is the receptionist at a dental office.
[57:03.080 --> 57:07.800]  And the the payroll department is withholding from her paycheck
[57:07.840 --> 57:11.440]  because she's an employee.
[57:12.440 --> 57:15.120]  Based on the law, Congress passed, because that's the only thing
[57:15.120 --> 57:19.560]  that's relevant here is what the law says, not what the gallon accounting thinks,
[57:19.880 --> 57:23.120]  not what the CFO thinks, not what the payroll company thinks.
[57:23.120 --> 57:24.920]  None of that is really relevant.
[57:24.920 --> 57:27.320]  Now, it may be significant, but it's not relevant.
[57:29.120 --> 57:32.920]  All that's relevant is what does this from whom does the statute
[57:32.920 --> 57:35.120]  allow the withholding to be affected upon?
[57:35.120 --> 57:38.840]  It only allows it to be affected upon employees,
[57:39.080 --> 57:42.240]  which, as you just heard with your own ears,
[57:42.720 --> 57:47.160]  is people who work for various government entities, agencies
[57:47.320 --> 57:50.640]  and instrumentality, specifically of the federal government,
[57:50.640 --> 57:53.040]  state governments or any of the possessions and territories,
[57:53.280 --> 57:56.520]  any place that's under the exclusive legislative jurisdiction of Congress,
[57:56.760 --> 57:59.640]  which is not the 50 states. OK.
[58:00.320 --> 58:03.800]  So that's definitely not who we work for.
[58:03.800 --> 58:07.760]  No, I mean, have I been involuntary conscripted to some scheme
[58:07.760 --> 58:10.760]  that I'm unaware of, nor did I lend my consent to?
[58:10.760 --> 58:12.760]  I mean, how did I end up?
[58:12.760 --> 58:15.200]  Absolutely. Well, there we go.
[58:15.200 --> 58:16.200]  Well, there you go.
[58:16.200 --> 58:17.880]  I know it was kind of a redundant.
[58:17.880 --> 58:19.360]  Right. Very well said, though.
[58:19.360 --> 58:22.440]  Well, I'm just saying, Joe and I have to think about the W.
[58:23.080 --> 58:25.640]  Yeah, we're getting Joe and I are getting real cozy tonight.
[58:25.640 --> 58:27.240]  I'll tell you. Yeah.
[58:27.240 --> 58:28.520]  Thank you, Riverside.
[58:28.520 --> 58:30.880]  We will never be using Riverside again.
[58:30.880 --> 58:33.560]  It's something along those lines. Oh, my God. Yeah.
[58:33.960 --> 58:37.000]  Joe, you anyway, we should be kind of down there to be said
[58:37.320 --> 58:39.960]  in response to a W nine. That was your question. Right.
[58:40.440 --> 58:42.000]  So now let's look at this.
[58:42.000 --> 58:44.360]  Let's look at the same issue with a W four.
[58:45.520 --> 58:47.920]  So I just wrote this is I mean, you can pull up on that.
[58:47.920 --> 58:51.400]  You can sit down with the accounting person and pull this up on your phone
[58:51.680 --> 58:56.840]  and show them here's what the definition of employee is. OK.
[58:57.920 --> 59:00.000]  And say.
[59:00.280 --> 59:04.480]  And this was actually I did a call decades ago with a client.
[59:05.440 --> 59:10.160]  And during the first two, two minutes or so of the call,
[59:10.840 --> 59:13.760]  the payroll gal for this company said probably four times,
[59:13.920 --> 59:16.080]  I have to withhold from Thomas the law.
[59:17.320 --> 59:20.560]  And the fourth in most the first three times, I was like, oh, yeah.
[59:20.560 --> 59:22.000]  You know, how are you? How's things been?
[59:22.000 --> 59:24.360]  You know, just trying to be a little gracious at the outset.
[59:24.360 --> 59:27.560]  After the fourth time, she said that I said, you know, I'm so so glad
[59:27.880 --> 59:31.360]  that you've said that four times now, because the fact that you focused
[59:31.360 --> 59:35.440]  on the law four times tells me, you know, the law.
[59:35.440 --> 59:37.920]  And that makes this call so much easier.
[59:37.920 --> 59:42.600]  So if you wouldn't mind, can you please cite that law for me?
[59:46.840 --> 59:49.680]  And of course, her
[59:49.680 --> 59:52.200]  response was cited for you.
[59:52.640 --> 59:55.000]  No, I can't cite it for you.
[59:55.600 --> 59:58.040]  I said, OK, you know what, I've been doing this a long time.
[59:58.320 --> 01:00:01.920]  So perhaps if you could just tell me,
[01:00:02.360 --> 01:00:06.360]  like in sort of layman's terms of what it says, but try and try
[01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:09.120]  and be a little bit specific to the language of the statute.
[01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:11.160]  If you could tell me that I've been doing this for a long time.
[01:00:11.160 --> 01:00:14.000]  I'll know which section you're talking about and we can go there and look.
[01:00:17.640 --> 01:00:23.360]  She's like, no, I can't tell you, like, like word for word, what it says.
[01:00:25.080 --> 01:00:29.240]  So I said, that's OK.
[01:00:29.960 --> 01:00:31.120]  I know where it is.
[01:00:31.120 --> 01:00:32.560]  You don't have to know.
[01:00:32.560 --> 01:00:34.160]  I said, are you sitting in front of a computer?
[01:00:34.160 --> 01:00:35.760]  Yes, I am. All right.
[01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:38.360]  So I want you to type in in your search and your search bar.
[01:00:38.360 --> 01:00:41.400]  I want you to type in 26 USC 3402
[01:00:42.200 --> 01:00:44.560]  and let that section.
[01:00:44.560 --> 01:00:47.120]  So she so she does.
[01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:52.440]  So I tell you, OK, if you scroll down to subsection C,
[01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:54.960]  you're going to see the definition of employee.
[01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:58.920]  Now, I did not even bother to explain includes to her. OK.
[01:00:59.960 --> 01:01:02.480]  So I told her, I said, I want you to read the description
[01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:05.720]  of people in that statute.
[01:01:05.720 --> 01:01:10.200]  The description of people that are considered by Congress in the law,
[01:01:10.200 --> 01:01:12.840]  it passed to be employees.
[01:01:13.240 --> 01:01:16.000]  Will you read that out loud for me?
[01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:19.840]  So she she reads it out loud.
[01:01:20.520 --> 01:01:23.800]  Oh, and when she when she was done, I said, OK.
[01:01:25.240 --> 01:01:27.840]  So no matter how much you want to twist,
[01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:31.920]  destroy, mangle those words that you just read.
[01:01:33.680 --> 01:01:37.160]  Is there any way you can make a case that they apply to Tom
[01:01:37.160 --> 01:01:38.920]  that works at your company?
[01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:43.040]  That he's the employee as defined by Congress.
[01:01:45.120 --> 01:01:47.040]  Her response to me was,
[01:01:47.040 --> 01:01:49.960]  I don't want to talk to you about the law anymore.
[01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:57.120]  Now, I will tell you, this story had a happy ending
[01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:01.760]  because this was a medium sized company.
[01:02:02.160 --> 01:02:05.040]  And Tom had been working for the company for many years
[01:02:05.040 --> 01:02:07.880]  and he was a valued employee.
[01:02:07.880 --> 01:02:12.880]  So what eventually happened was just I would never speak to anybody
[01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:16.480]  like this, this accounting woman, unless the client was on the call
[01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:18.680]  because I discovered early on, sometimes they lie
[01:02:18.680 --> 01:02:21.000]  after we get off the phone about what was said.
[01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:23.640]  So Tom's on the call. He heard that.
[01:02:23.640 --> 01:02:25.960]  So Tom, I think her name was Beth.
[01:02:26.840 --> 01:02:29.520]  They sat down with the owner of the company.
[01:02:29.520 --> 01:02:32.120]  And Tom said, here's what happened.
[01:02:32.120 --> 01:02:34.600]  And the owner said to Beth,
[01:02:34.600 --> 01:02:37.280]  is that true? Is that how that went down?
[01:02:38.520 --> 01:02:40.200]  And she said, yes.
[01:02:40.840 --> 01:02:44.600]  He said, OK, you've been doing payroll for 20 years.
[01:02:44.800 --> 01:02:47.200]  You didn't know where the law was.
[01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:49.280]  You couldn't cite it.
[01:02:49.280 --> 01:02:51.600]  You didn't know what words it said.
[01:02:51.600 --> 01:02:55.760]  And when you were forced to read the words it said,
[01:02:56.240 --> 01:02:59.840]  you could not explain how this embraces Tom.
[01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:03.640]  Effective immediately, we're no longer withholding from Tom.
[01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:10.600]  OK, so that owner was intelligent and had character and integrity.
[01:03:11.600 --> 01:03:13.360]  He's somewhat anomalous.
[01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:15.680]  He's not the average shitbag American.
[01:03:15.680 --> 01:03:19.040]  So but that that's that's right.
[01:03:19.040 --> 01:03:20.600]  You'd have to. Yeah.
[01:03:20.600 --> 01:03:23.600]  Maybe I should say he's not the not not the quintessential
[01:03:23.600 --> 01:03:25.800]  anti-American American.
[01:03:27.320 --> 01:03:29.680]  Right. Well, when you when you said it had a happy ending,
[01:03:29.680 --> 01:03:32.360]  I wonder if she worked for an Asian spa, but.
[01:03:36.480 --> 01:03:38.720]  Wow. So, you know,
[01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:41.480]  you actually you make you make
[01:03:42.680 --> 01:03:48.240]  you make this whole tax concept a lot more fun because, you know,
[01:03:48.240 --> 01:03:51.760]  it's I've been wondering, I've been wondering about this.
[01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:56.840]  You know, I have this kind of rebel component to I've had it my whole life.
[01:03:56.840 --> 01:03:59.240]  And I think Scott has as well.
[01:03:59.240 --> 01:04:05.280]  But when you worse, yeah, when you when you start interviewing people,
[01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:09.440]  that actually, you know, it's not just, you know, hypothetical.
[01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:12.280]  Or I think that, you know, it's out here in the ether.
[01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:15.680]  But when you've done your due diligence and you've done your research
[01:04:15.680 --> 01:04:20.760]  and you know your shit and and you're validating and verifying
[01:04:21.240 --> 01:04:25.880]  these things that we, you know, obviously, you know, with 1913
[01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:29.680]  and Jekyll Island and the Federal Reserve and you know, it's just
[01:04:29.680 --> 01:04:31.440]  there's there's something that doesn't add up.
