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[00:00.000 --> 00:06.040]  On April 20th, 2024, I had the pleasure of being interviewed by Sherry B on her A Right
[00:06.040 --> 00:07.040]  to Know podcast.
[00:07.040 --> 00:10.600]  In the weeks leading up to the interview, Sherry read my book Income Tax Shattering
[00:10.600 --> 00:12.820]  the Miss cover to cover.
[00:12.820 --> 00:17.220]  This is a photo she sent me before the interview that shows all the parts of the book she flagged
[00:17.220 --> 00:19.360]  as being of special interest.
[00:19.360 --> 00:21.760]  The crazy thing is that's not unusual.
[00:21.760 --> 00:27.000]  Over the years, readers have sent me a ton of photos that look just like that.
[00:27.000 --> 00:31.160]  Sherry is on several social media platforms, so you can follow her on whichever is your
[00:31.160 --> 00:32.160]  favorite.
[00:32.160 --> 00:33.440]  I'll put links down in the notes.
[00:33.440 --> 00:38.360]  Because Sherry read every word of Income Tax Shattering the Miss and is an excellent host,
[00:38.360 --> 00:42.040]  this is an especially informative interview that I know you'll enjoy.
[00:42.040 --> 00:46.800]  There are also some unexpected surprises along the way, so I know you're going to love this.
[00:46.800 --> 00:50.120]  Without further ado, let's get into it.
[00:50.120 --> 00:52.080]  Welcome back to A Right to Know.
[00:52.080 --> 00:57.840]  I'm Sherry B. And as you know, on A Right to Know, we cover many topics that shatter
[00:57.840 --> 01:03.640]  what you thought was truth and those myths we've been tricked and indoctrinated into
[01:03.640 --> 01:04.640]  believing.
[01:04.640 --> 01:11.700]  Today, our guest will be shattering the myths on an adopted core belief that the grand majority
[01:11.700 --> 01:17.000]  of American citizens have literally bought into by design.
[01:17.000 --> 01:22.920]  Our guest today was born a true American champion and continues to live up to his name.
[01:22.920 --> 01:30.960]  Dr. Dave Champion, the author of Income Tax Shattering the Myths, is not called Dr. Reality
[01:30.960 --> 01:31.960]  for no reason.
[01:31.960 --> 01:38.080]  He'll be uncovering myths and covering truths today that will rock your world.
[01:38.080 --> 01:43.920]  And let me tell you, since I've read the book myself cover to cover, I know and understand
[01:43.920 --> 01:47.520]  that our world now needs to be rocked.
[01:47.520 --> 01:54.880]  Dr. Dave Champion is a physiologist with a doctoral degree in political philosophy.
[01:54.880 --> 01:58.560]  He has an extensive background in legal studies.
[01:58.560 --> 02:05.480]  He's a former Army Ranger with a law enforcement background and has served as legal consultant
[02:05.480 --> 02:11.080]  on state and federal regulatory matters, as well as constitutional law advisor.
[02:11.400 --> 02:17.040]  Dr. Dave is a public speaker, having lectured on numerous subjects, including the United
[02:17.040 --> 02:23.480]  States Constitution, the Second 14th and 16th Amendments, the history and proper limited
[02:23.480 --> 02:30.400]  application of the income tax, government relations and human physiology.
[02:30.400 --> 02:36.880]  He's a formal martial arts instructor and a renowned firearms tactics and use of force
[02:36.880 --> 02:38.280]  instructor.
[02:38.280 --> 02:44.680]  In the private sector, Dr. Dave is a businessman turned journalist, having hosted his own radio
[02:44.680 --> 02:48.840]  and TV shows from 2000 to 2018.
[02:48.840 --> 02:51.520]  He's also the author of Body Science.
[02:51.520 --> 02:57.920]  I would like to welcome to our right to know Dr. Dave Champion.
[02:57.920 --> 02:58.920]  Thank you, Sheri.
[02:58.920 --> 03:04.760]  It is a pleasure to be with you after we've talked so many times and we're here together.
[03:04.760 --> 03:06.280]  I know this is amazing.
[03:06.280 --> 03:10.240]  This is really, truly, truly one of the most important shows that we've done, Dr. Dave
[03:10.240 --> 03:12.000]  Champion.
[03:12.000 --> 03:14.160]  We got a lot to cover, but this is critical.
[03:14.160 --> 03:15.840]  This is a critical show.
[03:15.840 --> 03:20.280]  Watch it, take notes, share it with all your loved ones, and we'll give you some sources
[03:20.280 --> 03:25.480]  where you can even dive deeper into the subject matter that we're going to be covering today.
[03:25.480 --> 03:31.360]  So we're going to be, as you can see, I've, okay, okay, see that although, okay.
[03:31.360 --> 03:34.420]  So this is the book and you can get a hold of it.
[03:34.660 --> 03:40.140]  I'm tax-shattering the myths, Dr. Dave Champion, and if you don't, do you mind if I just call
[03:40.140 --> 03:41.820]  you possibly Dave today?
[03:41.820 --> 03:43.420]  Absolutely, please.
[03:43.420 --> 03:45.420]  Okay, thank you.
[03:45.420 --> 03:53.620]  So first off, I'd like to know because I've studied all different angles of like soul
[03:53.620 --> 03:59.180]  corpse and you know, your straw man, your name all in caps and for many years.
[03:59.220 --> 04:04.020]  And I know that we'll mention later that you also worked close with Aaron Russo on his
[04:04.020 --> 04:13.060]  film, which a lot of people have seen, America, Freedom to Fascism, the late great Aaron Russo.
[04:13.060 --> 04:20.060]  So how Dr. Dave Champion did you get on this path?
[04:20.060 --> 04:27.140]  Because you had to dig deep, deep down the rabbit hole to really understand the trickery
[04:27.140 --> 04:33.940]  that has been laid out by the IRS and others so that we can't get our way through what's
[04:33.940 --> 04:36.260]  real and what's not real.
[04:36.260 --> 04:41.580]  So what was your like aha moment when you were like, ah, something's not right here.
[04:41.580 --> 04:43.660]  I need to, I need to jump down this rabbit hole.
[04:43.660 --> 04:47.340]  Well, I owned a couple of businesses back in Southern California.
[04:47.340 --> 04:52.260]  This would have been 1992-ish and had a run-in with the IRS.
[04:52.260 --> 04:55.100]  I had an accountant on retainer.
[04:55.100 --> 04:56.900]  He was not doing his job.
[04:56.900 --> 05:01.940]  The IRS was sending him the mail, so I didn't even know there was a problem.
[05:01.940 --> 05:11.340]  And eventually one day my payroll account for my workers was levied to the tune of $32,000,
[05:11.340 --> 05:14.860]  which was a lot of money back in the early 90s.
[05:14.860 --> 05:24.980]  And so I was talking to some friends and they gently said, why are you even participating
[05:24.980 --> 05:25.980]  in this?
[05:26.060 --> 05:28.180]  We've got nothing to do with you.
[05:28.180 --> 05:31.740]  And so we talked a little bit and that was the genus.
[05:31.740 --> 05:36.260]  I understood because of my law enforcement background that if as a police officer I wanted
[05:36.260 --> 05:38.620]  to go and see something, I needed a warrant.
[05:38.620 --> 05:43.100]  But here in this circumstance, somebody at the IRS had pulled a form out of their desk.
[05:43.100 --> 05:47.340]  This is free being as computerized as we are today, had pulled a form out of their desk
[05:47.340 --> 05:52.260]  and signed the form, had their supervisor countersign it, ripped off the top page,
[05:52.260 --> 05:57.380]  put it in the mail to my bank and my bank took $32,000 of my property or more pointedly
[05:57.380 --> 05:59.980]  the property of the people who worked for me.
[05:59.980 --> 06:06.540]  And that signaled to me that something was wrong because I've read the Constitution many
[06:06.540 --> 06:11.820]  times and there's no such thing as an exception to the Fourth Amendment for income tax purposes.
[06:11.820 --> 06:16.340]  So my question was, this had never been adjudicated by a court.
[06:16.340 --> 06:20.380]  I wasn't even aware of the problem because it was the accountant's foul up.
[06:21.020 --> 06:25.820]  All of a sudden, $32,000 was gone and I said, something about this isn't right.
[06:28.460 --> 06:33.020]  By the way, I didn't buy into the whole argument that the income tax doesn't apply to the ordinary
[06:33.020 --> 06:38.300]  hard-working American. I didn't buy into that at the time, but something wasn't right.
[06:38.300 --> 06:44.700]  And that began a journey beginning in about early 1993 that continues to this very day.
[06:44.700 --> 06:51.340]  And in 2010, it resulted in income tax shattering that was being published.
[06:53.340 --> 06:57.100]  Well, you're one of the rare ones because we're so indoctrinated.
[06:57.100 --> 07:02.540]  I just heard somebody the other day, it was someone in the school system saying,
[07:02.540 --> 07:11.260]  well, I'm a good citizen. I pay my taxes. That's a line, but it's a psychological operation.
[07:11.900 --> 07:13.020]  It absolutely is, yes.
[07:13.020 --> 07:17.020]  It's been put in your head just like, oh yeah, I got the juice during COVID, right?
[07:17.020 --> 07:20.460]  Somebody's been calling it that and I think that's good. You can call it a bio-weapon
[07:20.460 --> 07:25.420]  injection, whatever you want to call it. But it's like, that was a big Psyop, right?
[07:25.420 --> 07:30.460]  Never have you seen such peer pressure because that's what they put out in society,
[07:30.460 --> 07:34.940]  little subliminal messaging, little sound bites here and there and you get it in your brain.
[07:34.940 --> 07:39.260]  You don't even realize I'm a good citizen. I pay my taxes. I know we're going to be shattering
[07:39.260 --> 07:44.060]  the myth on many of these things today because people think their taxes go to certain things,
[07:44.060 --> 07:50.700]  which they don't at all. So let me ask you something, Dave, just because I know when
[07:50.700 --> 07:56.940]  people choose, I admire and I've seen the tats on your hand, for example, and obviously here,
[07:56.940 --> 08:00.860]  but usually when people, I've noticed when they choose whatever they're going to
[08:00.860 --> 08:05.580]  tap, they think about it a lot and it means something to them. So I'm interested,
[08:05.580 --> 08:10.460]  just to take a moment here, what are the tats on your hands? I think I saw the word love.
[08:11.820 --> 08:15.180]  Yes, I'm going to try and hold these up a little bit for the audience. I know it's hard in this
[08:15.180 --> 08:20.780]  format. In the right hand and the left hand, there are two halves of a quote by Richard Haslett,
[08:22.540 --> 08:29.100]  19th century philosopher and writer. And on my right hand, it says,
[08:29.740 --> 08:37.340]  the love of liberty is the love of others. And on my left hand, it says the love of power
[08:37.340 --> 08:43.500]  is the love of ourselves. Wow. I bet you gave that a lot of thought.
[08:44.220 --> 08:48.620]  I did. I said Richard Haslett. It's actually William Haslett, excuse me.
[08:48.620 --> 08:54.460]  Okay. Yeah. When I came across that quote, I'm like, okay, so this is going on me somewhere and
[08:54.460 --> 08:57.980]  I ended up putting it on my hands because it seemed appropriate, the two halves.
[08:59.020 --> 09:05.180]  That's amazing. Okay. So thank you for that. And they're really cool. Yeah. So
[09:07.260 --> 09:12.460]  we're going to talk about this book and we're going to have a link below for people to buy it.
[09:12.460 --> 09:16.940]  If you've done anything important in your life, if you want to hop out of the matrix,
[09:16.940 --> 09:21.500]  that's what I call because I believe that you can call them the globalists, the autocrats,
[09:21.500 --> 09:25.420]  the narcissistic psychopaths, the all seeing eye at the top, whatever you want to call them,
[09:25.420 --> 09:32.620]  Illuminati, deep state that have been running the planet have tricked us not just into this
[09:33.500 --> 09:37.660]  because we're going to do shows on other topics, but this is like one of the biggest ones on the
[09:37.660 --> 09:45.820]  planet, certainly in this country. And I have to say, Dr. Dave, that I have not come across
[09:45.900 --> 09:57.420]  anyone to date as I have you who is the highest, has the highest expertise in this field of someone
[09:57.420 --> 10:01.260]  I've met and I've studied for years, many, many different things. So I just, I just want people
[10:01.260 --> 10:09.740]  to understand who's, who's on the show today. You did ask me, what were some of the things that you,
[10:09.740 --> 10:15.340]  that really surprised you in this book? And I'm just going to give you a little idea and then
[10:15.340 --> 10:22.940]  we're going to go as we, as we go into deeper context in detail today, we'll explore these.
[10:23.900 --> 10:30.220]  One of the things is that shocked me was the complete and utter wording trickery
[10:30.860 --> 10:37.340]  that they do. You, we read something and we go, well, yeah, I'm an employee or yeah, I'm a,
[10:37.420 --> 10:47.820]  I'm a citizen or I, you know, and then you explain precisely which proper definition must be used
[10:47.820 --> 10:57.100]  for that word that you have to first default to. And, and that's what you dug into. So the complete
[10:57.100 --> 11:02.060]  trickery that nobody would ever be able to figure out then when they want to change something,
[11:02.060 --> 11:07.260]  change the words or hide them because people are digging and finding out there's one of the
[11:07.260 --> 11:13.660]  things you talk about is to obliterate, obliteration where they can shift and it's like, oh, now they
[11:13.660 --> 11:20.540]  don't even have to show that anymore. So complete and utter trickery and you've dug down based on
[11:20.540 --> 11:27.660]  our constitution, the true definitions and what we're really supposed to be doing, which is not
[11:27.660 --> 11:33.420]  at all what they had us do. So that's one of the things. The other thing is the definition of who
[11:33.420 --> 11:39.580]  is supposed to be paying income taxes. And we're going to go over that. Okay. The description of
[11:39.580 --> 11:44.860]  one, two, three, and do you fit under that category? And most people in this country,
[11:44.860 --> 11:54.300]  including myself, do not. So that was another shocker. And gosh, you know, it's, it's,
[11:55.260 --> 12:04.940]  it's just unbelievable what we've been, we've been so hijacked. So I'm going to let you start
[12:04.940 --> 12:12.060]  and just know Dr. Dave Champion, that most people listening today may have not heard anything about
[12:12.060 --> 12:21.500]  this. So, so yeah, it probably is a case of first impressions for a lot of people. They may have
[12:21.500 --> 12:26.460]  heard things in their past like, oh, the income tax is unconstitutional, which is not true.
[12:27.580 --> 12:34.620]  It's impeccably constitutional. The question is, upon whom does Congress impose the tax? And that's
[12:34.620 --> 12:38.780]  an entirely different question. And I'm going to guess somewhere in the range of 95% of the
[12:38.780 --> 12:42.620]  American public has the answer wrong. And it's really not their fault. The government has
[12:42.620 --> 12:48.300]  set out willfully, knowingly, and intentionally to scam the American people into believing something
[12:48.300 --> 12:53.100]  that the law doesn't actually say. When I say they've scammed people into believing something
[12:53.100 --> 12:58.940]  the law doesn't actually say, over the last 30 years, whenever somebody has said to me, well,
[12:58.940 --> 13:05.660]  you know, I don't believe that the government would do that, or I don't believe your version
[13:05.660 --> 13:11.820]  of what the law says, I'm going to go with what I've heard the government say. So I asked them,
[13:12.140 --> 13:20.140]  I try not to do it in an antagonistic way, but I asked them, not forms, not instruction sheets,
[13:20.860 --> 13:30.140]  but actual words of tax law. How many have you read? Statutes, regulations, treasury decisions,
[13:30.140 --> 13:39.020]  treasury orders. How many words within those legal compendiums have you actually read? And the answer
[13:39.020 --> 13:47.980]  100% of the time over the last 30 years has been none, not a single word. But yet, they will say,
[13:47.980 --> 13:53.420]  well, I actually believe what the government says. And one of the things I've heard fairly frequently
[13:53.420 --> 14:00.140]  over the years, and just heard it, I don't know, three, four weeks ago, if you were right, Dave,
[14:00.140 --> 14:11.100]  this would be everywhere. So it would be everywhere if people weren't, two things,
[14:11.100 --> 14:20.540]  brainwashed and fearful. And there is a blackout in vast majority of the media,
[14:20.540 --> 14:26.620]  including even the podcast industry, on the truth about the income tax. A gentleman contacted me not
[14:26.620 --> 14:33.740]  too terribly long ago, and a close friend of his, a boyhood friend had been developing his podcast.
[14:33.740 --> 14:39.260]  And when his audience got to a certain size, one of these large podcasting platforms offered him a
[14:39.260 --> 14:45.180]  paying gig. And when they sent him the contract, the contract had a list of things that he agreed
[14:45.180 --> 14:50.620]  not to talk about as long as he was podcasting on that platform and receiving compensation from them.
[14:50.620 --> 14:55.500]  And one of the things on the list was not to talk about whether or not the income tax applies to
[14:55.500 --> 15:02.220]  ordinary working Americans. And obviously, the platform didn't come up with that. I mean,
[15:03.180 --> 15:08.380]  who would ever think to put that in a contract? Obviously, somebody in the government reached out
[15:08.380 --> 15:15.100]  to the platform and said, we want to make sure that on your platform, this isn't discussed.
[15:15.100 --> 15:21.260]  And if it is discussed, you can bet we're going to be crawling up your tax returns.
[15:21.260 --> 15:26.380]  And you're going to pay a lot more in taxes if this gets discussed on your platform.
[15:26.380 --> 15:30.380]  So now, it's impermissible to discuss that on their platforms.
[15:30.380 --> 15:31.420]  Sounds like the bomb.
[15:33.020 --> 15:40.620]  Oh, yeah. Yeah, right. Well, it is. I mean, I think there's a strong correlation between the
[15:40.620 --> 15:44.460]  tactics that organized crime has used over the years and the tactics that the United States
[15:44.460 --> 15:49.660]  government and the state governments use concerning income tax. You had mentioned definitions. And
[15:50.220 --> 15:55.500]  when we talk about, I don't want to say criminal conduct, because it's not,
[15:56.060 --> 16:01.740]  but it is certainly unethical conduct. It is non-transparent. It is everything that Americans
[16:02.460 --> 16:09.580]  believe should not take place by their government. And that is redefining words for use in law
[16:09.580 --> 16:14.540]  that we all are absolutely certain we know the meaning of, because we can just go to the English
[16:14.540 --> 16:18.940]  dictionary, flip a few pages. Oh, well, there it is right there. We know what that word means.
[16:18.940 --> 16:23.100]  We've known it since we were in elementary school. But then Congress comes along and they say,
[16:23.100 --> 16:26.140]  well, we're going to write this area of law. We're going to write this statute.
[16:26.700 --> 16:30.780]  And so, we're going to take a word that everybody understands, and we're going to change the meaning
[16:30.780 --> 16:36.780]  of that for the purpose of this law that we're writing. And we're going to put the definition
[16:36.780 --> 16:42.940]  section hundreds or thousands of pages away so that nobody actually understands what those words
[16:42.940 --> 16:49.180]  mean. And where we wind up, and by the way, the US Supreme Court has said this is a completely
[16:49.180 --> 16:57.180]  acceptable practice as long as Congress provides its corrupted definitions. As long as the definitions
[16:57.180 --> 17:06.940]  appear somewhere, then Congress is free to redefine words. And there's a lot of conversation in
[17:06.940 --> 17:11.100]  American society about transparency from the government, and this is the exact opposite of
[17:11.100 --> 17:21.740]  transparency. When the surest way for Americans to not understand the law is to read statutes as
[17:21.740 --> 17:26.300]  if the words they're reading have the same meaning as they do in an English dictionary.
[17:27.900 --> 17:34.060]  This is not by accident. It's not happenstance. This is by intent. Some areas of law are worse
[17:34.060 --> 17:40.060]  than others. Tax law, as an example, is the very worst out of the 50 plus titles in the United
[17:40.060 --> 17:46.380]  States Code, Title 26, which contains the income tax law, is the absolute worst at redefining words
[17:46.380 --> 17:54.140]  to fool, intentionally set out to trick the American people. And one of the things that
[17:54.140 --> 17:58.620]  people will find when they read Income Tax Shattering the Mist is that they would read
[17:58.620 --> 18:03.500]  through a statute and they would say to themselves, I get it. It's totally clear.
[18:04.940 --> 18:09.660]  And then if somebody points out, well, here's the definition of three or four words and what
[18:09.660 --> 18:15.180]  you just read that don't mean what they mean in Webster's. Here's Congress's definition.
[18:15.740 --> 18:17.580]  Suddenly they read through it again and they're like,
[18:19.980 --> 18:25.020]  that doesn't mean at all what I read the first time. Yeah, that's exactly how the game is played.
[18:25.660 --> 18:33.580]  Right. It's that and also, and I just want to tell our listeners that you have dug down,
[18:33.580 --> 18:38.780]  you have the statutes, the regulations, the code numbers. I mean, everything you have dug down
[18:38.780 --> 18:44.780]  and you've given many examples in the book of how they word it, complete and utter word trickery.
[18:44.780 --> 18:50.140]  And we just read it and go, okay, yeah, I got it. But then you go actually what that whole page
[18:50.140 --> 18:55.100]  just meant or those couple of paragraphs and you'll twiddle it down into one, two, three sentences,
[18:56.060 --> 19:01.980]  get right to the meat of it and go, this is actually what that means. And so
[19:01.980 --> 19:10.700]  it's not just happenstance, it's total trickery. Excuse me, it's a mindfuck.
[19:14.220 --> 19:20.940]  And when you read your book, Shattering the Miss, Income Tax, you can see you've displayed
[19:20.940 --> 19:26.460]  and thank you for doing all the work you've done. You're a true warrior. Yeah, I know why
[19:26.460 --> 19:33.660]  your last name's champion. So, thank you. But it's just such trickery. I mean, it's evil.
[19:38.380 --> 19:45.100]  Well, we'll go into the word, the definition of how they've created us to be slaves. A lot of
[19:45.100 --> 19:51.260]  us understand about the straw man and them making us corporations and soon as we're born, selling
[19:51.260 --> 19:55.740]  bonds off our back and they're making money off of us. And right now today we're just covering.
[19:55.740 --> 20:02.700]  Now, you, in your title, you have income tax. So can you tell our listeners what kind of tax
[20:02.700 --> 20:09.660]  you cover in this book that you talk about? I can. So there's the public perception,
[20:10.300 --> 20:15.100]  which is that held by, again, probably about 95% of the American people,
[20:15.660 --> 20:22.540]  that Congress has created laws that tax your labor. You get up in the morning,
[20:22.540 --> 20:27.100]  have a cup of coffee, get the kids breakfast off to school. You go to work to do whatever it is
[20:27.100 --> 20:33.900]  you do for a living and you collect pay every so often. And most Americans believe that Congress
[20:33.900 --> 20:39.820]  has taxed that activity. Congress has absolutely never taxed that activity. By the way, I should
[20:39.820 --> 20:45.340]  tell your audience, I've been filed and paid in 30 years and here I sit talking to you, unmolested
[20:45.340 --> 20:48.460]  by the government. And there's some very good reasons for that. And they're all laid out in
[20:48.460 --> 20:54.060]  income tax, shatter and miss. Now, so if Congress, if people are listening right now and they're
[20:54.060 --> 20:59.420]  saying, okay, if not me, then who? Because the income tax laws exist, right? So if they didn't
[20:59.420 --> 21:03.740]  tax Dave and they didn't tax Sherry and they didn't tax the gal over here or the guy over there,
[21:04.540 --> 21:13.340]  who do they tax? And Congress has taxed three, what the law calls classes of person, that's the fancy
[21:13.340 --> 21:21.260]  legal wording for categories. Congress has taxed three categories of people. Number one,
[21:22.620 --> 21:30.460]  non-resident aliens with U.S. source income. Number two, foreign corporations with U.S. source income.
[21:31.020 --> 21:37.740]  And number three, U.S. citizens residing abroad with foreign source income. And
[21:37.980 --> 21:45.900]  there is a fourth category, a party upon whom Congress has not imposed the tax but has made
[21:45.900 --> 21:53.980]  the person liable to pay the tax of the other guy. And that's somebody that's referred to as
[21:53.980 --> 21:59.820]  a withholding agent. You came across that term repeatedly in the book. And so we talked about,
[21:59.820 --> 22:04.860]  say, a non-resident alien with U.S. source income. So if that U.S. source income is actually in a
[22:05.820 --> 22:12.300]  pipeline, it's going from its U.S. origin to its foreign owner, if there's somebody here in the
[22:12.300 --> 22:19.260]  pipeline, so the payment goes from the origin to this intermediary and then goes offshore to the
[22:19.260 --> 22:25.500]  non-resident alien, the intermediary is responsible for withholding the U.S. income tax before the
[22:25.500 --> 22:29.660]  money goes offshore, because how would the government collect its taxation once the money
[22:29.980 --> 22:36.140]  is overseas, right? So the withholding agent is made liable. He's required to deduct and withhold
[22:36.140 --> 22:43.980]  the U.S. income tax from the non-resident alien's U.S. source income. And as soon as the withholding
[22:43.980 --> 22:49.500]  agent withholds, he becomes liable to the United States government and is required to file a return
[22:49.500 --> 22:54.940]  and pay over that tax money to the government. So you've got the three classes upon whom Congress
[22:54.940 --> 23:00.380]  has imposed the tax, and you've got one party who is made liable to pay that imposed tax.
[23:00.380 --> 23:04.780]  Did I say that all clearly? Yes. And we still have to think about it. And I've heard you say
[23:04.780 --> 23:07.980]  that before. And I'm going to ask you one more time, because this is one of the most important
[23:07.980 --> 23:12.780]  things on this show. I have it written down here, but if you can repeat one more time
[23:13.580 --> 23:19.740]  that Congress has imposed the income tax on and these three categories.
[23:20.060 --> 23:27.420]  Number one, non-resident aliens with U.S. source income. Number two, foreign corporations with
[23:27.420 --> 23:33.420]  U.S. source income. Number three, U.S. citizens residing abroad with foreign earned income.
[23:35.740 --> 23:43.260]  Okay. So the majority of the people in this country do not fit under that category.
[23:44.300 --> 23:48.060]  Yes. And I'm guessing the vast, vast, vast majority of your audience,
[23:48.060 --> 23:54.380]  who's watching us right now, would say, well, wait, then why am I paying? And the answer to
[23:54.380 --> 23:58.540]  that is, and I mean no offense to anybody, the answer is you never read the law. You actually
[23:58.540 --> 24:05.580]  just believe what you're told, which is a huge mistake. And it would take like, it's almost like
[24:05.580 --> 24:10.780]  getting a degree, but thank you for what you've done in pointing that and helping us out. Now,
[24:10.780 --> 24:15.980]  let's just talk a second about when you talked about that withholding agent. So is it sort of
[24:16.460 --> 24:22.140]  trickery that someone's employee is kind of like in that role of the withholding agent?
[24:22.780 --> 24:29.740]  For example, give us an example. Or is it like they trick us into taking that sort of role? I
[24:29.740 --> 24:35.660]  mean, it's all trickery. Oh, yes. Yes. It is absolutely trickery. So if we're talking about
[24:35.660 --> 24:42.060]  payroll withholding as an example, I've long said, for instance, you probably heard this,
[24:42.540 --> 24:51.500]  the rule of real estate is location, location, location. And in a similar way, the rule of law
[24:52.220 --> 24:58.860]  is context, context, context. So we take a look at payroll withholding. Payroll withholding is
[24:58.860 --> 25:06.140]  nothing more than a mechanism by which the government, acting through employer, the government
[25:06.140 --> 25:13.100]  collects income tax. So what we have to do then is acknowledge that payroll withholding
[25:13.100 --> 25:19.500]  is within the context. It's under the umbrella of income tax. It's not something separate.