[01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:33.800]  And you know, you know, you know, you know,
[01:04:33.800 --> 01:04:34.720]  it doesn't add up.
[01:04:34.720 --> 01:04:37.640]  And I guess what I'm saying is you've done your research.
[01:04:37.640 --> 01:04:43.200]  And so if people are questioning this stuff, you know, you're going to appeal
[01:04:43.600 --> 01:04:47.720]  to people, I would think, that are at least wondering
[01:04:47.720 --> 01:04:50.280]  if something's not adding up here.
[01:04:50.560 --> 01:04:54.360]  And so when they when they read your book and they hear interviews like this,
[01:04:55.240 --> 01:04:58.520]  they can go, OK, well, this guy, this guy gets it.
[01:04:58.720 --> 01:05:02.560]  And then you you have the the goods to back it up.
[01:05:02.560 --> 01:05:05.120]  I think that's what's so great about having him on the show.
[01:05:05.120 --> 01:05:06.400]  So absolutely.
[01:05:06.400 --> 01:05:10.360]  And I mean, you're the one guy I get asked this question that I've always had.
[01:05:10.360 --> 01:05:14.640]  And I mean, I kind of do a soft push on this all the time on the show.
[01:05:14.680 --> 01:05:16.120]  You don't have to tonight.
[01:05:16.120 --> 01:05:17.240]  Not well. Yeah.
[01:05:17.240 --> 01:05:21.800]  But I mean, you know, I don't want to get an audit tomorrow because of, you know,
[01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:25.680]  but but but but but honestly, his last name is champion.
[01:05:25.720 --> 01:05:27.120]  Yeah, I know. Exactly.
[01:05:27.120 --> 01:05:29.520]  OK, please. That's spectacular.
[01:05:29.520 --> 01:05:32.240]  No, but I mean, you know, I brought up the the Boston Tea Party.
[01:05:32.240 --> 01:05:35.760]  You know, I talk about, you know, a lot of people are feeling a lot of outrage.
[01:05:35.760 --> 01:05:40.200]  But, you know, I say if you just don't comply,
[01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:42.200]  you don't even need to raise your voice.
[01:05:42.200 --> 01:05:45.200]  You just say, no, it's that simple.
[01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:48.320]  And the first place to do it is with taxes,
[01:05:48.320 --> 01:05:50.440]  because that's what's funding all this nonsense.
[01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:55.400]  Problem is, I don't know if that's entirely true because of the because money
[01:05:55.400 --> 01:05:59.360]  printer go burr and because Ukraine money laundering scheme.
[01:05:59.600 --> 01:06:03.920]  So I don't know if it would be as effective as I think it in principle,
[01:06:04.160 --> 01:06:06.920]  if we all just said, fuck, no.
[01:06:08.080 --> 01:06:12.160]  Tomorrow, well, you know, some some wheels would grind to a halt,
[01:06:12.160 --> 01:06:13.480]  I think, in a lot of ways.
[01:06:13.480 --> 01:06:17.400]  And I think we probably revisit the idea of what representative government
[01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:21.160]  really means or this whole concept of, you know, democracy
[01:06:21.160 --> 01:06:22.800]  and how it applies to a republic.
[01:06:22.800 --> 01:06:26.080]  But is any of that meaningful?
[01:06:26.080 --> 01:06:27.520]  I mean, are we too far gone?
[01:06:27.520 --> 01:06:30.080]  Is it just criminals running the
[01:06:30.080 --> 01:06:33.040]  you know, run in the country to this point until we finally wake up?
[01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:36.080]  Where are we in all this?
[01:06:36.080 --> 01:06:38.240]  OK, so that's a lot of questions, I'm sorry.
[01:06:39.120 --> 01:06:41.680]  That's fine. Let me share with you the consequences.
[01:06:42.080 --> 01:06:45.120]  If by the way, the same thing is true with business taxes.
[01:06:45.640 --> 01:06:50.000]  The Form 1120, the company's file, that's the 1040,
[01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:52.320]  if you will, for companies rather than people.
[01:06:53.200 --> 01:06:54.400]  The same thing is true.
[01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:56.000]  It's still the same thing
[01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:58.280]  we talked about with the non-residential and foreign corporations.
[01:06:58.280 --> 01:07:01.320]  So it's a scam where there's individuals or businesses.
[01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:04.000]  So to your question, Scott,
[01:07:04.680 --> 01:07:09.120]  if everybody in the country, the businesses and the citizens
[01:07:09.480 --> 01:07:14.800]  just said, let's say right now today in 2024, because April 15th is coming.
[01:07:14.800 --> 01:07:18.760]  Right. They just said, we're done.
[01:07:19.920 --> 01:07:22.760]  You're not getting a penny anymore from us.
[01:07:23.640 --> 01:07:26.480]  So there's a reason that the income tax
[01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:29.920]  and the Federal Reserve Act were passed in the same year,
[01:07:29.920 --> 01:07:34.280]  in the same congressional session, by the same Congress in 1913.
[01:07:35.200 --> 01:07:38.480]  The reason is that income tax
[01:07:38.760 --> 01:07:41.880]  is what pays the interest on the national debt.
[01:07:42.400 --> 01:07:45.800]  OK, from the banks of the Federal Reserve.
[01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:47.320]  OK. Right.
[01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:49.800]  Who prints money? Yeah, yes.
[01:07:50.520 --> 01:07:54.480]  But the bankers still want it's a scam.
[01:07:55.320 --> 01:07:57.760]  It is. But the bankers want their interest.
[01:07:57.920 --> 01:08:00.360]  That's how banks function, right? When they make a loan.
[01:08:00.920 --> 01:08:03.760]  Doesn't matter who it's to. They want their interest.
[01:08:03.760 --> 01:08:07.240]  So the income tax was established
[01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:09.760]  same year, Federal Reserve Act, Income Tax Act.
[01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:12.120]  So the income tax collected from the American people
[01:08:12.120 --> 01:08:16.040]  could be used to pay the interest on to the Federal Reserve. OK.
[01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:21.080]  So if everybody stopped paying their income tax.
[01:08:23.480 --> 01:08:27.320]  What would banks start doing in terms of loans?
[01:08:28.360 --> 01:08:30.760]  If customers said, yeah, I'm happy to take out that
[01:08:30.760 --> 01:08:33.640]  $50,000 loan to get that car, but you're not getting any interest.
[01:08:35.200 --> 01:08:36.600]  What would happen?
[01:08:37.880 --> 01:08:40.840]  The bank would say, oh, we're not the bank would say
[01:08:40.840 --> 01:08:42.360]  we're not getting any interest.
[01:08:42.360 --> 01:08:44.880]  Here's your fucking loan. OK.
[01:08:44.880 --> 01:08:48.640]  So that's the same thing at the bank.
[01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:51.880]  Remember, the Federal Reserve Board is is a government agency.
[01:08:52.200 --> 01:08:54.600]  The banks of the Federal Reserve are not.
[01:08:55.640 --> 01:08:58.000]  A very important distinction.
[01:08:58.000 --> 01:09:01.880]  The Federal Reserve Board is a government agency.
[01:09:02.160 --> 01:09:05.360]  The banks of the Federal Reserve are private.
[01:09:06.240 --> 01:09:10.080]  So if if everybody stopped paying their income tax,
[01:09:10.400 --> 01:09:14.120]  so the secretary of the Treasury contacted the heads
[01:09:14.120 --> 01:09:16.320]  of all the various Federal Reserve banks around the country
[01:09:17.200 --> 01:09:20.560]  and said, sorry, guys, we're not going to be able
[01:09:20.560 --> 01:09:23.040]  to pay you your interest on the debt anymore.
[01:09:24.760 --> 01:09:28.000]  What would happen is the banks would say, gotcha.
[01:09:28.400 --> 01:09:30.000]  We understand.
[01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.720]  I hope you're bringing enough money in with taxation
[01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:35.680]  because you're not getting any more loans from us.
[01:09:36.840 --> 01:09:38.040]  OK, the bank.
[01:09:38.040 --> 01:09:40.800]  So in a very real sense, this
[01:09:41.800 --> 01:09:45.120]  overreaching of authority by the federal government,
[01:09:45.120 --> 01:09:47.400]  the federal government getting involved in everybody's business
[01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:51.120]  all across this country, all across the world, playing the world's placement.
[01:09:51.320 --> 01:09:55.360]  All of that that relies on the government being able to go out
[01:09:55.360 --> 01:09:57.480]  and borrow, borrow, borrow, borrow, borrow.
[01:09:58.160 --> 01:09:59.240]  OK, right.
[01:09:59.240 --> 01:10:02.440]  If the government if the government can't borrow
[01:10:03.240 --> 01:10:06.880]  because the bankers that are lending are no longer going to be getting their interest.
[01:10:06.880 --> 01:10:09.680]  So they have no reason to continue lending.
[01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:12.800]  The only reason they ever lended was to get the interest. Right.
[01:10:13.280 --> 01:10:16.880]  And the United States government has typically been seen as a guarantee.
[01:10:17.120 --> 01:10:19.880]  People might fail to make their payment on their house or their car,
[01:10:19.960 --> 01:10:21.560]  but the government's never going to default.
[01:10:21.560 --> 01:10:24.120]  It's going to keep paying that interest, even if they have to restructure it.
[01:10:24.480 --> 01:10:26.840]  They know that. So it's it's it's a sure thing.
[01:10:27.640 --> 01:10:31.840]  But if the citizen said no more income tax for you, Mr.
[01:10:31.840 --> 01:10:34.560]  government, the government would have to say to the banks
[01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:36.800]  of the Federal Reserve, no more interest.
[01:10:37.320 --> 01:10:39.560]  At that point, the banks of the Federal Reserve would say,
[01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:42.200]  no more loans.
[01:10:42.200 --> 01:10:44.880]  So what would happen is the government
[01:10:45.720 --> 01:10:50.240]  would have to contract to only providing those services
[01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:54.160]  that it's it's real tax base, things like alcohol taxes
[01:10:54.160 --> 01:10:57.640]  and legitimate taxes, import taxes, tariffs.
[01:10:58.800 --> 01:11:01.440]  All the taxes the government.
[01:11:02.240 --> 01:11:05.200]  Levied and collected prior to the income tax.
[01:11:05.560 --> 01:11:09.040]  OK, plus several of the others that they've instituted over the years
[01:11:09.040 --> 01:11:10.520]  that are not income tax.