[25:20.220 --> 25:23.580]  They're collecting income tax. I don't know anyone who's ever had money withheld from their
[25:23.580 --> 25:31.500]  paycheck who thought it was for anything other than paying income tax. So if the income tax
[25:32.220 --> 25:35.980]  has only been imposed on the three classes of persons we described,
[25:38.300 --> 25:45.340]  then why do companies withhold from the paychecks of ordinary hardworking Americans in
[25:45.340 --> 25:52.380]  Arizona and Alabama and Missouri and Colorado when the tax has never been imposed on them
[25:52.380 --> 25:58.380]  and they're merely exercising a collection mechanism that collects a tax not imposed on
[25:58.380 --> 26:02.940]  them? And this is where we get into a little bit of the trickery, more than a little bit of
[26:02.940 --> 26:11.340]  the trickery. So I'd like to share one of the definitions that you referred to that people
[26:11.340 --> 26:15.660]  believe they know the meaning of, but they really don't. And I want to share the meaning
[26:16.380 --> 26:21.740]  from the payroll withholding statute. Now I want to be very clear. The word that we're going to talk
[26:21.740 --> 26:28.460]  about so far, I have found seven different meanings for it in the tax code. So the meaning
[26:28.460 --> 26:32.620]  that we're going to be looking at today is only for the purpose of payroll withholding.
[26:33.580 --> 26:39.580]  So everybody knows payroll withholding is to be affected by the employer upon the employee. I
[26:39.580 --> 26:44.140]  don't think we need to get into reading the law on that. I think everybody would agree. So then
[26:45.340 --> 26:50.460]  let's take a look at the definition of employee for the purpose of payroll withholding.
[26:50.460 --> 26:55.260]  Now, before I get there though, let's talk about the word includes because that's very important.
[26:55.260 --> 27:00.380]  That's part of the trickery in the tax. Well, in law generally, people don't understand what it means.
[27:00.380 --> 27:08.700]  So includes most specifically in the tax code as a very specific definition. It's very long-winded
[27:08.700 --> 27:12.220]  and it's kind of a brain teaser, but I'm going to tell you what it means in a practical sense.
[27:12.940 --> 27:23.420]  When Congress lays out a definition, any items that appear after the word includes form a category.
[27:23.420 --> 27:29.580]  So let's take an example. Let's say Congress is passing a law about food. So they say for the
[27:29.580 --> 27:39.100]  purpose of this chapter, the term food includes, comma, everything after that forms a category.
[27:39.100 --> 27:49.340]  So if it was grapes, blueberries, pears, apples, what's the category? Fruit. Fruit. Remember,
[27:49.340 --> 27:56.620]  we've got to narrow the category down to what the items are. So it's fruit. So could we add,
[27:57.740 --> 28:04.380]  I don't know, an apricot to that definition? Sure. We could. That's the way includes works
[28:04.380 --> 28:11.420]  in tax law. You can consider to be part of a definition things that are not enumerated
[28:11.420 --> 28:16.060]  in the definition because they meet the same category. They're within the same category.
[28:16.060 --> 28:21.900]  So in this example, when we gave all the itemized items were fruit, then we can add fruit. If
[28:21.900 --> 28:26.620]  somebody said for the definition of food, does that include steak? Well, no, because the itemized,
[28:27.340 --> 28:31.180]  the items that are listed after the word includes could not possibly comprehend steak.
[28:31.180 --> 28:38.620]  Right? So the same thing occurs throughout the tax code. Includes is used for a lot of different
[28:38.620 --> 28:46.460]  definitions in the tax code. This one is going to be employee. Now this is employee for the purpose
[28:46.460 --> 28:53.980]  of payroll withholding. And you could find that at 26 USC 3401C, which reads, now pay attention
[28:54.060 --> 28:59.180]  after the word includes to what is listed because that forms the category.
[29:00.700 --> 29:06.620]  For the purpose of this chapter, the term employee includes an officer, employee,
[29:06.620 --> 29:12.300]  or elected official of the United States, any state, or any political subdivision thereof,
[29:12.300 --> 29:18.220]  or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the
[29:18.220 --> 29:26.380]  foregoing. Okay. So again, I want to run through briefly what was itemized after the word includes
[29:26.380 --> 29:30.940]  officer, employee, elected official of the United States, a state, or any political subdivision
[29:30.940 --> 29:35.260]  thereof, or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of
[29:35.260 --> 29:46.380]  the foregoing. So I would ask, we now know what the category is. The category is people who work for
[29:46.860 --> 29:52.140]  various government entities within Congress's exclusive legislative jurisdiction. By the way,
[29:52.140 --> 29:57.500]  state in that definition does not apply to the states of the union. It means federal states,
[29:57.500 --> 30:01.740]  places like Puerto Rico, Guam, the American Virgin Islands, and so forth.
[30:01.740 --> 30:05.820]  Washington, D.C.? Washington, D.C. as well. Yes. So
[30:07.820 --> 30:10.380]  I would ask people who are listening or watching right now,
[30:10.380 --> 30:18.460]  no matter how you try to mangle or twist or bend that definition for employee for the purpose of
[30:18.460 --> 30:29.900]  payroll holding, can you find any language in that definition about you? No. If you're
[30:29.900 --> 30:37.420]  an auto mechanic in Missouri, or you're a receptionist in California, or you're a typist
[30:37.420 --> 30:43.580]  in New York, can you find any language in that definition that would embrace you?
[30:44.780 --> 30:48.140]  I've been asking that question for 30 years and everybody says no.
[30:48.140 --> 30:51.820]  Sorry to interject because one of those was people who work for the government. Would that
[30:51.820 --> 30:59.900]  include school districts? No. Here's why. Let's read it again together.
[31:00.300 --> 31:06.860]  Okay. It is an officer, employee, or elected official of the United States,
[31:08.220 --> 31:13.900]  federal government, a state, federal state, not state of the union,
[31:15.820 --> 31:24.860]  or any political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality
[31:24.860 --> 31:30.940]  of any one or more of the foregoing. Since any school district is within a state of the union,
[31:32.540 --> 31:37.980]  this definition doesn't address that at all. By the way, the thing that I think should irritate
[31:37.980 --> 31:41.820]  a lot of people, for instance, in law enforcement, because people in law enforcement, I think
[31:45.020 --> 31:53.820]  their ethos is that they're administrating the law, that the law is important. The law has to be
[31:53.820 --> 32:01.100]  important. The very phrase law enforcement. Guys, gals, if you're in law enforcement,
[32:01.100 --> 32:07.420]  I just want you to know that withholding from your paycheck, there's absolutely no law
[32:08.300 --> 32:17.340]  in the United States, zero, that allows money to be taken out of your paycheck under the guise
[32:17.340 --> 32:23.180]  of this statute. Something to think about. Somebody reached out to me a couple weeks ago
[32:23.180 --> 32:25.740]  and said they work for a sheriff's department, and they're trying to actually
[32:27.260 --> 32:31.900]  communicate with the sheriff to have this reality recognized by the sheriff.
[32:31.900 --> 32:36.540]  We'll see what happens with that. Okay. One of the things that you mentioned in your book,
[32:36.540 --> 32:44.140]  Dr. Dave Champion, is you talk about which definition gets a protocol that they use first.
[32:44.140 --> 32:51.420]  You mentioned Black's Dictionary Law. That's sort of like the Bible, in a sense,
[32:51.420 --> 32:58.380]  with legal definition. I'll let you speak on that. Then there's Congress's definition,
[32:58.380 --> 33:06.460]  and then there's a definition in the Constitution, and you even quote many Supreme Court cases,
[33:07.100 --> 33:14.700]  but can you just give us a little brief on which definitions are the most important?
[33:14.700 --> 33:18.300]  Because it's all something that you have to realize in the word trickery here.
[33:19.980 --> 33:25.260]  Sure. There's a hierarchy. That's a great question. What is that hierarchy? First of all,
[33:25.260 --> 33:33.180]  the definitions that are provided for the purpose of the tax code. Now, the vast majority of those
[33:33.180 --> 33:43.100]  will be found in, again, Title 26, Section 7701, and then all the definitions are underneath there.
[33:43.660 --> 33:47.820]  Those are for the entire title, the entire tax code. However, it's important to understand
[33:47.820 --> 33:54.620]  that Congress has defined words there as an example, and then turned around and,
[33:54.620 --> 34:02.300]  200 pages later, said, for the purpose of the above paragraph, this word means this. They can
[34:02.300 --> 34:09.260]  do and will redefine words for the purposes of, I've seen it as narrow as a sentence,
[34:09.980 --> 34:16.780]  as used in the preceding sentence, this term means, as used in the preceding paragraph,
[34:16.780 --> 34:21.900]  this term means. They can give it one meaning for the whole code, but then come to this little
[34:21.900 --> 34:26.060]  section over here and give it a completely different meaning. That's how critical definitions are.
[34:26.060 --> 34:29.900]  That's the word smithing that they have used to fool the American people.
[34:30.380 --> 34:37.420]  So, the number one in this hierarchy is the definitions provided in the tax law.
[34:39.020 --> 34:43.420]  Different areas of law have different rules. For tax code, number one, the definitions that are
[34:43.420 --> 34:48.780]  provided for use exclusively in the tax code. Number two, Black's Law Dictionary is considered
[34:48.780 --> 34:57.020]  the preeminent resource for definitions as used in statutory law. So, if there is a legal term
[34:57.180 --> 35:08.220]  that's used in tax law, but tax law itself can change no specific definition,
[35:09.260 --> 35:16.140]  then you have to go to Black's Law Dictionary. If it is a word that we recognize in plain English,
[35:17.660 --> 35:22.140]  and it doesn't have a modified definition provided in the code, then we have to go to Webster's.
[35:22.460 --> 35:26.700]  Webster's. So, that's the hierarchy of how you have to look at the law.
[35:28.780 --> 35:36.540]  As an example, doing business. That sounds like just two words in the English language
[35:36.540 --> 35:43.340]  that are connected. Doing business. I do business, you do business, this guy over here does business.
[35:44.540 --> 35:50.780]  However, that's not what doing business means in tax law at all, and it's not defined in the tax
[35:50.780 --> 35:55.580]  code. You have to go to Black's Law Dictionary to find it, and you have to go to a number of
[35:55.580 --> 36:01.580]  Supreme Court cases and so forth in order to find the meaning. So, doing business in the tax code
[36:01.580 --> 36:10.140]  means it's a foreign corporation conducting its business within your jurisdiction. So, it doesn't
[36:10.140 --> 36:14.780]  mean you and it doesn't mean me. Another example that involves the word business, and this is used
[36:15.500 --> 36:21.420]  throughout the code. It is one of the most predominant phrases used in the code, and it
[36:21.420 --> 36:27.180]  has a very unique, distinct definition, and that is these words together. Trade or business.
[36:29.100 --> 36:37.020]  Trade or business has a very specific definition in tax law. Now, people who I think imagine maybe
[36:37.020 --> 36:40.460]  perhaps own their own businesses, and they're reading through the tax code, and they see,
[36:40.460 --> 36:47.420]  oh, this thing, whatever they're demanding, requesting, requiring pertains to parties engaged
[36:47.420 --> 36:51.660]  in trade or business. So, a business owner might say, well, that's me. I better rush out and do
[36:51.660 --> 36:59.660]  this, or I'm going to be in trouble with the IRS. So, the definition of trade or business in the tax
[36:59.660 --> 37:06.380]  code, and again, they tweak it sometimes in particular places, but the primary definition
[37:06.380 --> 37:14.380]  throughout the code of trade or business is the performance of a public office. Now, honestly,
[37:15.980 --> 37:19.180]  when you hear that, and I don't mean you, I'm talking about your audience. When you hear this,
[37:21.420 --> 37:26.860]  how does that make you feel that the government has used this phrase, trade or business, that
[37:27.740 --> 37:36.140]  334 million Americans believe they know what it means? And I think if you're listening a
[37:36.140 --> 37:41.180]  watching, you would admit that you would think that means the things you're engaged in to make
[37:41.180 --> 37:48.940]  money, but it actually means the performance of a public office. You have to be appalled
[37:49.980 --> 37:56.380]  at the sophistry, at the trickery, and that's one of, you know,
[37:57.180 --> 38:02.300]  Sherry, you've read it, so you know, it's one of many, many examples where Congress has
[38:03.260 --> 38:13.260]  redefined words, and we can't really find any just motive for having redefined it. I mean,
[38:13.260 --> 38:19.980]  why would you claim that the function of a public office is trade or business?
[38:22.140 --> 38:25.980]  If you were trying to trick the public, there would have to be a better way of saying that.
[38:25.980 --> 38:30.780]  There would have to be a more clear, more forthright, more transparent way of phrasing it.
[38:30.780 --> 38:35.100]  They didn't choose that. They chose the one that's complete and utter trickery.
[38:35.100 --> 38:39.980]  And these examples we're talking about, when people are reading Compact Shattering the Mist,
[38:39.980 --> 38:44.540]  they will find these examples given throughout the code. And then the fun part is, this is what I
[38:44.540 --> 38:51.100]  like to do. I like to take a paragraph or a couple sentences that use these definitions,
[38:51.900 --> 38:58.140]  pull the actual words or phrases out, and plug in the entire definition.
[38:59.100 --> 39:03.980]  So, for instance, instead of reading a statute for payroll withholding that uses the word employee,
[39:05.340 --> 39:10.140]  we say, payroll withholding must be done from, and then we read the definition in,
[39:10.140 --> 39:14.540]  as if the entire definition was written out. And suddenly when you do that, people say,
[39:15.420 --> 39:22.940]  good, bad, that has a 180 degree opposed meaning to what I thought it meant when I was reading
[39:23.260 --> 39:26.220]  that word as if it was just a plain English word.
[39:26.860 --> 39:30.300]  Right. And you get the true meaning. You get down to the true meaning.
[39:31.420 --> 39:37.100]  Yes. And the true meaning, normally 99% of the time, the true meaning is, oh, that's not me.
[39:38.860 --> 39:43.580]  Now, one of the other things that was the big shocker to me, and there were many,
[39:44.620 --> 39:52.140]  was that when somebody gets, when they fill out a, what is it, a W-9, and then you get a 10-40
[39:52.140 --> 39:58.780]  from filling out the W-9, but when you're filling it out, you're saying that I am one of the people
[39:58.780 --> 40:04.540]  under these three categories, which I'm not, and most people are not, under penalty of perjury,
[40:04.540 --> 40:13.180]  I am signing this form under penalty of perjury. So then you get to where, oh my God, I'm lying.
[40:14.060 --> 40:20.140]  I don't fit in with this category. And they're tricking me to sign under penalty of perjury that
[40:20.140 --> 40:29.420]  I'm one of these three categories, and I'm not. Yes. So people who own their own businesses are
[40:29.420 --> 40:35.180]  probably going to be screaming at their computer as I talk about this, you know, that's not true,
[40:35.180 --> 40:40.220]  because they're brainwashed, right? When they read Income Tax Shattering the Mist, they go,
[40:40.220 --> 40:45.500]  oh my God, he was telling the truth. Okay. So here's the actual purpose of, by the way,
[40:45.500 --> 40:51.660]  we should talk about how people understand the W-9. It's an errant understanding. But the way it
[40:51.660 --> 40:56.060]  is, let's say somebody's a carpet cleaner. So at night, they go around and they clean the carpets
[40:56.060 --> 41:01.180]  of businesses all throughout their community. And then when they take on a new customer,
[41:01.180 --> 41:05.260]  the customer says, hey, man, you did a great job on the carpets. I want to write you a check,
[41:05.260 --> 41:11.020]  but I need a W-9 in order to give you a check. Okay. So the carpet cleaning guy, he thinks,
[41:11.020 --> 41:18.140]  oh, that's normal. Every customer I've ever had has said, I need a W-9. So he puts this EIN on
[41:18.140 --> 41:24.300]  there and he fills in the particulars and he signs it under penalty of perjury. And he submits it to
[41:24.300 --> 41:32.300]  the companies whose carpets he cleaned. And then at the end of the year, they file a Form 1099
[41:33.420 --> 41:40.860]  against him. Okay. That's the generalized and errant understanding. Here's what a W-9 really
[41:40.860 --> 41:50.140]  means. And it's interesting because if there's an IRS form that gives its true purpose on the
[41:50.140 --> 41:55.340]  face of the form, I've never seen one. You have to go, you have to dig, dig, dig to find out what
[41:55.340 --> 42:01.020]  the true purpose is because they do not reveal it in this part of the scam. So here's what a W-9
[42:01.020 --> 42:06.140]  really means. And you people who own your own businesses, pay careful attention to this.
[42:07.100 --> 42:13.340]  When you sign a W-9 under penalty of perjury, you're raising your hand. You're saying, I declare
[42:14.540 --> 42:25.260]  under oath that I am a U.S. citizen or domestic corporation receiving U.S. source income that
[42:25.260 --> 42:33.420]  belongs to a foreign person. Okay. Remember we talked earlier about the U.S. source origin
[42:33.500 --> 42:37.820]  and the foreign owner. And sometimes there's this intermediary in the middle,
[42:37.820 --> 42:41.340]  sometimes a very complex financial arrangement. There's multiple intermediaries,
[42:41.340 --> 42:47.660]  but for this example, there's just one. So really what the person who signs the W-9 is saying is,
[42:48.380 --> 42:54.940]  I am this intermediary. I am a, and this is another one of these terms. I'm a U.S. person.
[42:55.900 --> 43:02.780]  Now, a lot of Americans consider themselves patriotic, right? So when they come across
[43:02.780 --> 43:09.180]  terms like U.S. person, and the law says a U.S. person is to do this and a U.S. person is to do
[43:09.180 --> 43:15.660]  that, I think a lot of Americans have the mindset, hell yeah, I'm an American. We talked about the
[43:15.660 --> 43:21.260]  patriotic aspect, right? Hell yeah, I'm a patriotic American, so I must be a U.S. person.
[43:22.780 --> 43:27.500]  Well, the reality is U.S. person, like many of the other terms we've talked about today,
[43:27.500 --> 43:34.220]  has its own definition. The term U.S. person was introduced in a tax law in 1962,
[43:34.220 --> 43:41.900]  and in every single time it has been used in context since 1962, it means the following.
[43:43.740 --> 43:50.940]  You are a U.S. citizen or domestic corporation who is receiving U.S. source income that belongs
[43:50.940 --> 43:57.180]  to a foreign person. If you go to the instructions for the form W-9, it says,
[43:57.180 --> 44:00.460]  it used to be on page one, I think they've moved it now, it's not like on page three or something,
[44:00.460 --> 44:08.860]  it says this form is only to be used by a U.S. person, okay? But you can imagine,
[44:08.860 --> 44:14.140]  with the paradigm we just talked about, oh, I'm a U.S. person, I'd better sign this W-9 right now.
[44:14.540 --> 44:17.900]  Right. Now you need to follow the Constitution.
[44:18.940 --> 44:24.380]  Right, right, and they think that they're being a patriotic American, just like you said at the
[44:24.380 --> 44:28.860]  outset of the show, well, I'm a good American, I pay my taxes. So they think I'm a good American
[44:28.860 --> 44:33.180]  because it says a U.S. person has to sign this, and I'm a U.S. person, but they have no idea what
[44:33.180 --> 44:38.300]  U.S. person actually means. By the way, U.S. person means different things in different areas of law,
[44:38.300 --> 44:43.180]  so we're talking about the definition, how it's applied in Title 26, the tax code. If you were in
[44:43.180 --> 44:47.340]  Title 8, immigration, or you were talking about the nuclear power industry, it would have an
[44:47.340 --> 44:51.980]  entirely different meaning. So, and it's, by the way, you know all those, I think U.S. person is
[44:51.980 --> 44:56.060]  used in almost every single title of the United States Code, but this is the meaning for the
[44:56.060 --> 45:05.100]  purpose of income tax. So, and this leads us to then where the IRS says to somebody, let's say
[45:05.100 --> 45:10.220]  somebody does not file. So a couple years down the road, the IRS says, hey man, where's your tax
[45:10.220 --> 45:18.060]  return? And I know you owe us a tax return because we've got these 1099, and we wouldn't have these
[45:18.060 --> 45:25.980]  1099, so the presumption of logos. We wouldn't have these 1099s if you hadn't given the company
[45:25.980 --> 45:33.180]  that you were doing work for a W-9, where you declared that you're receiving U.S. source income
[45:33.660 --> 45:41.980]  belongs to the foreign guy. Okay, so from the IRS's perspective, this is the way it looks.
[45:41.980 --> 45:47.020]  Of course, the agents you talk to don't know any of this. This is all at the highest level.
[45:47.020 --> 45:51.420]  Right. They like to keep their agents dumb, just like they keep the general population dumb.
[45:51.420 --> 45:57.500]  Okay, so really they have no clue. Yeah. No, they don't, and it's been interesting over the years
[45:57.500 --> 46:01.740]  educating some of them and watching how they argue, and then eventually the light comes on.
[46:02.700 --> 46:08.140]  Yeah, I actually had what I used to call my own personal IRS agent when I first started the battle
[46:08.140 --> 46:13.900]  back in the day. They assigned somebody to harass me, and I showed her the law and the law and the
[46:13.900 --> 46:18.940]  law and the law and the law, and like two years in, she transferred to the international division.
[46:20.060 --> 46:22.140]  She transferred to the what? International what?
[46:23.180 --> 46:27.180]  International. It doesn't exist anymore. They've renamed it since then, but back then it was the
[46:27.180 --> 46:32.620]  international division so that she didn't have to deal with the ethical issues that she had come
[46:32.620 --> 46:36.620]  to understand the tax doesn't apply to ordinary working Americans, so she transferred to the
[46:36.620 --> 46:41.260]  international division where there would be no ethical qualms that she would have no ethical
[46:41.260 --> 46:46.940]  qualms about going after taxpayers who didn't pay their U.S. income tax. And I support that,
[46:46.940 --> 46:51.660]  by the way. That's who the tax is imposed upon. Go after them. But if we go back to this scenario
[46:51.660 --> 46:55.260]  where the IRS says, hey, where's your tax return because we got these 1099s,
[46:56.380 --> 47:03.100]  the IRS's perspective is if the money belonged to a foreign person, there's only a couple of options.
[47:04.140 --> 47:13.660]  Either you still have the money, you're sitting on it, or you pushed it down the line to the
[47:13.660 --> 47:20.460]  next intermediary who's still a U.S. person, which would require another 1099 to be filed,
[47:20.460 --> 47:25.420]  that would show it was moved down the line. Or you paid it over to the foreign person,
[47:25.420 --> 47:31.100]  in which case you withheld the tax. We're going to say that we don't have any 1099s showing you
[47:31.100 --> 47:36.780]  pushed it down the pipe, so we're going to say that you paid that out to the foreign owner,
[47:37.500 --> 47:42.700]  which required you by law to withhold the tax, file a return, and pay it over. And we don't
[47:42.700 --> 47:48.780]  have that return, and we don't have that tax. Now, let's say the IRS takes almost nobody to
[47:48.780 --> 47:52.140]  criminal trial anymore. That's kind of a thing of the past. But let's say for the sake of this
[47:52.140 --> 47:58.300]  illustration that they take somebody to criminal trial over this. The poor American thinks that
[47:58.300 --> 48:03.660]  he's being taken to trial for not paying the tax on the money he earned, his own money.
[48:04.860 --> 48:10.780]  And that's not what they're taking him to trial about. They're taking him to trial because he
[48:10.780 --> 48:17.820]  didn't pay over the money that they're presuming he withheld before he sent the balance off to the
[48:17.820 --> 48:23.180]  non-resident alien or foreign corporation. The government's position is, if you paid that money
[48:23.180 --> 48:28.060]  to the foreign person, then you owe us, you were required by law to withhold, and you owe that to
[48:28.060 --> 48:33.580]  us. By the way, the law is very clear. Somebody who's required to withhold and doesn't is still
[48:33.580 --> 48:39.820]  liable for the foreign person's income tax. So their point of view is, if they take you to trial,
[48:40.540 --> 48:45.660]  they're saying you didn't pay the income tax you withheld on the foreign person's U.S. source
[48:45.660 --> 48:52.220]  income. How do you defend yourself against that when you're thinking they're coming after me for
[48:52.220 --> 48:58.540]  the money I earned as a mechanic last year? And never paid out to a foreign person. There was no
[48:58.540 --> 49:02.620]  foreign person on either end. Didn't belong to a foreign person. And coming around going.
[49:03.660 --> 49:06.700]  Right. There's no foreign person in play in that scenario at all.
[49:06.700 --> 49:13.820]  So I want to mention that what you're basing this on is the Constitution.
[49:14.860 --> 49:22.620]  And you do go into some things in your book, like what is direct, like that our income is our
[49:22.620 --> 49:27.020]  property. You go into all these different definitions. And I know we don't have time
[49:27.020 --> 49:33.500]  to go in depth, but I just want to reiterate to those listening that you're basing this on
[49:34.460 --> 49:41.260]  what on the actual like Constitution and definitions in our Constitution. And I'm
[49:41.260 --> 49:47.820]  certain our forefathers who wrote the Constitution knew exactly about the trickery that happened
[49:47.820 --> 49:53.020]  over in England, you know, that they wanted to get us away from when they started, you know,
[49:53.020 --> 50:00.380]  this country. But in any event, maybe you want to mention really quick about the, you know,
[50:00.380 --> 50:08.300]  there's direct tax indirect. Your property is your property. It's your inalienable right
[50:09.020 --> 50:11.740]  to hold that property. So can you talk a little bit about that?
[50:12.860 --> 50:19.340]  Sure. I'd like to rephrase what you said a little bit. Okay. Rather than say everything that I'm
[50:19.340 --> 50:23.740]  saying is based on the Constitution, the way I would characterize that is the reason that
[50:23.740 --> 50:28.300]  Congress has only imposed the income tax on those three classes of persons and has not,
[50:28.300 --> 50:33.980]  in fact, in law imposed the income tax on ordinary hardworking Americans and their labor
[50:33.980 --> 50:41.340]  is because Congress is surprisingly being obedient to the Constitution. Okay.
[50:43.340 --> 50:48.220]  If they did anything other than that, it would conflict with established U.S. Supreme Court
[50:48.220 --> 50:53.980]  decisions. So they had to stay within those constitutional guardrails. And they have,
[50:54.060 --> 50:58.780]  as far as what the law says, it's impeccably constitutional and they have stayed within
[50:58.780 --> 51:06.460]  the appropriate guardrails that the Constitution forced them into. What they did to do and run
[51:06.460 --> 51:12.300]  around that is they say, okay, so we can't make laws that tax Sherry or Dave on their labor.
[51:12.300 --> 51:20.300]  We can't do that. That's unconstitutional. But what we can do is we can spend 60 years convincing
[51:20.300 --> 51:26.380]  Sherry and Dave that they owe the tax to go ahead and sign these forms under penalty of perjury,
[51:26.940 --> 51:31.740]  such as the W-4 and the W-9. We've talked about the W-9, but not yet the W-4.
[51:31.740 --> 51:35.580]  We can trick the American people into signing these forms in which they declare under penalty
[51:35.580 --> 51:40.700]  of perjury they're within one of the classes upon whom we've imposed the tax and then we can go
[51:40.700 --> 51:46.620]  after them. Okay. So it's Congress that in its statutes has stayed impeccably within the
[51:46.620 --> 51:53.820]  Constitutional guardrails. And in a case called Bruce Shaver v. Union Pacific Railroad,
[51:55.500 --> 52:01.340]  the case was initiated shortly after 1913 and the decision was rendered in 1916. It is a seminal
[52:01.340 --> 52:06.140]  case on the 16th Amendment and what it means and what Congress can and cannot tax under the
[52:06.140 --> 52:11.260]  authority of the 16th Amendment. And there's a couple of interesting things. First of all,
[52:11.260 --> 52:16.860]  the court is very clear that the income tax is not a direct tax absent apportionment.
[52:16.860 --> 52:23.500]  For those who aren't aware, there's what scholars call a constitutional regulation in the
[52:23.500 --> 52:29.820]  Constitution. The direct taxes have to be apportioned among the states. Now, a direct tax
[52:30.620 --> 52:36.540]  has a broader meaning in general than it does in the U.S. Constitution. In the U.S. Constitution,
[52:36.540 --> 52:42.620]  a direct tax only applies to taxing slaves and real property. As of the 13th Amendment,
[52:42.620 --> 52:47.340]  of course, there's no more slavery. So now, direct tax is only upon property and it has
[52:47.340 --> 52:51.980]  to be apportioned among the states of the union. Congress has never in all of the years the United
[52:51.980 --> 52:57.420]  States has existed, Congress has never passed a direct tax. So the income tax is an indirect tax
[52:57.420 --> 53:04.620]  and the Constitution names three specific types of indirect taxes, imposed duties and excises.