[01:11:10.520 --> 01:11:13.200]  All of that take the income tax out of the mix.
[01:11:13.280 --> 01:11:16.120]  The federal government would have to survive and exist
[01:11:16.720 --> 01:11:19.840]  just on those taxes alone.
[01:11:20.400 --> 01:11:23.360]  So when people, especially people who are on the political right
[01:11:23.360 --> 01:11:25.200]  who say the government's too big, it's out of control.
[01:11:25.200 --> 01:11:26.440]  We need smaller government.
[01:11:26.440 --> 01:11:27.800]  Get out of our lives.
[01:11:27.800 --> 01:11:30.400]  That's the that's the right wing mantra. Yes.
[01:11:31.040 --> 01:11:32.400]  I don't know that they necessarily agree with it,
[01:11:32.400 --> 01:11:35.080]  because I've seen a lot of right wing politicians who vote for never ending
[01:11:35.080 --> 01:11:38.760]  spending, but that's the right wing dogma. Right.
[01:11:39.400 --> 01:11:40.280]  How do you do that?
[01:11:40.280 --> 01:11:43.760]  The way to do that is you stop making your income tax payments.
[01:11:43.760 --> 01:11:45.640]  Now, the beautiful thing about this
[01:11:45.640 --> 01:11:48.280]  is that it's not an act of civil disobedience.
[01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:53.600]  Civil disobedience, you know, it has its upsides and its downsides
[01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:55.800]  and potentially can be a problem.
[01:11:55.800 --> 01:11:58.040]  This is not civil disobedience.
[01:11:58.040 --> 01:12:01.440]  This is educate yourself and stop filing the fucking return.
[01:12:01.680 --> 01:12:03.280]  It's that simple.
[01:12:03.280 --> 01:12:05.840]  It's pragmatism. It's pragmatism.
[01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:10.520]  It's no, it's it's not standing up against the government
[01:12:10.520 --> 01:12:13.200]  when you obey the law.
[01:12:13.840 --> 01:12:15.920]  OK, it's not civil disobedience.
[01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:20.120]  So my thing is I they say again, roughly 100 million people
[01:12:20.120 --> 01:12:21.560]  file 10 40s a year.
[01:12:21.560 --> 01:12:24.160]  I'm like, I want 100 million people to read income tax
[01:12:24.440 --> 01:12:26.600]  shattering the mist and stop.
[01:12:28.480 --> 01:12:31.760]  Because that will cause the United States, the federal government
[01:12:31.760 --> 01:12:35.480]  to have to contract back down, I think it's probably impossible
[01:12:35.480 --> 01:12:40.080]  to speculate exactly how far it would have to contract,
[01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:43.040]  but it would have to contract quite a bit.
[01:12:43.040 --> 01:12:46.760]  It would no longer just be able to just, you know,
[01:12:46.760 --> 01:12:48.760]  spit that money out endlessly.
[01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:52.480]  It couldn't because it wouldn't get any more loans.
[01:12:52.480 --> 01:12:55.640]  You mean, so what you're saying is, is if people just didn't
[01:12:56.200 --> 01:12:59.480]  pay their income tax, is that what you're saying?
[01:12:59.480 --> 01:13:01.440]  Well, yeah, that's what we're learning.
[01:13:01.440 --> 01:13:04.280]  Well, I'm not saying people because people might include.
[01:13:04.320 --> 01:13:06.920]  OK, people might include those who actually owe the tax.
[01:13:07.200 --> 01:13:11.440]  What I'm saying is American citizens earning their own domestic income
[01:13:11.760 --> 01:13:14.760]  in one of the 50 states should learn what the law says.
[01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:17.160]  Stop filing, stop paying.
[01:13:18.040 --> 01:13:21.960]  Right. So I want question for someone that asked me this.
[01:13:22.920 --> 01:13:27.200]  There is a rule that apparently if someone has
[01:13:29.440 --> 01:13:33.440]  you know, investments and they they have to
[01:13:34.160 --> 01:13:38.400]  sell a certain amount of their stocks per year
[01:13:39.440 --> 01:13:45.040]  in order to appease regulations, and then they're they're taxed.
[01:13:45.040 --> 01:13:46.360]  And this is in retirement.
[01:13:46.360 --> 01:13:51.320]  Then they're taxed 20 percent, 20 some percent on this.
[01:13:51.640 --> 01:13:54.200]  So putting capital gains.
[01:13:54.200 --> 01:13:59.160]  Yeah. Yeah. So basically, this person is forced to sell some of their stocks.
[01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:02.920]  If you obey, I forget the exact reason.
[01:14:03.080 --> 01:14:06.280]  But then they're taxed on having to sell these stocks.
[01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:11.880]  And it's to do with children and finances and family stuff and all that.
[01:14:11.880 --> 01:14:16.000]  So I guess my question is. Yes.
[01:14:16.080 --> 01:14:18.120]  Thank you. OK. OK.
[01:14:19.280 --> 01:14:20.840]  So what's the question about 401K?
[01:14:20.840 --> 01:14:22.720]  So what do you?
[01:14:23.400 --> 01:14:29.000]  Yeah, so so well, I'm not sure if exactly if it's 401K
[01:14:29.240 --> 01:14:33.440]  or if it's a someone that has investments
[01:14:33.760 --> 01:14:36.880]  and each year they have to sell a certain amount, it's about 100 grand.
[01:14:36.880 --> 01:14:39.880]  And then the government gets their 20 percent of that.
[01:14:39.880 --> 01:14:44.920]  So so by by giving this by this person, giving their
[01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:50.680]  children the 100 grand, they're taxed 20 percent on this.
[01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:53.800]  Is there any way out of that or what would you suggest on that?
[01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:57.480]  To clarify, so you're saying due to the tax liability,
[01:14:58.480 --> 01:15:02.400]  the person has to liquidate a portion of their
[01:15:03.560 --> 01:15:06.760]  their investment in order to accommodate the liability.
[01:15:06.760 --> 01:15:09.000]  So they're forced to whittle away at their investment
[01:15:09.360 --> 01:15:12.160]  to meet the demands of the tax burden. Right.
[01:15:12.160 --> 01:15:14.920]  And then they have to pay 20 percent on on that.
[01:15:15.400 --> 01:15:17.640]  Yeah, exactly. That they're giving to their.
[01:15:18.120 --> 01:15:20.320]  Did that clarify things?
[01:15:20.320 --> 01:15:25.160]  It does. And to my knowledge, that is not a current legal requirement.
[01:15:25.160 --> 01:15:29.480]  Now, I know that Congress passed a law during the Trump administration
[01:15:30.280 --> 01:15:33.440]  and the Biden administration has been attempting to put it into effect
[01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:40.840]  in which they're saying that you owe tax on unrealized gains. OK.
[01:15:41.680 --> 01:15:43.320]  That is headed to the Supreme Court.
[01:15:43.320 --> 01:15:46.160]  And I don't mean that in the sense that someday it will get there.
[01:15:46.520 --> 01:15:50.040]  It's there. They're going to decide that case this session. OK.
[01:15:50.600 --> 01:15:54.040]  And what they're going to say is, no, this is unconstitutional
[01:15:54.360 --> 01:15:57.840]  because the Supreme Court in its evaluation of income tax
[01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:02.800]  from 1916 forward in innumerable cases
[01:16:03.200 --> 01:16:07.640]  has said for those upon whom the tax has been imposed,
[01:16:08.560 --> 01:16:13.960]  it's only on gains separated from capital.
[01:16:14.920 --> 01:16:18.920]  OK. So so if you have 100, if you
[01:16:20.440 --> 01:16:23.200]  will use stocks as an example, you purchase one hundred thousand dollars
[01:16:23.200 --> 01:16:26.760]  of Apple stock and Apple stock ends up down the road a bit.
[01:16:27.400 --> 01:16:29.640]  Your stock is now worth four hundred thousand dollars.
[01:16:31.200 --> 01:16:34.440]  What the Biden administration is attempting to do with this Trump
[01:16:34.440 --> 01:16:39.960]  era statute is say, oh, you had three hundred thousand dollars engaged.
[01:16:40.640 --> 01:16:43.200]  Apple still got your money. OK.
[01:16:43.200 --> 01:16:47.520]  But what the administration is attempting to do is say, you now owe right now.
[01:16:47.520 --> 01:16:52.280]  You now owe us tax on the three hundred thousand dollars Apple still has. OK.
[01:16:52.440 --> 01:16:56.480]  Exactly. And that's before the Supreme Court right now.
[01:16:56.520 --> 01:16:57.400]  They're going to decide it.
[01:16:57.400 --> 01:17:01.280]  And I will tell you, they're going to reference about four separate
[01:17:01.280 --> 01:17:07.280]  U.S. Supreme Court cases from like 1916 through about 1933,
[01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:12.840]  in which the court says that it that the only thing that meets
[01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:16.440]  the definition of income for the purpose of the income tax
[01:17:16.440 --> 01:17:20.720]  acts is there were several of them there in a couple of years is
[01:17:22.400 --> 01:17:24.760]  increases to the capital
[01:17:25.520 --> 01:17:28.120]  once separated from the capital
[01:17:28.760 --> 01:17:31.920]  and taken for the investor's personal use and benefit.
[01:17:32.360 --> 01:17:38.080]  OK. And in one case, in one case, the court says something and I'm paraphrasing.
[01:17:38.440 --> 01:17:44.080]  We have consistently refused to engage in debate from lexographers and so forth.
[01:17:44.280 --> 01:17:48.400]  And we have we have it is a well settled point of law that this
[01:17:48.560 --> 01:17:51.760]  and this alone defines income subjects of taxation.
[01:17:52.760 --> 01:17:55.720]  OK, so the Supreme Court has been
[01:17:56.360 --> 01:17:59.120]  and we're talking about the Supreme Court, you know.
[01:17:59.120 --> 01:18:04.920]  90 years ago, but the Supreme Court has been crystal clear on this.
[01:18:05.200 --> 01:18:11.880]  And I don't imagine the current Supreme Court is going to jettison several
[01:18:12.760 --> 01:18:16.720]  clearly stated doctrinal cases that control the entire issue.
[01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:19.760]  I can't imagine the court just saying, oh, yeah, forget all that.
[01:18:19.880 --> 01:18:21.800]  Forget all those decisions that were made back then.
[01:18:21.800 --> 01:18:24.240]  We're going to we're going to declare income something totally different now.
[01:18:24.440 --> 01:18:27.960]  I don't imagine, especially when you've got five originalists on the court.
[01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:31.680]  Well, four originalists and somebody who leans right now and again.
[01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:37.000]  Well, you know, that's interesting how that would play out with digital assets.
[01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:39.640]  You know, the idea that, you know, I'm holding
[01:18:40.760 --> 01:18:46.400]  XRP and it goes from fifty nine cents to ten thousand dollars.
[01:18:46.400 --> 01:18:50.200]  Well, it's you know, I mean, it's kind of like fine art or something.
[01:18:50.200 --> 01:18:55.200]  What what, you know, if they want to tax that event,
[01:18:55.200 --> 01:18:59.320]  I don't think it's a taxable event until I convert that into a the currency.
[01:18:59.320 --> 01:19:01.160]  We're talking about the US dollar.
[01:19:01.160 --> 01:19:04.120]  If I don't do that, it's not a taxable event.
[01:19:04.120 --> 01:19:07.680]  I wouldn't think, although, you know, I think that's what they're sussing out
[01:19:07.680 --> 01:19:10.720]  in Supreme Court at the moment with the very legislation you're talking about.
[01:19:10.720 --> 01:19:11.240]  Am I right?
[01:19:12.440 --> 01:19:17.120]  Well, I don't know if you if you would have to convert it into a government currency.
[01:19:17.680 --> 01:19:20.480]  I think, for instance, let's say you had an account.
[01:19:20.480 --> 01:19:22.640]  Let's say you had a Bitcoin account.
[01:19:22.640 --> 01:19:24.280]  I don't know if account is the right word.
[01:19:24.280 --> 01:19:29.160]  I know that each of those has its own terminology for where your bitcoins are.
[01:19:29.160 --> 01:19:32.200]  OK, you're right. But great, great, great point.
[01:19:32.320 --> 01:19:34.480]  Great, great example. Please go ahead.
[01:19:35.160 --> 01:19:38.200]  Yeah. But so let's say as your point,
[01:19:38.200 --> 01:19:40.920]  you originally bought the Bitcoin at fifty nine cents each.
[01:19:41.160 --> 01:19:43.720]  And now they're worth a thousand dollars each.
[01:19:44.040 --> 01:19:47.160]  So you decide you're going to take
[01:19:48.040 --> 01:19:50.480]  two hundred dollars of each Bitcoin.
[01:19:51.440 --> 01:19:56.480]  You're going to take some of that profit and put it somewhere else. OK.
[01:19:57.480 --> 01:20:00.760]  If you were a person upon whom the taxes have been imposed, which you're not.
[01:20:01.400 --> 01:20:03.600]  If you were such a person,
[01:20:03.600 --> 01:20:07.360]  then you would either have to pay the tax because you separated
[01:20:07.360 --> 01:20:12.160]  the gain from the capital or you would have to reinvest it
[01:20:12.160 --> 01:20:16.640]  in such a period of time that it was not considered income to you.
[01:20:20.480 --> 01:20:24.120]  So you can take it out of the environment and put it in some other digital currency.
[01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:28.520]  But let's just say I decided kind of like El Salvador.
[01:20:28.920 --> 01:20:33.280]  Let's just say it is Bitcoin and I'd like to remain in Bitcoin
[01:20:33.280 --> 01:20:37.320]  and never convert it to the dollar. Right.
[01:20:37.320 --> 01:20:41.080]  So I'm going to all my commerce is going to occur
[01:20:41.480 --> 01:20:46.800]  in this digital asset that's well outside of this taxable event.
[01:20:46.840 --> 01:20:49.600]  You know, I mean, I think that's kind of where the push me, pull you
[01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:53.640]  is happening here and where a lot of the resistance is to digital assets.
[01:20:54.760 --> 01:20:58.760]  You know, by the way, El Salvador, they recently, you know, their entire
[01:20:59.280 --> 01:21:02.160]  country's net worth went up by roughly 40 percent,
[01:21:02.160 --> 01:21:05.440]  which happened to be the gain in Bitcoin recently.
[01:21:05.440 --> 01:21:10.480]  So I mean, it speaks a lot to sound money over, you know,
[01:21:10.480 --> 01:21:14.360]  this this moronic exercise behind this dollar.
[01:21:15.360 --> 01:21:19.560]  The way that would work is if a person is someone upon whom Congress
[01:21:19.560 --> 01:21:22.840]  has imposed the tax. OK, so they're like a nonresident alien
[01:21:23.240 --> 01:21:25.680]  with a US based Bitcoin account.
[01:21:26.120 --> 01:21:31.960]  And so they're the value of their investment keeps rising.
[01:21:32.320 --> 01:21:34.200]  And that's one of the things about digital currency.
[01:21:34.200 --> 01:21:36.680]  It's not so much a currency as it is an investment vehicle
[01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:39.560]  that you can use as a currency. OK.
[01:21:40.080 --> 01:21:44.360]  So let's say the person upon whom the tax has been imposed
[01:21:44.680 --> 01:21:50.680]  starts using the Bitcoin account to pay for the porn he's watching.
[01:21:52.680 --> 01:21:55.880]  The government then would say.
[01:21:55.880 --> 01:21:59.240]  All this money you spent on porn, you owe us taxes on that.
[01:22:00.160 --> 01:22:01.960]  You didn't reinvest it.
[01:22:01.960 --> 01:22:04.240]  It wasn't for business, it was for pleasure.
[01:22:05.840 --> 01:22:08.680]  It was free for you personally, for your interests.
[01:22:09.800 --> 01:22:14.320]  And therefore, everything that you spent, you now owe us taxes on.
[01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:19.360]  But again, that's only if it's a nonresident alien form corporation
[01:22:19.600 --> 01:22:25.600]  and the Bitcoin profit was generated as a US enterprise, US source.
[01:22:27.920 --> 01:22:32.200]  And this gets me back to, I think, what gets us on track for kind of
[01:22:32.920 --> 01:22:36.680]  kind of the whole gist of the book, you know, brass tacks.
[01:22:36.680 --> 01:22:38.000]  I mean, I think it's.
[01:22:40.000 --> 01:22:43.920]  Dispel the myth that we are libel,
[01:22:43.920 --> 01:22:46.800]  that we that we owe federal income tax.
[01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:50.920]  I mean, if you could sum that up, because I think that's really
[01:22:50.920 --> 01:22:56.000]  the crux of the value of this conversation and your book.
[01:22:56.000 --> 01:22:59.360]  And I know it's a lengthy book, but if you could if you could
[01:22:59.360 --> 01:23:01.800]  approach that topic a bit, I think. Sure.
[01:23:02.400 --> 01:23:04.800]  So we have laws against murder, right?
[01:23:04.840 --> 01:23:09.080]  So the best way, the best way to not get prosecuted
[01:23:09.080 --> 01:23:11.040]  for committing murder is not to commit a murder.
[01:23:12.640 --> 01:23:14.040]  Correct. Makes sense.
[01:23:14.040 --> 01:23:17.320]  Pretty clean, pretty sterile, no arguments, right?
[01:23:17.320 --> 01:23:20.600]  Which a lot of people in government actually do.
[01:23:20.600 --> 01:23:23.880]  So that's yet another reason that I don't want to pay.
[01:23:24.280 --> 01:23:26.480]  I don't really don't want to support pedophiles.
[01:23:27.760 --> 01:23:31.400]  So that's part of why I don't want to be in that system myself.
[01:23:31.680 --> 01:23:34.560]  I mean, often the reason I don't commit murder is because
[01:23:34.800 --> 01:23:36.560]  you know, there's laws.
[01:23:36.560 --> 01:23:40.040]  Yet the people that run this system are the ones that are.
[01:23:40.560 --> 01:23:43.800]  Anyway, just to let our audience like we know what we have
[01:23:44.280 --> 01:23:46.000]  an understanding of what's going on.
[01:23:46.000 --> 01:23:48.280]  So we like to speak to our audience,
[01:23:49.000 --> 01:23:51.440]  realizing the amount of
[01:23:53.520 --> 01:23:56.880]  nefarious activities that the people who are imposing these laws
[01:23:57.000 --> 01:23:58.720]  are actually committing themselves.
[01:23:58.720 --> 01:23:59.680]  So please go ahead.
[01:23:59.680 --> 01:24:00.560]  It's run by criminals.
[01:24:00.560 --> 01:24:02.680]  Yeah, the world is run by criminals. So go ahead.
[01:24:03.640 --> 01:24:07.840]  OK, so a prosecutor and the defense attorney
[01:24:07.960 --> 01:24:12.280]  for a person who is accused of committing a murder would have to match.
[01:24:12.280 --> 01:24:17.440]  And this is this goes to to all law would have to match the facts of the case
[01:24:18.320 --> 01:24:19.520]  to the law.
[01:24:19.520 --> 01:24:22.360]  They would have to overlap to make a case. Does that make sense?
[01:24:23.600 --> 01:24:28.120]  It does. The law says the law says if you do these things, you're in violation.
[01:24:28.480 --> 01:24:32.240]  OK, so based on the facts, do those violations occur?
[01:24:32.280 --> 01:24:36.800]  Right. The same exact thing occurs in income tax.
[01:24:37.680 --> 01:24:41.360]  Congress has imposed the income tax on non-resident aliens
[01:24:41.360 --> 01:24:45.800]  with U.S. source income, foreign corporations with U.S. source income
[01:24:46.520 --> 01:24:50.640]  and U.S. citizens residing abroad earning foreign income.
[01:24:52.320 --> 01:24:55.000]  There's no fourth class.
[01:24:55.000 --> 01:24:59.480]  Those three are the only people upon whom the income tax
[01:24:59.480 --> 01:25:01.240]  has been imposed by Congress.
[01:25:01.240 --> 01:25:05.560]  So the way to safely walk away
[01:25:06.560 --> 01:25:09.280]  is to make sure we talked about the evidentiary record
[01:25:09.280 --> 01:25:12.640]  we mentioned in brief a little bit earlier today to make sure
[01:25:13.160 --> 01:25:16.080]  that if challenge, you can go into the administrative form
[01:25:16.080 --> 01:25:19.080]  or hire somebody who's hell on wheels with the administrative procedure.