[53:05.580 --> 53:12.540]  The Supreme Court has said and various federal courts have said the income tax is an excise tax.
[53:12.540 --> 53:19.180]  And the federal courts have said an excise tax, any excise tax, is a tax upon the exercise of a
[53:19.180 --> 53:26.300]  government granted privilege. So if the income tax is an excise, an excise is a tax upon the
[53:26.300 --> 53:31.100]  exercise of a government granted privilege, I would ask members of your audience, when they
[53:31.180 --> 53:34.860]  get up in the morning and they go off and they're going to work as a receptionist or they're going
[53:34.860 --> 53:43.340]  to be a doctor or they're going to be an auto mechanic, what have you. Where is the government
[53:43.340 --> 53:51.180]  granted privilege? Key word privilege. Right. And by the way, the privilege means something that you
[53:51.180 --> 53:57.580]  do not have a right to do. So in the United States, I think everybody knows without getting
[53:57.580 --> 54:01.500]  into the legalese that you have a right to earn a living. And the Supreme Court has said as much.
[54:02.780 --> 54:06.860]  The court has been very clear over the years. You have a constitutional right. Unalienable
[54:06.860 --> 54:11.500]  rights, yes. An unalienable right to earn a living. You have an unalienable right to contract
[54:12.300 --> 54:17.100]  both for your own labor and for the labor of others. You have an unalienable right to acquire,
[54:17.100 --> 54:22.460]  utilize and dispose of property, which is when you work. And here's an example I often give.
[54:23.340 --> 54:29.820]  Somebody says, hey Sherry, I need a ditch dug. And you're like, okay, show me. Well,
[54:29.820 --> 54:33.820]  I need it to go from here to here and I need it to be two feet deep. So you say to the guy,
[54:33.820 --> 54:38.300]  okay, I'll dig that ditch for a thousand dollars. He says, okay, you're on. I don't have the time to
[54:38.300 --> 54:42.620]  do it. So when you're done, let me know. I'll give you the grant. So you get out there and you dig
[54:44.620 --> 54:51.420]  that ditch. And when you're done, the gentleman with whom you contracted for your labor
[54:52.060 --> 55:02.780]  comes over and hands you a thousand dollars. He has a ditch that both of you set the value
[55:02.780 --> 55:13.180]  at a thousand dollars. So there's no gain. There's no profit. There's an exchange of equal value.
[55:13.180 --> 55:18.220]  And I'm not saying that that's not a controlling principle, but that principle applies to probably
[55:18.220 --> 55:22.700]  the vast majority of Americans who go to work. They exchange their time, their labor, their
[55:22.700 --> 55:31.900]  expertise, their knowledge in exchange for an agreed upon rate. As income is used for the purpose
[55:31.900 --> 55:38.860]  of the income tax, there is no income there. There is an exchange of equal value. You exchanged your
[55:38.860 --> 55:45.020]  time. You exchanged your mental horsepower. You exchanged your knowledge, your experience
[55:45.820 --> 55:51.260]  for an agreed upon payment. There's no income there as it's used for the purpose of the income
[55:51.260 --> 55:58.220]  tax law. And more importantly, since you have a constitutional right to earn a living and you did
[55:58.220 --> 56:05.020]  that, I hope everybody knows that the government is not allowed to tax the right. And they can't
[56:05.020 --> 56:12.700]  tax the right because here's how this works. If I said to you, let's say free speech. If I said to
[56:12.700 --> 56:20.780]  you, Sherry, in order to do this show, you have to pay the government $5. It would be a constitutional
[56:20.780 --> 56:29.660]  violation, but you could afford that. If I said, okay, now you owe the government $500 to do this
[56:29.660 --> 56:39.100]  show. $1,000, $5,000, $10,000. At what point would you no longer be able to exercise the right
[56:39.100 --> 56:44.060]  because you can't afford to pay the tax on the exercise of the right? That's the principle.
[56:44.060 --> 56:49.980]  That's why anything that is in an unalienable right cannot be taxed by the government. So says
[56:49.980 --> 56:58.380]  the US Supreme Court, not me. So I hope that your audience is starting to get this big broad picture
[56:59.420 --> 57:05.740]  that the entire income tax from front to back has been grossly misrepresented to them.
[57:06.380 --> 57:11.420]  And it's not an accident. It's willfully, knowingly, and intentionally done. And the purpose
[57:13.100 --> 57:20.220]  is to commit the largest financial crime in history, which has been ongoing now at least
[57:20.220 --> 57:27.820]  since World War II. And you mentioned in your book, working for a living is not a privilege,
[57:27.820 --> 57:37.820]  it's a right. And it's interesting too, well, we won't go into this, but anytime I hear the
[57:37.820 --> 57:46.620]  16th Amendment, I hear the word alleged before it, because it was quite another game of trickery
[57:46.620 --> 57:53.100]  to have that passed. And the guy was very nefarious who was involved with, and so we're going to hit
[57:53.100 --> 57:57.900]  on a little bit of history. So you can think about some foundation here. Like if anyone has read,
[57:57.900 --> 58:02.620]  for example, and I've interviewed G. Edward Griffin, I've met him personally, I've been to his home,
[58:03.340 --> 58:10.300]  who wrote The Creature from Jekyll Island. And it was all about in 1913. And by the way,
[58:10.300 --> 58:17.180]  that's when they passed the Federal Reserve. They got on a train from New Jersey at nighttime. They
[58:17.180 --> 58:21.180]  didn't want any of the press to know what they were doing, because it was quite nefarious.
[58:21.260 --> 58:26.380]  And they went down to, I believe it's an island off Georgia, Jekyll Island, and they met there
[58:26.380 --> 58:31.100]  in private to try to get this passed. Well, actually the year prior, they tried to pass it
[58:31.100 --> 58:37.260]  through the Congress, I believe it was the Congress, and it didn't pass. So what they did was they did
[58:37.260 --> 58:42.860]  some trickery and they put articles in the newspaper saying it was actually the other party
[58:42.860 --> 58:47.020]  wanting to get it through instead of the actual party that wanted to get it through. So it was
[58:47.020 --> 58:51.420]  all this trickery done. And then these guys, because they knew what the big plan was,
[58:51.420 --> 59:00.220]  it was basically to take advantage of us and just to rape the American people of any and every bit
[59:00.220 --> 59:05.180]  of fiat, you know, well, at the time it was gold backed, but money that they possibly could.
[59:05.980 --> 59:11.580]  Unjustly so. So while you're on the 16th Amendment, can I make a quick comment? Yes.
[59:12.300 --> 59:17.900]  Okay. So if you write to the IRS and you say, what is your authority to administrate an income tax,
[59:17.900 --> 59:24.940]  they will write back and say it is the 16th Amendment. So that's a lie. In the Bruce Schaber
[59:24.940 --> 59:27.820]  case, which we referenced earlier, and by the way, I go through the Bruce Schaber case with a fine
[59:27.820 --> 59:31.660]  toothed comb and income tax, you are left with no illusions about what the court is saying.
[59:32.220 --> 59:40.300]  Okay. In Bruce Schaber, the court was very clear. The 16th Amendment did not grant
[59:42.140 --> 59:49.340]  Congress any new or additional taxing powers. That's repeated in Stanton, mining,
[59:49.340 --> 01:00:00.060]  and a couple of the other cases. So the way the court has interpreted this is that
[01:00:01.020 --> 01:00:07.100]  if Congress... I need to go take a step back. The 16th Amendment, in reality, as opposed to
[01:00:07.100 --> 01:00:10.940]  what the public believes, in reality, it was meant to correct an errant decision made by
[01:00:10.940 --> 01:00:15.740]  the Supreme Court in 1895, something called the Pollock case. And the Pollock case got it wrong.
[01:00:15.740 --> 01:00:22.460]  That was a mistake. So the 16th Amendment was meant to correct that problem from Pollock.
[01:00:23.500 --> 01:00:28.460]  All it did was it changed a particular rule in a particular set of circumstances.
[01:00:28.460 --> 01:00:32.780]  It didn't make the income tax apply to anybody new or different. And that's why the court said
[01:00:32.780 --> 01:00:37.500]  it grants Congress no additional income tax or no additional taxing of power.
[01:00:38.540 --> 01:00:44.380]  So in reality, if Congress didn't have the authority to tax something, such as our labor,
[01:00:45.100 --> 01:00:51.500]  before the 16th Amendment, it still didn't have the authority to tax our labor after the 16th
[01:00:51.500 --> 01:00:58.380]  Amendment. There's been a lot of talk about getting the 16th Amendment removed. And the only thing
[01:00:58.780 --> 01:01:04.700]  advantage I can see to removing the 16th Amendment from the Constitution would be that
[01:01:06.540 --> 01:01:13.180]  people would see that the income tax, the current modern income tax, is not dependent on the 16th
[01:01:13.180 --> 01:01:19.100]  Amendment. Because if we repeal the 16th Amendment, the modern income tax would go on because it
[01:01:19.100 --> 01:01:24.780]  doesn't rely on the 16th Amendment. The 16th Amendment only corrected one aspect from the
[01:01:24.780 --> 01:01:29.340]  Pollock case. That's it. It didn't do what kids are taught in school. And I know this because I
[01:01:29.340 --> 01:01:34.860]  read my daughter's history book, her textbook, and it literally says the 16th Amendment allowed
[01:01:34.860 --> 01:01:43.500]  the government to tax the American people. On what? Okay. And one of the things we mentioned
[01:01:44.620 --> 01:01:49.340]  was the Federal Reserve, which is not government and has no reserves. So that's, again, trickery,
[01:01:49.340 --> 01:01:55.420]  right? But you do mention who answers to who. We have the IRS, we have the Federal Reserve,
[01:01:55.420 --> 01:02:05.900]  we have the Treasury Secretary. And so can you just mention to our listeners who answers to who,
[01:02:05.900 --> 01:02:09.180]  just to sort of put this into retrospect here as we go on?
[01:02:10.540 --> 01:02:15.100]  Sure. I want to start with the fact that the Federal Reserve Act, as you noted, was passed in
[01:02:15.100 --> 01:02:19.900]  1913. It's the same Congress in the same session that passed the Income Tax Act.
[01:02:21.500 --> 01:02:26.700]  It's not happenstance again. The reason that they were passed together by the same Congress
[01:02:26.700 --> 01:02:32.780]  in the same session was because the income tax was a necessary part of creating the Federal Reserve
[01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:39.340]  because the Federal Reserve's job would be nice to say loan the federal government money,
[01:02:39.900 --> 01:02:45.900]  but only loans of interest, right? So the purpose of the income tax was a separate source
[01:02:47.500 --> 01:02:52.220]  by which the government could collect this money out of the population and give it to the bankers
[01:02:52.220 --> 01:02:56.220]  in the form of interest. That's why they were passed at the same time by the same Congress.
[01:02:56.220 --> 01:03:03.660]  Okay. So the hierarchy, it goes like this. Congress passes statutes. Statutes are what we all have to
[01:03:03.660 --> 01:03:07.660]  live by. Even the President, there's a lot of confusion about this. Even the President of
[01:03:07.660 --> 01:03:11.820]  the United States has to stay within the guardrails of the statutes enacted by Congress.
[01:03:11.820 --> 01:03:17.660]  However, once a specialized topic like income tax, then one of the cabinet departments
[01:03:18.860 --> 01:03:23.900]  is tasked with administrating that. So we start with Congress's statutes about income tax.
[01:03:23.900 --> 01:03:28.780]  That is administrated by the Treasury Department, by the Secretary of the Treasury.
[01:03:29.900 --> 01:03:34.780]  And the federal courts have ruled that for income tax purposes, the regulations control,
[01:03:34.780 --> 01:03:42.540]  not the statutes. Okay. So then if we want to march down from the regulations, the next level
[01:03:42.540 --> 01:03:47.820]  down is something called Treasury decisions. So you've got statutes, regulations, and Treasury
[01:03:47.820 --> 01:03:53.340]  decisions. And the Treasury decisions usually are the basis from which the Secretary creates
[01:03:53.340 --> 01:03:57.580]  regulations. But now let's talk about Treasury decisions for a moment. Most Americans don't even
[01:03:57.580 --> 01:04:02.620]  know they exist. Most are aware the statutes exist, and many are aware regulations exist,
[01:04:02.620 --> 01:04:07.420]  but almost nobody knows these things beneath that called Treasury decisions.
[01:04:07.420 --> 01:04:11.100]  So this is a really important thing to talk about, and I'm going to make it brief,
[01:04:11.100 --> 01:04:16.780]  but you're going to see why. If you go through the entire income tax code, the statutes,
[01:04:17.900 --> 01:04:24.220]  you will never ever find Form 1040 mentioned. It always talks about a person whose libel is
[01:04:24.220 --> 01:04:33.020]  required to file a return. Okay. What return? No place in Congress's laws, as I mentioned,
[01:04:33.020 --> 01:04:40.380]  Form 1040. You get into the regulations. No place in the regulations. Now we're talking about 111
[01:04:40.380 --> 01:04:44.620]  years, Sherry, as you and I are sitting here talking about this. 111 years after the income
[01:04:44.620 --> 01:04:52.220]  tax was enacted. And the regulations of the Secretary are voluminous. They could fill up
[01:04:52.220 --> 01:04:59.660]  an entire wall of your home in eight point type. Okay. But yet in 111 years, there's no indication
[01:04:59.660 --> 01:05:06.540]  of what tax return you or I might perhaps be expected to file. 1040, never mentioned.
[01:05:08.220 --> 01:05:14.860]  So how would we even know? Well, it's found in Treasury decisions. And this is a really, I think,
[01:05:16.220 --> 01:05:20.540]  this is a really fun thing in that it's difficult for anyone to get past this.
[01:05:21.500 --> 01:05:26.300]  In the 111 years that the Secretary of the Treasury has been writing Treasury decisions,
[01:05:27.020 --> 01:05:34.300]  in 10 Treasury decisions, the Secretary has said that Form 1040 is to be used by a non-resident
[01:05:34.300 --> 01:05:41.740]  alien with U.S. service income or the non-resident alien's domestic agent, i.e. U.S. person, as we
[01:05:41.740 --> 01:05:48.860]  talked about a moment ago. Okay. 10 Treasury decisions say that's who is to use a 1040.