[01:25:19.360 --> 01:25:22.200]  You can go into the administrative forum and say,
[01:25:22.800 --> 01:25:27.200]  you seem to be under the presumption that I'm a non-resident alien
[01:25:27.200 --> 01:25:31.640]  with U.S. source income, or perhaps you think I'm a withholding agent
[01:25:32.440 --> 01:25:35.120]  on a non-resident alien with U.S. source income,
[01:25:35.120 --> 01:25:38.920]  and I should have paid over his taxes to you using a 1040.
[01:25:39.280 --> 01:25:42.760]  This seems to be one of these seems to be the impression you're under.
[01:25:43.200 --> 01:25:48.040]  So let's compare what Congress has said with the facts of my situation.
[01:25:50.160 --> 01:25:53.560]  So you end up then going on the record.
[01:25:54.320 --> 01:25:56.120]  Remember, the burden of proof is on the government.
[01:25:56.120 --> 01:26:00.800]  Now, it's great because there's a longstanding principle
[01:26:00.800 --> 01:26:03.720]  that the burden is upon the taxpayer, burden of proof is upon the taxpayer.
[01:26:04.760 --> 01:26:07.720]  But that presumes it's a taxpayer.
[01:26:08.320 --> 01:26:10.440]  The burden of proof is not upon me.
[01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:12.400]  I'm not a taxpayer.
[01:26:12.400 --> 01:26:15.600]  OK, so I love it.
[01:26:16.600 --> 01:26:19.480]  Yeah. So what you have to do is you have to go in.
[01:26:19.480 --> 01:26:21.680]  And it's called evidencing the administrative record.
[01:26:22.680 --> 01:26:26.080]  So that the government has nowhere to go
[01:26:26.720 --> 01:26:30.080]  because they can't show that you're a non-resident alien with U.S. source income.
[01:26:30.840 --> 01:26:34.440]  They can't show that you're a U.S. citizen residing abroad with foreign earned income.
[01:26:34.880 --> 01:26:37.520]  And they can't show that you were a withholding agent
[01:26:37.760 --> 01:26:39.960]  on U.S. source income that belongs to a foreign person.
[01:26:41.200 --> 01:26:45.200]  If they cannot show administratively, on the record, factually
[01:26:45.840 --> 01:26:50.160]  that you meet any of those criteria, they cannot proceed against you.
[01:26:50.440 --> 01:26:54.720]  Now, the Supreme Court back, I think it was in the 70s,
[01:26:55.560 --> 01:27:00.480]  said that Congress created the definition of taxpayer.
[01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:07.880]  And that people who work for the Treasury Department, who work for the IRS,
[01:27:08.800 --> 01:27:11.400]  can't change the definition that Congress created.
[01:27:13.200 --> 01:27:15.800]  So if Congress, by its laws,
[01:27:16.800 --> 01:27:19.440]  said the income tax is only opposed on the three classes,
[01:27:19.440 --> 01:27:21.120]  I won't repeat them, but the three classes of people,
[01:27:22.360 --> 01:27:28.600]  then employees for the IRS can literally be sued under tax law.
[01:27:29.560 --> 01:27:34.520]  They can be sued personally for damages if they exceed the constitutional scope of the income tax.
[01:27:36.680 --> 01:27:38.520]  And that's, of course, part of that.
[01:27:38.520 --> 01:27:41.680]  When these people who are so talented in the administrative forum,
[01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:44.400]  when they lay out all this evidence for the government,
[01:27:45.640 --> 01:27:49.120]  they also make the whoever the agent is, who's receiving the paperwork,
[01:27:49.480 --> 01:27:53.280]  they also make sure that they're aware that there is a statute that allows them to be sued
[01:27:53.280 --> 01:27:57.640]  in their personal capacity for violating the constitutional boundaries of the tax.
[01:28:00.280 --> 01:28:03.640]  Once they've been shown, let me be clear about that, once they've been shown the facts.
[01:28:08.480 --> 01:28:12.360]  So, all right, so we're talking about the individual.
[01:28:12.360 --> 01:28:13.240]  This makes a lot of sense.
[01:28:13.240 --> 01:28:17.000]  So let's say someone is a small business owner or a business owner
[01:28:17.920 --> 01:28:20.000]  and they filed letters of incorporation.
[01:28:20.000 --> 01:28:23.920]  Does this change their liability status?
[01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:28.920]  No, no, it doesn't matter whether it doesn't matter because, again,
[01:28:28.920 --> 01:28:31.400]  the three classes, non-resident aliens with U.S.
[01:28:31.400 --> 01:28:34.440]  source income, foreign corporations with U.S.
[01:28:34.440 --> 01:28:39.120]  source income and U.S. citizens residing abroad with foreign earned income.
[01:28:39.720 --> 01:28:43.320]  So if somebody goes out as an example and creates an LLC, right?
[01:28:44.680 --> 01:28:46.840]  They still don't fit into any of those categories.
[01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:52.120]  They still are not within any of the three classes upon whom Congress has imposed a tax.
[01:28:52.440 --> 01:28:57.400]  So that LLC at the end of the year, this is what I mentioned ever so briefly earlier,
[01:28:57.800 --> 01:29:03.640]  that LLC at the end of the year, if was really liable, they would file an 1120, right?
[01:29:04.440 --> 01:29:05.640]  A business return.
[01:29:06.920 --> 01:29:09.160]  But they're not liable. That business is not liable.
[01:29:10.280 --> 01:29:11.640]  It doesn't matter whether it's corporation.
[01:29:11.640 --> 01:29:13.320]  So what would the strategy be for?
[01:29:13.320 --> 01:29:15.400]  Let's talk about a fledgling small business.
[01:29:15.400 --> 01:29:19.640]  So many of them are wrecked in the COVID era and people are trying to rebuild.
[01:29:19.640 --> 01:29:21.560]  I think this speaks to a lot of folks out there.
[01:29:22.040 --> 01:29:23.400]  What is the strategy?
[01:29:23.400 --> 01:29:28.760]  Because there's this huge fear of running afoul of the IRS.
[01:29:28.760 --> 01:29:38.280]  I mean, one of the largest ammunition purchases by the federal government was on behalf of the IRS.
[01:29:39.880 --> 01:29:40.360]  Weapons.
[01:29:40.360 --> 01:29:40.920]  IRS.
[01:29:42.200 --> 01:29:43.880]  You know, weapons and ammunition.
[01:29:43.880 --> 01:29:46.280]  I mean, that's kind of a terrifying prospect.
[01:29:47.960 --> 01:29:52.680]  I only say that because it emphasizes the point that people don't want to run afoul of the guys
[01:29:52.680 --> 01:29:55.400]  with guns, the threat of force.
[01:29:56.200 --> 01:29:58.600]  So what do we do?
[01:29:59.640 --> 01:30:03.480]  Let me just talk about criminal prosecution for a moment because that, of course,
[01:30:03.480 --> 01:30:05.880]  is something that people are legitimately afraid of.
[01:30:06.840 --> 01:30:17.320]  About eight or nine years ago, the IRS stopped reporting how many tax cases were prosecuted.
[01:30:18.680 --> 01:30:22.920]  The final year of their reporting in a nation of 330 million people,
[01:30:22.920 --> 01:30:26.920]  approximately, at that time, they prosecuted 329 people.
[01:30:28.440 --> 01:30:33.960]  So the first thing we should say is the odds of being criminally prosecuted.
[01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:40.520]  That number, every expert who has looked at it has said that number has continued to fall.
[01:30:40.520 --> 01:30:46.280]  So as the population has gone up, the hard numbers of how many cases are prosecuted has
[01:30:46.280 --> 01:30:49.080]  fallen. It's probably somewhere down in the 200 range now.
[01:30:49.880 --> 01:30:58.680]  So in a nation of 334 million people, 200 being prosecuted, your odds are better at winning
[01:30:58.680 --> 01:31:02.120]  50 lotteries tomorrow than getting prosecuted by the IRS.
[01:31:02.440 --> 01:31:05.480]  I think that's an important thing for people to understand.
[01:31:06.920 --> 01:31:11.960]  But secondly, and I hinted at this a little bit earlier, you create that evidentiary record.
[01:31:12.600 --> 01:31:16.920]  We talked about, Joe, with you, what would have happened had you said to the person
[01:31:16.920 --> 01:31:20.600]  who wanted you to sign the W-9, I'm not a person who's required.
[01:31:20.600 --> 01:31:24.360]  You had that conversation, maybe she would work with you, maybe she wouldn't,
[01:31:24.360 --> 01:31:26.840]  maybe she'd agree to see additional information.
[01:31:26.840 --> 01:31:28.520]  All of this would be memorialized.
[01:31:28.520 --> 01:31:31.000]  You have a phone call with her, you type an email,
[01:31:31.080 --> 01:31:34.920]  hi, you said this, I said this, you said this, I said this.
[01:31:34.920 --> 01:31:37.560]  If I misstated your position, please let me know immediately.
[01:31:37.560 --> 01:31:39.640]  All of this goes into an evidentiary file.
[01:31:40.280 --> 01:31:45.160]  So what you're doing is you're showing, I attempted to comply with the law.
[01:31:45.960 --> 01:31:47.720]  There's no question what the law says, it's very clear.
[01:31:48.440 --> 01:31:49.800]  I attempted to comply with the law.
[01:31:50.840 --> 01:31:55.560]  This dipshit, whether it was from ego or fear or ignorance, whatever,
[01:31:56.440 --> 01:32:01.480]  this dipshit refused to be obedient to the law.
[01:32:02.840 --> 01:32:06.120]  So you create this evidentiary record and essentially,
[01:32:06.120 --> 01:32:09.400]  remember I said what would happen if the IRS contacted you five years from now?
[01:32:10.440 --> 01:32:14.280]  Essentially what happens is this evidentiary record gets turned into
[01:32:14.280 --> 01:32:17.880]  an administrative filing with the IRS.
[01:32:19.320 --> 01:32:24.760]  And basically the ultimate message is I've obeyed the law, these dipshits didn't.
[01:32:24.760 --> 01:32:28.600]  If you have a problem with somebody violating the law, go talk to her.
[01:32:28.600 --> 01:32:30.760]  She's the one that violated the law.
[01:32:30.760 --> 01:32:33.880]  I am 100% in compliance with the law.
[01:32:33.880 --> 01:32:38.680]  And here's all the evidence that I have accumulated each year, throughout each year,
[01:32:39.640 --> 01:32:42.600]  that I have attempted to communicate the law to these people.
[01:32:42.600 --> 01:32:46.360]  These people have been disobedient to the Secretary of the Treasury.