[01:05:49.580 --> 01:05:55.660]  So would you care to guess how many Treasury decisions in that same 111 year period
[01:05:56.540 --> 01:06:05.020]  say that anyone else other than a non-resident alien or the non-resident alien's domestic agent
[01:06:05.020 --> 01:06:14.460]  is to use a Form 1040? Zero. Right. That would be absolutely zero. That is where you don't find it
[01:06:14.460 --> 01:06:17.900]  in the statutes. You don't find it in the ranks. Those are two things people know about and will
[01:06:17.900 --> 01:06:23.340]  look at. It's found in Treasury decisions, which nobody knows about. Therefore, nobody would look
[01:06:23.340 --> 01:06:28.700]  there. And that's where you find out who is to use the Form 1040. You know, if people...
[01:06:29.900 --> 01:06:36.300]  Just repeat that. Treasury decisions. That's like a category. That's like a source of information
[01:06:36.300 --> 01:06:41.500]  that you mention. It's an authoritative source. It is published. They are published for the
[01:06:41.500 --> 01:06:45.660]  American people. They are published for the IRS. They are published for the Treasury Department.
[01:06:45.660 --> 01:06:51.420]  They are published for income tax professionals. And more importantly, the employees of the
[01:06:51.420 --> 01:06:57.020]  Treasury Department and the Internal Revenue Service, it is mandatory that they follow what
[01:06:57.020 --> 01:07:01.260]  is in a Treasury decision. Now, I'm not advocating people go down and get in a pissing match with the
[01:07:01.260 --> 01:07:07.020]  IRS. I see it as just the opposite. You want to walk away cleanly and never hear from them ever
[01:07:07.020 --> 01:07:12.700]  again. But you could imagine, based on what I just said, if somebody found themselves in the room with
[01:07:12.700 --> 01:07:18.700]  an IRS agent and said, okay, so you think I'm liable for a tax. What return would you advocate
[01:07:18.700 --> 01:07:27.740]  that I file? Well, I'll be a 1040. Uh-huh. And where... I can show you the 10 Treasury decisions
[01:07:27.740 --> 01:07:32.300]  that say it's to be used by a non-resident alien or for, excuse me, a non-resident alien with US
[01:07:32.300 --> 01:07:37.100]  source income or the domestic agent thereof. I can show you those 10 Treasury decisions.
[01:07:37.100 --> 01:07:40.780]  Why don't you show me the one that says that it's for an ordinary American in one of the
[01:07:40.780 --> 01:07:44.220]  50 states earning his or her own domestic source income? Why don't you show me that one?
[01:07:45.820 --> 01:07:46.460]  Doesn't exist.
[01:07:49.740 --> 01:07:55.660]  Okay. Let's talk about this. Well, before I ask you where does all the income tax that they
[01:07:55.660 --> 01:08:01.580]  collect go to, because that's another myth that we're going to unshatter, I want to just ask you,
[01:08:02.620 --> 01:08:09.340]  I know that at one point you've had conversations with different people and you can walk circles
[01:08:09.340 --> 01:08:14.620]  around, for example, tax attorneys. And I know you came upon at one point, I'm not sure how many
[01:08:14.620 --> 01:08:19.500]  years ago it was, but the number one tax attorney in New York City. Okay. I mean, really, if you
[01:08:19.500 --> 01:08:23.340]  think about in the country, probably where the number one tax attorney is going to be in the
[01:08:23.340 --> 01:08:30.780]  entire country is most likely going to be in Manhattan. But in any event, you know the law,
[01:08:30.780 --> 01:08:35.020]  these tax attorneys, tell us a little bit about that because everyone thinks, oh, well,
[01:08:35.020 --> 01:08:43.580]  their tax attorney, they know everything. Okay. So a friend of mine who came out of the
[01:08:44.140 --> 01:08:49.580]  special operations community in the US military, he ended up after 9-11 becoming the CEO of a
[01:08:49.580 --> 01:08:54.620]  military training company. That was big business at that time. And because it was big business
[01:08:54.620 --> 01:08:59.980]  at that time, his primary investors were three of the wealthiest men on Wall Street. And they
[01:08:59.980 --> 01:09:05.100]  worked together. They had an entity. And through that entity, they funded the corporation
[01:09:06.780 --> 01:09:11.100]  of which he was CEO. And so he told them, he knows everything we're talking about today,
[01:09:11.100 --> 01:09:15.820]  he told them, I'm not going to sign a W-4 because a W-4 doesn't apply to me. A W-4 is for a non-resident
[01:09:15.820 --> 01:09:23.500]  alien with US source income who is working for one of these government agencies that are within the
[01:09:23.500 --> 01:09:29.020]  exclusive legislative jurisdiction of Congress. And this private corporation is not, and I'm not
[01:09:29.100 --> 01:09:37.660]  a non-resident alien. I'm not going to decide that. So we ran around a little bit and eventually,
[01:09:39.420 --> 01:09:46.620]  here's how the call went. It was the CEO, me, then there was a gentleman that I would say,
[01:09:47.260 --> 01:09:52.060]  remember what Michael Cohen was to Trump back in the day before they had their falling out?
[01:09:52.060 --> 01:09:57.900]  Yeah. So this guy was sort of a fixer for these three guys. And very smart, urbane,
[01:09:57.900 --> 01:10:06.140]  debonair gentleman. And he had asked the top tax attorney in New York City to be on the call.
[01:10:06.140 --> 01:10:14.540]  So here we are on the call. And this gentleman, the fixer, he describes the situation. And so
[01:10:14.540 --> 01:10:25.740]  we start having the dialogue and the very cocky New York tax attorney, she starts saying, well,
[01:10:25.740 --> 01:10:32.220]  that's not true. And that's not true. And let me tell you how it is. And she was on fire. She was
[01:10:32.220 --> 01:10:39.340]  going to own that conversation, except it didn't turn out that way. I would let her say her piece.
[01:10:40.140 --> 01:10:45.180]  And then I would say, so that's not what the US Supreme Court has said. Allow me to read to you
[01:10:45.180 --> 01:10:49.900]  what the court has said about that issue. I would read her something from the United States Supreme
[01:10:49.900 --> 01:10:55.580]  Court decision. I would say, so as you see, I hear you. We all hear you on the call,
[01:10:56.220 --> 01:11:02.220]  but the US Supreme Court says you're wrong. That's not factual. So she would launch in another
[01:11:02.220 --> 01:11:08.460]  direction. And I'd say, I hear what you're saying. But let's take a look at these definitions we
[01:11:08.460 --> 01:11:13.580]  talked about earlier. Let's talk about what the definition of that word is, because apparently
[01:11:14.540 --> 01:11:18.620]  you think it means what Webster says it means. But let's take a look at
[01:11:18.620 --> 01:11:22.380]  what Congress has said it means for the purpose of the statute you're referring to.
[01:11:23.100 --> 01:11:30.300]  And we'd straighten that out, and she'd lose another round, and on and on, just like that
[01:11:30.300 --> 01:11:34.940]  with everything. From my end of things, very calm. I've got all the evidence. And she was wrong,
[01:11:34.940 --> 01:11:40.860]  wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. During that entire call, I don't think she ever stated anything
[01:11:41.580 --> 01:11:47.100]  that she was not immediately thereafter presented with evidence that her interpretation was false.
[01:11:48.060 --> 01:11:54.060]  Not legally accurate. And so at the end of the call,
[01:11:55.900 --> 01:12:02.140]  she said something like, because she'd lost every round, and she was pissed. Here's the top tax
[01:12:03.340 --> 01:12:08.540]  attorney in New York, and as you mentioned, then probably by association, perhaps the top of the
[01:12:08.540 --> 01:12:15.020]  country, yes? And she lost every round, every single point. Didn't even get on the scoreboard.
[01:12:15.900 --> 01:12:20.700]  So she says at the end, I'm just going to tell my clients to withhold from him W-4,
[01:12:20.700 --> 01:12:28.060]  no W-4. She was pissed. And I said, you know, that's a really interesting perspective. I said,
[01:12:28.060 --> 01:12:36.380]  remember the bar. I said, because what I heard you say is that you're going to advocate to your
[01:12:36.380 --> 01:12:44.940]  clients that they violate the law. You're telling them to break the law. I didn't say that. I said,
[01:12:45.340 --> 01:12:49.260]  we've already covered the W-4. We've already covered the definitions on payroll withholding.
[01:12:49.260 --> 01:12:54.060]  We've already covered who the tax is imposed upon and who it's not. And it clearly is not my client.
[01:12:55.260 --> 01:13:01.260]  And I said, so with all of that understood, I said, I don't think there's any confusion about
[01:13:01.260 --> 01:13:09.260]  what the record of this call shows. So after being wrong, respectfully, after being wrong 100% of the
[01:13:09.260 --> 01:13:16.540]  time on this call, you're going to tell your clients to violate the law. She lost it, screaming,
[01:13:16.540 --> 01:13:22.300]  yelling. And at that point, the gentleman who was their fixer, he said, well, I think we've
[01:13:22.300 --> 01:13:29.100]  gone about as far as we should go today and ended the call. So what's the punchline on that? So
[01:13:32.060 --> 01:13:36.540]  one of the three men, again, these are three of the wealthiest men in America, picked up the phone
[01:13:36.540 --> 01:13:41.180]  and called the CEO and said, I got a report about how that call went.
[01:13:44.060 --> 01:13:47.660]  He said, so I guess now at this point, we have to simply tell you,
[01:13:49.260 --> 01:13:51.020]  we're not interested in what the law says.
[01:13:53.500 --> 01:13:57.420]  We're going to give you a 30% pay increase and you're going to sign a W-4. And if you don't,
[01:13:57.420 --> 01:14:04.700]  you're out. You're not the CEO anymore. So what they did is gave him 30% to compensate
[01:14:04.700 --> 01:14:11.500]  for the taxes that were going to be taken out of his paycheck. And literally, bold face,
[01:14:12.620 --> 01:14:17.100]  because they'd all known one another for many years. So there was no equivocation. There was
[01:14:17.100 --> 01:14:22.380]  no sophistry. Came right out and said, at this point, we just need to be forthright with you.
[01:14:22.380 --> 01:14:27.660]  We don't care what the law says. That's not important to us. And as multi-billionaires,
[01:14:29.340 --> 01:14:31.900]  what are you going to do to a multi-billionaire when he says, I don't care what the law says?
[01:14:32.300 --> 01:14:39.820]  Wow. That's so disappointing. I mean, just like my solar plexus is exploding. At the beginning of
[01:14:39.820 --> 01:14:46.700]  every chapter, I mean, at the beginning of every chapter in your book, you have really some great
[01:14:47.740 --> 01:14:54.300]  quotes. And I'm going to read one right now, just because what you just said, that people know
[01:14:54.300 --> 01:14:59.420]  they're doing wrong, but they just are entrapped in the matrix in the system. And they just don't
[01:14:59.500 --> 01:15:04.700]  want to make any waves. How are we going to ever have freedom? We, the people, you know? I mean,
[01:15:04.700 --> 01:15:09.980]  if you see your freedom, freedom is not free. And if you see it's out there and you can grab it,
[01:15:09.980 --> 01:15:13.020]  pretty soon it's going to be so far in the distant, we're not going to be able to grab it.
[01:15:13.020 --> 01:15:19.500]  That's the point we're at right now. But I'm just going to read one of these. And this happens to
[01:15:19.500 --> 01:15:24.780]  be chapter eight. It's called Employ Who Me. But the quote you have at the top of that one
[01:15:24.780 --> 01:15:31.100]  is by, well, I'll tell you who it's by after I read it. The lie can be maintained only for such
[01:15:31.100 --> 01:15:38.300]  as the state can shield the people from the political, economic, and or military consequences
[01:15:38.300 --> 01:15:46.140]  of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the state to use all of its powers to repress
[01:15:46.620 --> 01:15:52.940]  all of its powers to repress dissent. For the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie.
[01:15:53.500 --> 01:16:00.620]  And thus, by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the state. And that's by Dr.
[01:16:00.620 --> 01:16:10.540]  Joseph M. Goebbels, who was the Reich Minister of Propaganda between 1933 and 1945. So, you know,
[01:16:11.340 --> 01:16:19.820]  if we don't stand up, we're just like going down the toilet. Let's, that's just an amazing,
[01:16:21.420 --> 01:16:24.940]  I just wanted to quickly say something because you're talking about, what I hear you talking
[01:16:24.940 --> 01:16:29.500]  about is standing up. Okay, it's, do the right thing. It's stand up for yourself, stand up for
[01:16:29.500 --> 01:16:36.460]  your country, stand up for freedom. So, I was recently on a Libertarian podcast, and I made
[01:16:36.940 --> 01:16:42.700]  the point there, you would think Libertarians, right? Republicans and Democrats, there's nothing
[01:16:42.700 --> 01:16:46.620]  you see talking about either of them. They're not doing anything for the American people.
[01:16:47.500 --> 01:16:53.900]  It's, what is it, the two butt cheeks of the same ass. But one would like to think that Libertarians
[01:16:53.900 --> 01:17:00.620]  are perhaps different. I mean, liberty is the root of the word Libertarian, right? But what
[01:17:00.620 --> 01:17:05.740]  I was talking with this Libertarian host about is there is currently a blackout by all of the
[01:17:05.740 --> 01:17:12.460]  Libertarian party leadership on talking about the truth of the income tax. Not one of them, not one
[01:17:14.220 --> 01:17:19.500]  will talk about the truth of the income tax in public. And these are all big names.
[01:17:22.460 --> 01:17:27.500]  I guess my thing is that if we can't count on the Republicans because they're one cheek of the same
[01:17:27.500 --> 01:17:31.180]  ass, we can't count on the Democrats, they're the other cheek. And then we've got this third
[01:17:31.180 --> 01:17:35.980]  party who's, I think it would be fair to say is a failed party, but we've got this third party,
[01:17:35.980 --> 01:17:46.940]  and they are engaged in self-censorship. They won't talk, Libertarians won't talk about how
[01:17:46.940 --> 01:17:51.660]  to create smaller government. One of the ways would be to shut off the funding.
[01:17:53.900 --> 01:17:59.180]  And here's the thing, we don't need to engage in civil disobedience, right?