[01:32:46.920 --> 01:32:49.640]  So you need to go correct them, not me.
[01:32:50.440 --> 01:32:58.680]  Okay, that strategy is how that $5 million assessment disappeared.
[01:33:02.360 --> 01:33:03.480]  You're such a treasure, Dave.
[01:33:03.480 --> 01:33:06.280]  I swear you've got to come back on the show on a regular basis.
[01:33:06.280 --> 01:33:07.960]  I'm loving that.
[01:33:09.640 --> 01:33:13.000]  I spent so much time being pissed off about these things,
[01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:17.480]  and I'm really, really pleased to hear someone speaking the truth.
[01:33:19.640 --> 01:33:20.280]  It's amazing.
[01:33:20.280 --> 01:33:22.440]  And then we've got, you know, here's the flip side.
[01:33:23.160 --> 01:33:28.760]  Here's the people arguing for greater taxation are the maraudes people.
[01:33:28.760 --> 01:33:30.440]  Like, well, what about maraudes?
[01:33:30.440 --> 01:33:32.040]  Who's going to pay for the roads?
[01:33:34.360 --> 01:33:36.440]  Do you have a response to that?
[01:33:36.440 --> 01:33:39.240]  Because I know it's a ridiculous thing, but yeah.
[01:33:39.240 --> 01:33:47.960]  Well, and real quick, Dave, someone had asked can you lawfully opt out of the death tax?
[01:33:47.960 --> 01:33:51.320]  Is that something that you can also talk about?
[01:33:51.320 --> 01:33:52.120]  Or how does that?
[01:33:52.120 --> 01:33:53.000]  After maraudes.
[01:33:53.000 --> 01:33:54.040]  Okay, after maraudes.
[01:33:54.040 --> 01:33:56.280]  Yeah, we got to talk to the maraudes people.
[01:33:56.280 --> 01:33:58.040]  The more roads, maraudes.
[01:33:58.040 --> 01:33:58.680]  Maraudes.
[01:34:01.320 --> 01:34:04.360]  So the things that people have said to me over the years,
[01:34:04.360 --> 01:34:06.040]  well, people didn't pay their income tax.
[01:34:06.040 --> 01:34:07.400]  These things wouldn't get done.
[01:34:08.200 --> 01:34:10.520]  Virtually all of them are state and county taxes.
[01:34:10.520 --> 01:34:12.520]  They have nothing to do with the federal government.
[01:34:12.520 --> 01:34:15.400]  Also, the Grace Commission, when Ronald Reagan was president,
[01:34:15.400 --> 01:34:19.080]  he impaneled something called the Grace, well, it wasn't called the Grace Commission.
[01:34:19.080 --> 01:34:21.320]  It's got a very long, lengthy committee name.
[01:34:22.280 --> 01:34:25.880]  But because the chairman of WR Grace at that time was the chairman of the committee,
[01:34:25.880 --> 01:34:29.080]  it got dubbed the Grace Commission.
[01:34:29.720 --> 01:34:33.080]  And Ronald Reagan posed 10 questions to the Grace Commission.
[01:34:33.880 --> 01:34:40.360]  One of those questions was what happens to the income tax the average American pays?
[01:34:41.320 --> 01:34:45.320]  And the Grace Commission reported back to Ronald Reagan in their final report
[01:34:45.880 --> 01:34:55.080]  and said 100% of the income tax goes to pay the interest on the national debt
[01:34:55.080 --> 01:35:01.400]  and not one penny pays for any services or infrastructure
[01:35:01.400 --> 01:35:05.080]  that the citizen imagines it pays for when they pay their income tax.
[01:35:06.040 --> 01:35:06.760]  Okay.
[01:35:06.760 --> 01:35:07.640]  Exactly.
[01:35:07.880 --> 01:35:09.400]  Oh, yes.
[01:35:16.200 --> 01:35:20.840]  It's great that I got to share the story because it goes back and verifies,
[01:35:21.480 --> 01:35:24.920]  Ronald Reagan, I know the Grace Commission report was 87, something like that.
[01:35:24.920 --> 01:35:29.000]  So the Grace Commission report verifies what I shared with you earlier,
[01:35:29.000 --> 01:35:33.800]  that the income tax and the Federal Reserve Act were passed in the same year by the same Congress
[01:35:33.800 --> 01:35:39.400]  because the purpose of the income tax is to pay the interest on the loans the government takes out.
[01:35:39.400 --> 01:35:42.440]  And the Grace Commission told Ronald Reagan exactly that.
[01:35:46.120 --> 01:35:49.880]  And why are we continuing to tolerate this arrangement with the Federal Reserve?
[01:35:49.880 --> 01:35:55.240]  I mean, it is well within our rights as a sovereign state to coin our own money.
[01:35:57.240 --> 01:36:01.720]  I think it's about 75% of the national debt really is interest owed.
[01:36:01.720 --> 01:36:08.520]  I mean, we're all slave to this and it's clearly a scheme.
[01:36:08.520 --> 01:36:13.320]  I mean, there was no logical reason for this arrangement,
[01:36:14.600 --> 01:36:16.440]  but we've never seized our sovereignty.
[01:36:16.440 --> 01:36:18.360]  There absolutely was a logical reason.
[01:36:19.560 --> 01:36:20.440]  There was.
[01:36:20.440 --> 01:36:21.880]  And the logical reason was, number one...
[01:36:21.880 --> 01:36:23.480]  But it had to do with corruption.
[01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:26.120]  Number one, to make bankers wealthy.
[01:36:26.840 --> 01:36:30.520]  But number two, are you familiar with Keynesian economics?
[01:36:31.880 --> 01:36:32.760]  Oh, yes.
[01:36:32.760 --> 01:36:33.560]  Yeah.
[01:36:33.560 --> 01:36:33.960]  Okay.
[01:36:33.960 --> 01:36:36.520]  Well, Keynes is the one that when people said,
[01:36:36.520 --> 01:36:38.200]  what happens when it comes to an end?
[01:36:38.200 --> 01:36:41.000]  And he's like, well, everything comes to an end.
[01:36:41.000 --> 01:36:41.800]  Like you had no...
[01:36:41.800 --> 01:36:43.640]  Your real answer.
[01:36:43.640 --> 01:36:50.120]  Obviously, this thing was going to come to a bitter end and there was no solution offered whatsoever.
[01:36:50.920 --> 01:36:52.680]  And we're there right now, today.
[01:36:53.720 --> 01:36:54.360]  We're at the end.
[01:36:54.360 --> 01:37:00.280]  So back in 1913, the pitch, if you will, for the Federal Reserve,
[01:37:00.280 --> 01:37:04.280]  I don't know if you remember, they voted for it late on a Sunday night going into Christmas
[01:37:04.280 --> 01:37:07.720]  when most of the congressmen and senators had already left for the holidays,
[01:37:08.680 --> 01:37:10.120]  because of course, we didn't have jets back then.
[01:37:10.120 --> 01:37:12.520]  Scott was around then, but I wasn't.
[01:37:12.520 --> 01:37:13.000]  Yeah.
[01:37:13.000 --> 01:37:14.040]  Scott was there.
[01:37:14.040 --> 01:37:14.920]  I was not.
[01:37:14.920 --> 01:37:16.120]  But anyway, go ahead.
[01:37:16.120 --> 01:37:16.620]  Okay.
[01:37:17.320 --> 01:37:23.480]  So the pitch was, if we have the Federal Reserve, a fiat currency,
[01:37:23.480 --> 01:37:27.480]  and the income tax to pay the interest on the loans that the banks are making to the Treasury
[01:37:27.480 --> 01:37:37.240]  Department, then we can dominate the world stage because we're creating money out of thin air.
[01:37:37.960 --> 01:37:38.200]  Okay.
[01:37:39.800 --> 01:37:41.560]  And we can dominate.
[01:37:41.560 --> 01:37:47.080]  And of course, that ended up after World War II, the Bretton Woods Conference and that agreement,
[01:37:47.080 --> 01:37:51.800]  and then the World Bank and the dominance of the US dollar being the petrodollar and the
[01:37:51.800 --> 01:37:53.320]  world's reserve currency.
[01:37:53.320 --> 01:38:01.160]  All of this stems from the original vision of what could be accomplished if the government
[01:38:01.160 --> 01:38:08.680]  could institute a Federal Reserve type system with a fiat currency and an income tax.
[01:38:08.680 --> 01:38:16.360]  This was all a plan to achieve something which probably seemed pretty appealing to
[01:38:16.360 --> 01:38:18.680]  the government officials at that time.
[01:38:19.320 --> 01:38:25.000]  But as you say, what's the end game?
[01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:29.640]  What happens, like we talked about, what if the American citizens, all of them suddenly
[01:38:29.640 --> 01:38:33.320]  pull their heads out of their ass, red income tax shattering the mist, and stop filing?
[01:38:33.320 --> 01:38:35.080]  Again, not civil disobedience.
[01:38:35.080 --> 01:38:37.640]  Just, I know it doesn't apply to me, so I'm done.
[01:38:37.640 --> 01:38:42.120]  What if 100 million Americans who formally file 1040 stop doing that?
[01:38:42.120 --> 01:38:46.920]  We'd now have to talk about, so what happens when that great idea that you had in 1913,
[01:38:46.920 --> 01:38:49.160]  what happens when that great idea comes to an end today?
[01:38:51.720 --> 01:38:54.840]  Fractional reserve lending, I think, had an awful lot to do with this.
[01:38:54.840 --> 01:39:01.960]  You know, banks are creating 10, 9 times what started out as 9 times the amount on deposit.
[01:39:01.960 --> 01:39:04.840]  Now, I don't think it's a nosehold bar game.
[01:39:04.840 --> 01:39:06.840]  It's just creating money out of thin air.
[01:39:06.840 --> 01:39:10.040]  And the petrodollar, which has clearly come to an end.
[01:39:11.400 --> 01:39:15.560]  When all these dollars come home to roost, what is that going to do to our monetary supply?
[01:39:15.560 --> 01:39:18.600]  I think that's why we're playing the Ukraine game,
[01:39:18.600 --> 01:39:22.280]  is because everybody that knows anything about this knows that we're at the end.
[01:39:23.560 --> 01:39:26.120]  We're at teens, no answer.
[01:39:26.120 --> 01:39:28.120]  About eight years ago, the United States government
[01:39:28.120 --> 01:39:30.680]  stopped publishing the volume of money report.
[01:39:30.680 --> 01:39:32.360]  So it stopped telling the American people,
[01:39:32.360 --> 01:39:34.280]  stop being transparent about how much money
[01:39:34.280 --> 01:39:36.200]  that was being printed and sent around the world.
[01:39:39.160 --> 01:39:41.800]  And there's a reason that the government stopped doing that.
[01:39:41.800 --> 01:39:49.560]  And the reason is that the federal government wanted to pour dollars into the Swiss bank
[01:39:49.560 --> 01:39:52.840]  accounts of every violent, disgusting potentate on the planet.
[01:39:53.560 --> 01:39:58.840]  The reason is, if some guy who's in charge of some country someplace,
[01:39:58.840 --> 01:40:01.880]  some vile piece of shit guy, but he's in charge, right?
[01:40:02.600 --> 01:40:06.520]  But the US government, through its financial aid programs,
[01:40:07.400 --> 01:40:10.360]  he ends up with $200 million in a Swiss bank account.
[01:40:10.440 --> 01:40:15.960]  He's not going to want to take the dollar, because he's got the dollar.
[01:40:17.320 --> 01:40:23.480]  So basically, the intent has been and continues to be to conscript everyone
[01:40:24.280 --> 01:40:29.000]  into supporting the dollar, because people are holding so many dollars,
[01:40:29.000 --> 01:40:33.880]  they can't afford to work against the dollar, which is pretty much what's crippled Brexit.
[01:40:35.800 --> 01:40:39.480]  Nobody wants to cooperate with Brexit, because they're all holding dollars.
[01:40:40.360 --> 01:40:46.120]  Because the United States has spent the last 12 years or so handing out billions and billions
[01:40:46.120 --> 01:40:51.400]  and billions of dollars to everyone around the world, and they think they're rich on dollars.
[01:40:51.400 --> 01:40:55.480]  So they won't cooperate in undermining the dollars, the world's reserve currency,
[01:40:56.120 --> 01:40:57.720]  because they'd be undermining themselves.
[01:41:01.640 --> 01:41:05.400]  Bingo. So it's this illusion, this agreed upon lie,
[01:41:06.120 --> 01:41:11.320]  that everyone's hoping doesn't get disrupted, because, boy, imagine the effect if it was.
[01:41:16.600 --> 01:41:17.640]  We are at the end.
[01:41:18.840 --> 01:41:24.040]  Perhaps. I say perhaps, because I'm 64 years old, and I've been hearing,
[01:41:25.080 --> 01:41:27.400]  this is unsustainable since I was probably 12.
[01:41:29.480 --> 01:41:32.760]  Because I had a lot of political adults around me when I was young,
[01:41:33.400 --> 01:41:36.920]  and I've been hearing the narrative that this is unsustainable since I was 12.
[01:41:39.320 --> 01:41:40.280]  It's always been true.
[01:41:42.600 --> 01:41:46.040]  I suppose in theory, but the chicken has never come home to roost,
[01:41:47.240 --> 01:41:53.960]  in my lifetime so far. Will the chicken come home to roost? Presumably, yes. When?
[01:41:55.640 --> 01:41:59.400]  I don't know. It's like people, I don't know if you're aware of this,
[01:41:59.880 --> 01:42:08.520]  Christian leaders have been saying since about 100 A.D. Now is the time Jesus Christ is returning
[01:42:08.520 --> 01:42:16.680]  to earth, and every generation for 2,000 years, every generation of Christian leaders has said,
[01:42:16.680 --> 01:42:23.400]  now is the time Jesus is returning. So 2,000 years later, he still hasn't returned. So I use
[01:42:23.400 --> 01:42:28.200]  that as a parallel to when is the chicken going to come home to roost in this particular federal
[01:42:29.160 --> 01:42:33.160]  reserve fiat currency arrangement? I don't know.
[01:42:34.920 --> 01:42:45.000]  People have been telling me since I was 12. Oh, next year, I'm 64, and I'm hearing the same
[01:42:45.000 --> 01:42:50.440]  rhetoric. Isn't it propped up by the threat of force though? I mean, look at what happened
[01:42:50.440 --> 01:42:57.960]  to Libya when Gaddafi talked about gold backing his currency. What happened to Saddam Hussein
[01:42:57.960 --> 01:43:03.320]  when he talked about trading oil in the euro? Look at everyone else that we've gone to war with.
[01:43:03.320 --> 01:43:08.840]  There's an economic component that threatens this very construct. So it really is the threat of
[01:43:08.840 --> 01:43:15.800]  force. And now, militarily, we're as weak as we have ever been, I think, historically speaking,
[01:43:15.800 --> 01:43:24.360]  by comparative analogy. I think that's a government narrative. I don't believe that's true.
[01:43:24.360 --> 01:43:31.000]  I don't think we are the weakest we've ever been. I think that's a narrative that's being put out
[01:43:32.040 --> 01:43:40.440]  to justify more defense spending. That could be. Well, that could be entirely true.
[01:43:41.080 --> 01:43:45.880]  That's a really creative one. I mean, they've been creative in the past, but that's really creative.
[01:43:45.880 --> 01:43:51.000]  You are right. You are 100% correct that it's backed up by force. If you try and
[01:43:51.000 --> 01:43:57.160]  upend the United States government's monetary dominance in the world, oh yeah, they'll kill you.
[01:43:57.160 --> 01:44:01.720]  No doubt about it. No doubt about it. And that's exactly, as you pointed out, that's exactly why
[01:44:01.720 --> 01:44:11.480]  they kept it up. Yeah, in Africa, I mean, it's the most resource-rich, largest continent in the world.
[01:44:11.480 --> 01:44:18.920]  And yet, I mean, where is the civilization on scale? Where are the big players? Where are the
[01:44:19.480 --> 01:44:25.880]  on scale? Where are the big cities? Where's the economic power? And it's because intelligence
[01:44:25.880 --> 01:44:30.280]  agencies, not just the United States, but everybody got together to pay off these warlords,
[01:44:30.280 --> 01:44:38.520]  to keep things at a status quo so that those resources could be exploited without any real
[01:44:38.520 --> 01:44:45.320]  opposition. I mean, these are pieces on the board, and I think these borders and countries and so on,
[01:44:46.280 --> 01:44:50.920]  I think we can kind of dispense with the illusion to a certain degree, at least as a thought exercise,
[01:44:50.920 --> 01:44:58.120]  and realize that this is a compendium of criminals that have really kind of brilliantly,
[01:44:58.120 --> 01:45:03.560]  you have to give it to them, devised a system where we're all willingly, this time of year,
[01:45:04.440 --> 01:45:10.360]  you know, I mean, it's much more painful for the guy that has to write the quarterly check
[01:45:10.360 --> 01:45:16.040]  or the semiannual check for his tax liability, but it's another thing for the, you know,
[01:45:16.040 --> 01:45:21.720]  the wage earner where it's already taken out of his check, each paycheck. Doesn't even really
[01:45:21.720 --> 01:45:25.080]  think about it. It's just sort of an automatic thing. And that's most folks.
[01:45:25.080 --> 01:45:29.400]  That needs to come to an end. That's the real thing. All those things you just described with
[01:45:29.400 --> 01:45:33.720]  the American citizens, that needs to come to an end because it's a complete scam.
[01:45:35.080 --> 01:45:35.560]  It is.
[01:45:36.520 --> 01:45:40.440]  Yeah. Oh, by the way, have you ever heard about, have you ever heard of Operation Ajax?
[01:45:42.520 --> 01:45:44.120]  Ajax? No, no.
[01:45:44.120 --> 01:45:49.080]  Okay. The reason I bring it up is it validates what you were just saying about Africa,
[01:45:49.080 --> 01:45:57.400]  although it wasn't Africa, it was Iran. So in 1953, Iran had a president, get this,
[01:45:57.400 --> 01:46:01.640]  a Muslim president who believed in secular government. Okay.
[01:46:02.600 --> 01:46:04.760]  And then again, secular what?
[01:46:05.640 --> 01:46:13.000]  Secular government. So he was personally a Muslim, but he believed government should be secular.
[01:46:13.000 --> 01:46:19.160]  Okay. This was before the clerics came in. So this would have been what, the 70s?
[01:46:19.160 --> 01:46:27.560]  No, no, this was like 1953 is when Operation Ajax kicked off. So he was like the perfect guy you
[01:46:27.560 --> 01:46:33.240]  would think that the West would want in charge of an oil rich land. But what he did is he said
[01:46:33.240 --> 01:46:40.840]  to British Petroleum, look, we've reviewed the accounts. You have owed us for years 15%
[01:46:41.800 --> 01:46:49.800]  of the value of every barrel that leaves Iran. Our accounting review shows that you've paid us
[01:46:49.800 --> 01:46:58.840]  $3, 3% a barrel, not 15% a barrel. So we want you to pay the balance that you owe us.
[01:47:00.440 --> 01:47:07.000]  So what happened is British Petroleum, and of course, especially back in the 20th century,
[01:47:07.800 --> 01:47:15.560]  British industry and the British intelligence community were as one. So BP went to MI6 and
[01:47:15.560 --> 01:47:21.960]  said, you've got to do something about this. So MI6 went to the CIA, and the CIA created Operation
[01:47:21.960 --> 01:47:27.960]  Ajax, which was an operation to remove Mosaddegh, that's the president, to remove Mosaddegh from
[01:47:27.960 --> 01:47:38.040]  office. Okay. And then they put the Shah in, who was this little, little tiny man. And I mean that
[01:47:38.040 --> 01:47:43.880]  mentally, like a very petty little man. And he had the Savak, which was this vicious secret police.
[01:47:43.880 --> 01:47:50.200]  And that led to the Islamic Revolution, which gives us the Iran that we have today. And it was
[01:47:50.200 --> 01:47:55.480]  all so that British Petroleum didn't have to pay the Iranian government what it owed them and had
[01:47:55.480 --> 01:48:02.760]  stolen from them. And if it required getting rid of a good, honest, secular president, we did it.
[01:48:04.680 --> 01:48:08.680]  Which directly led to the problems we have with Iran to this very day.
[01:48:08.680 --> 01:48:15.560]  So you're right, that validation is the same. It's always a manipulation of
[01:48:17.080 --> 01:48:23.080]  things as largely as show. Yeah, I mean, if sensible government were suddenly to land in Iran,
[01:48:23.080 --> 01:48:26.920]  I mean, think of the liability that would represent for the United States and the West.