[01:18:00.140 --> 01:18:05.180]  All people need to do is read a book. I mean, yeah, they can go look it up for themselves,
[01:18:05.180 --> 01:18:09.420]  but that's going to take them forever. Or they can read a book. But I think you would agree,
[01:18:09.420 --> 01:18:12.780]  Sherry, by the time they close the final page, they're going to be convicted. They have absolutely
[01:18:12.780 --> 01:18:21.420]  no doubt what's been going on. So all they have to do to fight back, all they have to do to stand up,
[01:18:21.500 --> 01:18:33.660]  all they have to do to make a stand is obey the law. And yet this seems to be a challenge.
[01:18:33.660 --> 01:18:42.540]  It's mind boggling to me. Obeying the law and getting more freedom is something that people,
[01:18:42.540 --> 01:18:48.460]  including the Libertarian Party leadership, does not want to discuss. It's mind boggling.
[01:18:49.100 --> 01:18:52.220]  You talk about, you know, we're at this point in the country's history.
[01:18:53.420 --> 01:18:58.140]  What point are we at when you can't get Americans to achieve their political ends
[01:18:58.140 --> 01:19:05.580]  by obeying the law? It's incredible. Right. So they've been Psyopt. They've been indoctrinated.
[01:19:05.580 --> 01:19:10.700]  They've been, you know, feared. Fear has been put on them, false evidence appearing real.
[01:19:10.700 --> 01:19:15.100]  And they're like in this matrix going, oh, and I don't want to have peer pressure. I'm a really
[01:19:15.100 --> 01:19:20.940]  good citizen. I pay my taxes. You know, it's like, what does that mean? What kind of taxes?
[01:19:22.140 --> 01:19:26.700]  Which is why everyone needs to read this book. Also, we need to remind people that who are the
[01:19:26.700 --> 01:19:32.860]  servants? Who are the servants? Am I the servant? Am I the slave to the government? Is that how this
[01:19:32.860 --> 01:19:40.460]  country was laid out? Hell no. The servants are those who are working for us, those government
[01:19:40.460 --> 01:19:45.020]  officials. But they've forgotten that and things have flipped. Right?
[01:19:45.020 --> 01:19:55.500]  Yeah. They're stealing the silverware. And they have convinced the masters that the masters will
[01:19:55.500 --> 01:20:03.180]  be in trouble if they stop letting them steal the silverware. It's insane. You know, I've had people
[01:20:03.180 --> 01:20:11.260]  working for me for decades on and off. And, you know, regrettably, sadly, I've had some instances
[01:20:11.260 --> 01:20:18.540]  where workers stole from me. I never took the perspective I should permit it.
[01:20:20.620 --> 01:20:28.460]  Every single one of them got sent down the road. But somehow, when it's the government coming in,
[01:20:29.100 --> 01:20:34.620]  euphemistically, sticking a gun in your face and saying, give me what the law does not demand.
[01:20:34.620 --> 01:20:42.380]  And it's done by trickery. And here, this book can show you how the scam is being run on you.
[01:20:42.380 --> 01:20:45.260]  And you can stop participating and safely walk away.
[01:20:45.260 --> 01:20:49.180]  And actually obey the law. You can choose to actually obey the real law.
[01:20:50.460 --> 01:20:56.780]  Right. Obey the law and safely walk away. And people are like, oh my God, no. What is wrong
[01:20:56.780 --> 01:21:04.460]  with people? Okay. So income tax. All right. Where does all the income tax go? All the income tax
[01:21:04.460 --> 01:21:11.260]  that's taken from people and it's their property and it's their inalienable right to keep that,
[01:21:11.260 --> 01:21:15.580]  right? It's their property. Where does all that go?
[01:21:17.260 --> 01:21:21.740]  Well, I had originally said a bit ago that the income tax was passed in the same session of
[01:21:21.740 --> 01:21:24.860]  Congress with the Federal Reserve Act because its purpose was to pay the interest on the income
[01:21:24.860 --> 01:21:30.140]  tax. Now, people might say, well, Dave, that's just your opinion. No, it's not just my opinion
[01:21:30.140 --> 01:21:33.660]  because Ronald Reagan empowered something which is euphemistically today called the
[01:21:33.660 --> 01:21:38.140]  Grace Commission. The chairman of WR Grace was the chairman. That's how it got the name of the Grace
[01:21:38.140 --> 01:21:47.100]  Commission. And Ronald Reagan posed 10 questions to this committee. And one of them was, what does
[01:21:47.100 --> 01:21:53.100]  the income tax pay for? And the Grace Commission's conclusion, which they reported back to the
[01:21:53.100 --> 01:22:01.500]  president, was that the income tax does not pay for any services that the U.S. taxpayer
[01:22:01.500 --> 01:22:10.060]  imagines it is used for, that 100% of the income tax collected by the Internal Revenue Service
[01:22:10.620 --> 01:22:18.460]  goes to pay the interest on the national debt. And not one penny, as you said, not one penny
[01:22:18.460 --> 01:22:25.100]  pays for any services or infrastructure that the citizens imagine it pays for from the income tax.
[01:22:26.380 --> 01:22:30.380]  There's the quote. And I think the Grace Commission was like, I don't know, 85, 86,
[01:22:30.380 --> 01:22:35.020]  something like that. So the income tax was passed in 1913. And I told you why they were passed,
[01:22:35.020 --> 01:22:38.620]  the income tax and the Federal Reserve Act were passed in the same session. And then,
[01:22:40.220 --> 01:22:47.260]  70 years later, the Grace Commission reports exactly the same thing. That's what the income
[01:22:47.260 --> 01:22:51.980]  tax is used for. So people who think, for instance, the income tax is paying for the military,
[01:22:51.980 --> 01:22:55.260]  so you've got people on the right, they would share that. Well, I'm going to keep paying my
[01:22:55.260 --> 01:23:00.460]  income tax because it pays for our fighting boys to go over and protect our freedom over in some
[01:23:00.460 --> 01:23:06.780]  land on the other side of the planet. Or you've got people on the left, I'm going to keep paying
[01:23:06.780 --> 01:23:15.580]  my income tax because we need to stop climate change. Whatever the rationale is, and none of
[01:23:15.580 --> 01:23:22.700]  that, not one single penny of the income tax pays for any of that. And the noose gets tighter
[01:23:22.700 --> 01:23:29.100]  and tighter and tighter and they keep taking more and more and more now. And let's just talk about
[01:23:29.100 --> 01:23:36.380]  before we go to what you talk about, where you explain where it does go towards in chapter 15.
[01:23:36.380 --> 01:23:44.220]  And the answer is before we go there. So the income tax that everyone is being wrongly and
[01:23:45.020 --> 01:23:51.260]  tricked into paying, declaring themselves to be liable because they don't fit under one of those
[01:23:51.260 --> 01:23:54.780]  three categories, the majority of the people, I'm sure there are some very few exceptions,
[01:23:55.580 --> 01:24:00.380]  but in any event goes towards paying the national debt. Well, these guys, we go through every year,
[01:24:00.380 --> 01:24:03.420]  oh my God, are they going to pass the national debt? Are we going to close down? Is government
[01:24:03.420 --> 01:24:10.300]  going to close down this bullshit, bullshit like bread and circus? And some booze along with that,
[01:24:10.300 --> 01:24:18.940]  I suppose. But it's like they take advantage of and they don't care about the budget. They'll go,
[01:24:18.940 --> 01:24:25.100]  oh my God, what waste, what waste just to pay off their buddies and the lobbyists and shit.
[01:24:25.100 --> 01:24:31.660]  Did anybody ask me that, for example, my money is going to go towards pork belly, whatever,
[01:24:31.660 --> 01:24:40.140]  or running tests on ketchup or different like crazy asinine things that could be
[01:24:40.220 --> 01:24:47.500]  involved in that debt where they're continuing to basically rape people from your property
[01:24:47.500 --> 01:24:56.620]  and trick you into giving it up for more insanity. Now you talk about, and this is what everybody
[01:24:56.620 --> 01:25:00.540]  thinks, and I was just, you know, the other day when we had not too long ago, the eclipse that
[01:25:00.540 --> 01:25:04.860]  everybody was talking about. And so I went to the library, I wanted to get some of those glasses,
[01:25:04.940 --> 01:25:12.220]  and there was a man from, I think he was Swedish. And he was like, oh no, yeah, we pay a lot in taxes,
[01:25:12.220 --> 01:25:17.180]  but we get a lot for our money in Sweden. And he goes, and you know, you got to pay the taxes for
[01:25:17.180 --> 01:25:22.380]  like here in the United States, you know, to help build the infrastructure and the roads and such.
[01:25:22.380 --> 01:25:27.260]  And so you talk about, I mean, I'm going to read from this, but I don't know if you want to say
[01:25:27.260 --> 01:25:37.500]  something before that? Before I read some? Okay. So here's three points you make here.
[01:25:38.140 --> 01:25:41.740]  If there is no, and this is what people say, they're all worried. They're like, oh my God,
[01:25:41.740 --> 01:25:47.980]  if there's no income tax, who will pay for the roads? Right? That's, okay, that's a psyop,
[01:25:47.980 --> 01:25:52.140]  right? I didn't even realize. I probably used to go, oh yeah, we have to keep paying for the roads
[01:25:52.140 --> 01:26:01.100]  and the infrastructure. Well, income tax does not pay for roads. Each gallon of gasoline or diesel
[01:26:01.100 --> 01:26:07.500]  you buy at the fuel pump has both federal and state motor fuel taxes added to the price. It
[01:26:07.500 --> 01:26:15.100]  is primarily these taxes that pay for highways and roads. Number one, shattering the myth.
[01:26:15.980 --> 01:26:22.060]  Number two, people say, oh my God, if there's no income tax, how will we pay for police and fire
[01:26:22.060 --> 01:26:29.260]  protection? Income tax does not pay for police and fire protection. Although the formula differs
[01:26:29.260 --> 01:26:34.780]  a bit from state to state, the general rule is that local property taxes pay for the police
[01:26:34.780 --> 01:26:44.220]  and fire protection. And number three, oh my God, schools will not have the needed money if there's
[01:26:44.620 --> 01:26:55.340]  no income tax. Income tax does not pay for schools. K-1 through K-12 education is paid for almost
[01:26:55.340 --> 01:27:08.380]  exclusively from local property taxes. Yep. Yeah. I was involved in a conference call. Somebody
[01:27:08.380 --> 01:27:13.180]  invited me several weeks ago to participate in a conference call to talk about the kind of things
[01:27:13.180 --> 01:27:18.700]  we're talking about today. And there was, I didn't expect this. I thought the people on the call
[01:27:19.980 --> 01:27:26.780]  were all there to learn the truth. And it turned out this one woman was not. And she referenced,
[01:27:26.780 --> 01:27:33.820]  as a matter of fact, this is why I recall it based on what you said. She said, well, if people
[01:27:33.820 --> 01:27:41.180]  stop paying the income tax, I think she was based in New York City. She said, New York City has
[01:27:41.180 --> 01:27:48.300]  1,117 parks. And if people stop paying their income tax, then no one's going to be able to
[01:27:48.300 --> 01:27:53.820]  maintain these parks or they're going to go to hell. No idea what she's talking about. But she
[01:27:53.820 --> 01:28:00.060]  was raging against what I was saying because she was concerned about parks, that income tax doesn't
[01:28:00.060 --> 01:28:06.220]  pay a penny towards. It's just fruit loop stuff. But one of these things that we need to understand,
[01:28:06.220 --> 01:28:10.780]  if something triggers us, like it did during the scandemic, everyone got triggered. If you didn't
[01:28:10.780 --> 01:28:15.900]  take the jab, you know? I mean, have you ever? If you were a good American, you would have.
[01:28:16.860 --> 01:28:22.780]  Right? All the psychological operations. Well, how about grandma? And everybody was like bragging.
[01:28:22.780 --> 01:28:27.820]  I remember I went over to a friend's house and she was on the phone with her friend. Oh yeah,
[01:28:27.820 --> 01:28:35.660]  I got mine. Did you get yours? And I'm thinking, what the fuck? Wow. It's gone crazy. It's insane.
[01:28:35.660 --> 01:28:39.980]  Because some of us happen to be wired differently and be able to see through the smoke and mirrors
[01:28:39.980 --> 01:28:45.500]  and the psychological operations. Well, one of the things, and this is totally, I mean, talk about
[01:28:45.500 --> 01:28:49.500]  shattering the myth. I just want to get down to the truth. I don't care. I want to get down to the
[01:28:49.500 --> 01:28:57.340]  truth. And I want to keep this country of what our forefathers gave their life for to give us
[01:28:57.340 --> 01:29:03.340]  these freedoms to bring here and establish this country, which of course there's lots of trickery
[01:29:03.340 --> 01:29:08.300]  going on, but there are a lot of people waking up, not just on the tax, income tax thing, which
[01:29:08.300 --> 01:29:14.620]  we're talking about on the tax, but on other points that I have some shows forthcoming that
[01:29:14.620 --> 01:29:22.300]  are going to blow your mind as well. Dr. Dave Champion. The SARS-CoV-2 event, in my experience
[01:29:22.300 --> 01:29:26.620]  and what I've seen, especially being the author of Income Tax Shattiness and Body Science, both of
[01:29:26.620 --> 01:29:32.220]  which dispel government and industry lies and tell the truth and set the record straight and set
[01:29:32.220 --> 01:29:36.940]  people on the path of greater health and more liberty and so forth. I can tell you that the
[01:29:36.940 --> 01:29:44.700]  SARS-CoV-2 event crippled the trust of many Americans for government and industry.
[01:29:45.340 --> 01:29:51.580]  And I haven't heard as much dialogue about things like the truth of the income tax
[01:29:52.300 --> 01:29:56.860]  since the government and industry shot itself in the foot during the SARS-CoV-2 event,
[01:29:56.860 --> 01:30:02.940]  repeatedly shot itself in the foot. Trust is at an all-time low for the government and industries.