[01:48:26.920 --> 01:48:32.200]  And I think, you know, and I don't know the dates on this, but I think what you're describing is
[01:48:32.200 --> 01:48:37.080]  the advent of the Five Eyes, right? When all the intelligence agencies decided they could
[01:48:37.720 --> 01:48:42.520]  share information in a way that circumvented an awful lot of privacy laws.
[01:48:42.520 --> 01:48:45.800]  I think Five Eyes came around in the 70s, if I remember correctly.
[01:48:46.840 --> 01:48:52.360]  Okay, okay. The late 70s, if I'm remembering correctly. But my point was that-
[01:48:52.360 --> 01:48:55.240]  Well, that was the fall of the Shah, right? That happened-
[01:48:57.080 --> 01:49:03.080]  No, no, no. No, Iran-Contra was in the 80s, so it would have been later. You're right.
[01:49:03.080 --> 01:49:13.800]  Yeah, yeah. And Five Eyes is really about worldwide spying. It's about those five nations
[01:49:13.800 --> 01:49:19.160]  sharing all the information, any piece of information that anyone is talking about
[01:49:19.160 --> 01:49:22.760]  anywhere in the world. And the way they do that is it's against the law for the United
[01:49:22.760 --> 01:49:28.360]  States to monitor our communications, right? But it's not against the law for the Australian
[01:49:28.360 --> 01:49:32.680]  government to do that, and the Australian government is one of the Five Eyes. So the
[01:49:32.680 --> 01:49:39.480]  Australian government can monitor US communications, turn that information over to the US government,
[01:49:39.480 --> 01:49:45.320]  and the US government didn't actually do it, so the US government didn't violate the Constitution.
[01:49:46.440 --> 01:49:52.280]  Five Eyes is a very slippery arrangement. It's the admission of the corporatization of the
[01:49:52.280 --> 01:50:02.520]  intelligence globally. Maybe this is a stretch, but I think it's a declaration that this is well
[01:50:02.520 --> 01:50:09.400]  beyond any border, that there's a larger ownership stake here. There's a larger
[01:50:10.520 --> 01:50:15.400]  mechanism governing the way the pieces move around the board, and we're still playing
[01:50:15.400 --> 01:50:23.240]  conveniently within the language of borders and sovereign states and entities, but I don't think
[01:50:23.240 --> 01:50:29.640]  that really exists in the mechanic of things financially or administratively when we talk
[01:50:29.640 --> 01:50:34.440]  about intelligence. Have you ever read the quotes of General Smedley Butler?
[01:50:37.000 --> 01:50:44.520]  I don't think I have. Oh my God. You guys, when we're done here, you have to Google Smedley Butler
[01:50:44.520 --> 01:50:50.280]  quotes. At the time, he was the highest ranking Marine Corps general in history,
[01:50:51.480 --> 01:50:57.240]  and after he retired, he came out and he was stumbling. He said, I've traveled all over the
[01:50:57.240 --> 01:51:02.040]  world killing people all over the world, and the only reason I ever killed anybody, the only reason
[01:51:02.040 --> 01:51:08.600]  I was ever given orders to kill anybody overseas was so that American corporations and their allies
[01:51:08.600 --> 01:51:21.400]  could make money. I just opened a browser window for that because I did not want to forget that.
[01:51:21.400 --> 01:51:29.000]  That sounds fantastic. After this, I want to bring something up for you. People have accused him of
[01:51:29.000 --> 01:51:33.800]  being a communist because he spoke at communist meetings, and when he was confronted by people
[01:51:33.800 --> 01:51:39.000]  saying, you went and spoke at communist meetings, he was like, yeah, I want everyone to understand
[01:51:39.000 --> 01:51:44.280]  what we're doing. His point was, I'll go talk to the Republicans, the Democrats, the Socialists,
[01:51:44.280 --> 01:51:49.160]  the Green Party, which didn't exist back then. I'll talk to anybody who has a meeting so I can
[01:51:49.160 --> 01:51:52.920]  tell them the truth about what the United States military is doing. We're going around the world
[01:51:52.920 --> 01:52:01.560]  killing people so the US corporations and their allies can make money. There's a video that came
[01:52:01.640 --> 01:52:06.760]  out. Things pop up on different social medias. I think a lot of viewers are familiar with the
[01:52:06.760 --> 01:52:12.440]  gentleman named Billy Carson. This came up in the last couple days that I've seen it,
[01:52:13.000 --> 01:52:17.960]  and it's only a minute long. I'm going to play the audio so both you guys can hear this. It's
[01:52:17.960 --> 01:52:25.240]  about mortgages and taxes. That being said, here we go. Hold on. I'm going to play this.
[01:52:26.200 --> 01:52:33.400]  190 million Americans. Imagine if out of that all of them don't have jobs, right? Let's just say
[01:52:33.400 --> 01:52:39.720]  90 million working Americans that are actually on the streets, free to move around. Let's just say
[01:52:39.720 --> 01:52:43.880]  out of 90 million, 40 million, say, you know what? We're not going to pay the mortgage payments and
[01:52:43.880 --> 01:52:48.920]  the taxes anymore. Matter of fact, we've been collaborating and we've saved up for a month or
[01:52:48.920 --> 01:52:52.680]  two. We don't need any gas or food for a month or two, so we're not even going to go shopping.
[01:52:52.680 --> 01:52:56.120]  We're not going to get on public transportation. We're not going to use our cars. We're done. We're
[01:52:56.120 --> 01:52:59.720]  going to take two months off. You know that thing you did to us with the global pandemic when you
[01:52:59.720 --> 01:53:03.480]  shut everything off? Well, we're going to shut everything off now, except we won't turn it back
[01:53:03.480 --> 01:53:08.920]  on until you negotiate a better deal with us because you work for us. We don't work for you.
[01:53:08.920 --> 01:53:14.200]  You are our servants. That's what the government is. You're servants, but you got it where they're
[01:53:14.200 --> 01:53:18.280]  telling you everything you can and can't do, and you're afraid of them. What if we turned off the
[01:53:18.280 --> 01:53:23.720]  planet collectively? You know what? We're done. Talk to us when you send a representative that
[01:53:23.720 --> 01:53:29.000]  we approve of, and we'll start the negotiation process. Was that Billy Carson? That's Billy
[01:53:29.000 --> 01:53:32.280]  Carson. Yeah, I like Billy Carson. What did you think of that? Could you hear that okay?
[01:53:32.920 --> 01:53:39.000]  Oh, yeah, perfectly. Oh, good, good. Otherwise, yeah, it wasn't Johnny Carson.
[01:53:39.880 --> 01:53:45.800]  No. So yeah, what do you think? I mean, this is the whole idea that, you know-
[01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:47.080]  If collectively-
[01:53:47.080 --> 01:53:52.360]  Well, this is why division is the number one weapon of every government is because solidarity
[01:53:52.360 --> 01:53:57.240]  is the antidote for government, and they know that, and they've always known that. Yeah.
[01:53:58.040 --> 01:54:06.360]  But still, trying to get people to act with any kind of solidarity is hurting cats. I mean,
[01:54:06.360 --> 01:54:12.760]  it's worse than that. It's so difficult. So my answer to Billy, well, I don't say answer
[01:54:12.760 --> 01:54:17.480]  to Billy, my response to Billy's attempt, which by the way, I think is a beautiful thing. Don't
[01:54:17.480 --> 01:54:25.720]  get me wrong. But right. From my point of view, living the life that I have lived and my experiences,
[01:54:26.280 --> 01:54:34.760]  I would say to him, really? Because I can't get millions of people to read one fucking book.
[01:54:39.560 --> 01:54:41.720]  That's the best response I could have hoped for.
[01:54:41.720 --> 01:54:44.360]  Yeah. You've done the work.
[01:54:44.360 --> 01:54:47.320]  We think they're really going to put their asses on the line and risk
[01:54:47.320 --> 01:54:51.960]  potential hardship and whatever. I mean, I hear what he's saying, that it's all pre-prepared.
[01:54:52.680 --> 01:54:56.360]  If you can't get someone to read a book, you're not going to get them to go through all those
[01:54:56.360 --> 01:55:01.800]  measures. But by the way, I agree with him. If this impossible thing was possible,
[01:55:01.800 --> 01:55:06.280]  it would be powerful. It's just Americans don't have the nuts to do it.
[01:55:07.240 --> 01:55:08.600]  Can you hand me the book?
[01:55:08.600 --> 01:55:09.400]  Yes.
[01:55:09.400 --> 01:55:14.600]  So, you know, I'm going to propose something. It's right. Yeah, there we go. I'm going to propose
[01:55:14.600 --> 01:55:20.360]  something. I know this doesn't look like the most exciting read, but I think, you know, having heard
[01:55:20.360 --> 01:55:25.160]  the author here for a while, you can understand it probably is the most exciting read. Joe and I have
[01:55:25.160 --> 01:55:30.520]  not yet had the opportunity to read it, but I've started, but there's a lot more to delve into.
[01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:37.800]  Right. But we're going to read it. And I'd like to invite the audience. Buy a copy, read it,
[01:55:38.840 --> 01:55:42.840]  and then we can all have this conversation together in a really, you know, like a book club
[01:55:42.840 --> 01:55:50.840]  kind of a way. Yeah. As many episodes as we need, because, you know, this is essential to our
[01:55:50.840 --> 01:55:58.920]  freedom. Yeah. Instead of fight club, we'll do a tax club. Book club. There we go. Yeah. But yeah,
[01:55:58.920 --> 01:56:03.720]  buy the book. And just if anyone's wondering right now, where can they get the book?
[01:56:04.600 --> 01:56:12.280]  Go to drreality.news. That's drreality.news. Just click on store. You'll see my various
[01:56:12.280 --> 01:56:15.160]  writings there that you can purchase, including Income Tax Shattering the Mist.
[01:56:16.920 --> 01:56:22.760]  Yeah. You know, we talked about this at the outset, but I'm really enthused to come back
[01:56:22.760 --> 01:56:26.360]  and talk to the two of you after you've completed Income Tax Shattering the Mist.
[01:56:26.360 --> 01:56:31.160]  And imagine if your audience had all read Income Tax Shattering the Mist.
[01:56:31.160 --> 01:56:36.360]  Now we're having a conversation where everybody is fully knowledgeable.
[01:56:37.480 --> 01:56:44.200]  It's a movement. When you see our subscribers go down to about 10,000, you'll know this movement's
[01:56:44.200 --> 01:56:48.040]  taken off.