[01:30:03.020 --> 01:30:07.500]  Oh, they don't give a shit about people. Do they know you? You know, we've had kids turn against
[01:30:07.500 --> 01:30:12.300]  their parents, for example, and I'm going to go get the job. I've never had one in my life,
[01:30:12.300 --> 01:30:15.980]  but I'm going to go get one because the government cares about me and I want to like,
[01:30:15.980 --> 01:30:21.500]  I want my friends to like, it's okay if I hang out with them because I mean what they did,
[01:30:22.060 --> 01:30:26.300]  right? And they don't give a shit about you. They just want to get this stuff in your system
[01:30:26.300 --> 01:30:33.340]  for very nefarious purposes. So you mentioned, and I just want people to understand like the
[01:30:33.340 --> 01:30:40.460]  things that have happened in our history, the trickery, you know, you've talked, you know,
[01:30:41.180 --> 01:30:49.580]  okay, one of the people that you mentioned, what's his name? General Butler Smedley?
[01:30:51.420 --> 01:30:53.180]  Smedley Butler. Smedley Butler.
[01:30:53.180 --> 01:30:55.820]  General, Marine Corps General Smedley Butler.
[01:30:55.820 --> 01:31:02.780]  Okay. So I'm going to read something, maybe not the whole thing, but just part of it,
[01:31:03.900 --> 01:31:08.780]  just so people understand the trickery and how they're taking money from us and they're spending
[01:31:08.780 --> 01:31:14.700]  it like sending it abroad or whatever, spending it on bullshit, you know, and they just can't
[01:31:14.700 --> 01:31:21.500]  seem to get enough. And I'm sorry, if you trusted your government, why is the child sex trafficking
[01:31:21.500 --> 01:31:26.220]  and pedophilia trade I believe has surpassed like the drug trade? Really? They can track every
[01:31:26.220 --> 01:31:33.260]  fucking thing you do, but they can't solve that problem. Who trusts quote unquote government?
[01:31:33.260 --> 01:31:39.660]  It's just that there are some good people everywhere. Okay, I get that. But the infiltration
[01:31:39.660 --> 01:31:48.460]  of corruption, evil corruption in all institutions on every level is at an all time high on this
[01:31:48.460 --> 01:31:54.620]  planet. And it's really important for people to start waking up. And this has been going on like
[01:31:54.620 --> 01:32:01.100]  all the wars are funded by both sides, you know, I'm sure your taxpayer money and, you know,
[01:32:02.220 --> 01:32:07.180]  leaders of countries that you've mentioned before, you know, that have been overthrown
[01:32:07.180 --> 01:32:13.820]  by, you know, whoever our CIA or whomever, because they didn't follow the narrative of,
[01:32:14.620 --> 01:32:20.780]  you know, the globalists here that want to control and have power over we the people
[01:32:21.340 --> 01:32:27.420]  on this planet, you know, like, for example, Qaddafi in Libya, Saddam Hussein in Iraq, I mean,
[01:32:27.420 --> 01:32:37.340]  it goes on and on. And you mentioned Operation Ajax, which was 1953 in Iran, you know, and how
[01:32:37.340 --> 01:32:43.100]  this kind of plays into the whole game of them completely and utterly controlling us, tricking
[01:32:43.100 --> 01:32:48.140]  us and taking all of our money. I'm going to read something by by Smedley. And I don't know
[01:32:48.140 --> 01:32:56.940]  if you want to say something before that. Don't go ahead. So Smedley Butler, who was a high Marine
[01:32:56.940 --> 01:33:04.780]  Corps general, he said, I spent 33 years and four months in active military service. And during that
[01:33:04.780 --> 01:33:10.620]  period, I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for big business for Wall Street and
[01:33:10.620 --> 01:33:16.940]  the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and
[01:33:16.940 --> 01:33:24.940]  especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent
[01:33:24.940 --> 01:33:31.580]  place for the national city bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a
[01:33:31.580 --> 01:33:38.060]  dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for
[01:33:38.060 --> 01:33:44.220]  international banking, House of Brown brothers in 1902 to 1912. I brought light to the Dominican
[01:33:44.220 --> 01:33:50.620]  Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit
[01:33:50.620 --> 01:33:59.260]  companies in 1903 and China in 1927. I helped see to it that standard oil went on its way,
[01:34:00.540 --> 01:34:07.420]  unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was
[01:34:07.420 --> 01:34:13.100]  to operate his racket in three districts. I operated three continents.
[01:34:17.740 --> 01:34:25.740]  So interesting thing about Smedley. After he retired, he started speaking vociferously on
[01:34:26.540 --> 01:34:32.620]  his beliefs about what he had done during his time as a Marine commander. And at some point,
[01:34:32.620 --> 01:34:39.500]  in order to attempt to discredit him, certain people started saying, don't listen to him.
[01:34:39.500 --> 01:34:48.540]  He's a commie. He speaks at communist meetings. And Butler's retort was, yes, every meeting,
[01:34:49.980 --> 01:34:56.300]  politics be damned. I don't care who I'm speaking to. I just want to make sure that if there's a
[01:34:56.300 --> 01:35:02.300]  meeting and there's Americans sitting there, I want to get my message out. But they attempted
[01:35:02.300 --> 01:35:07.500]  to discredit him by calling him a commie because he put that message out at communist meetings,
[01:35:07.500 --> 01:35:11.420]  as well as many, many other Republicans, Democrats, same thing.
[01:35:12.140 --> 01:35:16.780]  They always do that when somebody is speaking truth. They try to attack them.
[01:35:17.580 --> 01:35:25.260]  And now that we have AI, it's total insanity. For example, I was one of the first people to get
[01:35:25.260 --> 01:35:30.380]  kicked off YouTube. So please, people, I'm even being shadow banned on Rumble. I take that as a
[01:35:30.380 --> 01:35:37.660]  compliment. Obviously, I'm hitting the target. But people have to see the level of censorship now.
[01:35:39.500 --> 01:35:46.860]  I thought it's freedom of speech. There's no freedom of speech. Freedom of speech, as long
[01:35:46.860 --> 01:35:53.260]  as you're saying the narrative, as long as you're espousing the narrative that the deep state wants
[01:35:53.260 --> 01:36:01.820]  you to talk about, right? Otherwise. And so did you mention and do you feel, Dr. Dave Champion,
[01:36:01.820 --> 01:36:06.700]  that in the last couple of years during the scandemic, plandemic, not the first plandemic,
[01:36:06.700 --> 01:36:15.260]  but that people are waking up more? What do you see about what you're educating us on?
[01:36:15.260 --> 01:36:27.980]  Yes, I have never, I will say never. It has been a while since I have felt the openness to hearing
[01:36:27.980 --> 01:36:37.580]  about this that has been the case since probably about 2022 or 2021. In the early 2000s, leading
[01:36:37.580 --> 01:36:45.100]  up to the economic problem in 2008, when everything went south, in the early 2000s, what's called the
[01:36:45.100 --> 01:36:52.700]  tax honesty movement was raging. There was so much activity on so many fronts. It was wonderful. It
[01:36:52.700 --> 01:36:59.020]  was a great time to be a part of the tax honesty community. And then when the 2008 incident occurred
[01:36:59.020 --> 01:37:06.220]  in the economy tank, that evaporated. A very odd phenomenon. But I guess when people are busy
[01:37:06.220 --> 01:37:09.580]  trying to figure out how they're going to pay the mortgage and stay in their house and put a roof
[01:37:09.580 --> 01:37:14.540]  over their kids' heads, discussing the truth of the income tax ceases to be really important to
[01:37:14.540 --> 01:37:26.140]  them. But I would say since 2021-ish, I've started to sense that same sort of openness and excitement.
[01:37:26.140 --> 01:37:31.180]  And yes, tell us about this. We want to know. And people are now reaching out to me all the time and
[01:37:31.180 --> 01:37:36.140]  saying, I want you to know I spread this message everywhere I go. I see, for instance, on the
[01:37:36.140 --> 01:37:40.540]  website, I see somebody will purchase income tax shattering the mess. And then three months later,
[01:37:40.540 --> 01:37:45.500]  three more copies and a month later, four more copies. And then they'll send me an email and
[01:37:45.500 --> 01:37:49.900]  they'll say, hey, I've given this all my friends, all my family members, every American needs to
[01:37:49.900 --> 01:37:55.740]  know this. But I haven't seen that sort of enthusiasm in a while. Okay, that's, you know,
[01:37:55.740 --> 01:38:01.100]  unfortunately, the pendulum, like I said, how far can it swing before it has to go the other way,
[01:38:01.100 --> 01:38:05.580]  till people like and the noose is just tightened around their neck. It's like you go to the
[01:38:05.660 --> 01:38:10.940]  grocery store now. And what I used to get, say, five bags of groceries, I'm lucky if I get one
[01:38:10.940 --> 01:38:16.540]  for the same price, maybe one and a half. I mean, seriously, you know, and that's just one example,
[01:38:16.540 --> 01:38:20.220]  because that's an essential, right? We have to eat. That was just like bare essential.
[01:38:20.220 --> 01:38:25.420]  People are having to give up so much and like just really struggling. And that also is by design,
[01:38:25.420 --> 01:38:29.420]  because the more you have to just get on the hamster wheel and work to make money,
[01:38:29.420 --> 01:38:35.500]  you can't get educated. You don't have time to do this or to find out what's really going on or
[01:38:35.660 --> 01:38:41.260]  go down the rabbit hole, if you want to call it that. So everything throughout our history,
[01:38:41.260 --> 01:38:46.460]  for example, the Great Depression, I mean, it was all control. It was all, you know,
[01:38:46.460 --> 01:38:52.060]  bubble and bust. I mean, it was controlled by these guys who run the planet, and they do it,
[01:38:52.060 --> 01:38:58.860]  and they benefit from everything. And then probably, perhaps every war, but the majority
[01:38:58.860 --> 01:39:04.940]  of wars on the planet, they funded both sides, you know, divide and conquer, we need to get into
[01:39:04.940 --> 01:39:13.020]  Africa to get the minerals, you know, which is confessions of an economic hitman. You know,
[01:39:13.020 --> 01:39:17.900]  this guy was, I believe, a CIA operative. It's been a lot of years since I read the book. But
[01:39:17.900 --> 01:39:22.380]  that was his job was to go in and take advantage of people go, hey, we can help you out. We're
[01:39:22.380 --> 01:39:25.340]  going to help put an infrastructure in for you. We're going to build dams and everything. It's
[01:39:25.340 --> 01:39:31.740]  going to really help you to be prosperous. And, you know, it's going to be good times.
[01:39:31.740 --> 01:39:38.780]  But actually, what it is, is they're making them indebted and creating slaves, and they're
[01:39:38.780 --> 01:39:44.540]  raping their land and taking all the minerals. So this has been going on for too long on every
[01:39:44.540 --> 01:39:50.380]  level. Go ahead. I was going to say, I think Americans would be shocked. As a former special
[01:39:50.380 --> 01:39:56.380]  operator myself, I have many connections to that community. And I think people would be shocked,
[01:39:56.380 --> 01:40:03.820]  if not dismayed, to learn how many special operations troops are deployed in Africa today.
[01:40:03.820 --> 01:40:09.420]  It's appalling. Thousands and thousands and thousands of special operators.
[01:40:11.180 --> 01:40:13.340]  Wow. So you were in special ops for a while.
[01:40:14.620 --> 01:40:15.820]  Yeah. So Army Ranger.
[01:40:16.620 --> 01:40:17.120]  What's that?
[01:40:18.540 --> 01:40:19.580]  I was an Army Ranger.
[01:40:20.460 --> 01:40:25.260]  Oh, right. Right. So that's, yeah, considered special ops. So is there anything you-
[01:40:25.260 --> 01:40:27.340]  Part of the special ops community there.
[01:40:27.340 --> 01:40:30.220]  Anything you can share with us that's related to what we're talking about?
[01:40:31.980 --> 01:40:36.300]  Well, you know, it's interesting. When I was in, Reagan was president, and the
[01:40:37.740 --> 01:40:42.380]  primary theater for special operations was Central America. So as you were reading
[01:40:42.380 --> 01:40:47.820]  Svetlana Butler's statement about, you know, how he was cleaning up Nicaragua and El Salvador or
[01:40:47.820 --> 01:40:54.380]  whatnot for the corporate forces and entities that wanted to go in there, I couldn't help but
[01:40:54.380 --> 01:41:01.420]  feel a similarity that back in the early 80s, when I was young and dumb and didn't know any
[01:41:01.420 --> 01:41:07.660]  of the things that I know today, that it appeared the same exact agenda was operating in those
[01:41:07.660 --> 01:41:13.420]  countries under Ronald Reagan. And I'm not condemning him personally, because no president
[01:41:13.420 --> 01:41:17.340]  runs the country. That's a fallacy, I think, too many Americans buy into.
[01:41:18.860 --> 01:41:23.580]  The president is the chief executive of the executive branch, but the decisions are made by
[01:41:23.580 --> 01:41:26.860]  oftentimes people whose names we don't know aren't even members of government.
[01:41:27.420 --> 01:41:31.180]  Absolutely. I've heard in the past, like the president of the United States is like 10
[01:41:31.180 --> 01:41:35.420]  levels down from the person who's really in control. They're just fucking puppets,
[01:41:35.420 --> 01:41:37.020]  you know? That's why I think-
[01:41:37.020 --> 01:41:37.900]  It's all about the money.
[01:41:38.540 --> 01:41:46.780]  Yep, exactly. And the money, you know, right now, it's fiat money. And actually, fiat is an
[01:41:46.780 --> 01:41:54.460]  acronym, but I was looking it up again, and it comes from the word fieri, an Italian word or a
[01:41:54.460 --> 01:42:01.740]  Latin word, which is be done or made. That's what it means. Let it be done or be done or made. So
[01:42:01.740 --> 01:42:07.820]  the money that we have right now, it's not gold-backed, as we all know. You know,
[01:42:07.820 --> 01:42:13.740]  it's just all printed up. And you mentioned on one of your interviews, Dr. Dave Champion,
[01:42:14.460 --> 01:42:22.700]  a good point that there's so many trillions and billions and millions of American dollars
[01:42:23.260 --> 01:42:30.300]  by design. Boy, was that a master plan. That was pretty damn smart, right? Spread out throughout
[01:42:30.300 --> 01:42:35.660]  the globe because, you know, everyone's talking about at some point, the dollar's got to crash.
[01:42:35.660 --> 01:42:40.940]  We know that a fiat currency never usually lasts more than 100 years, right? In history. I mean,
[01:42:40.940 --> 01:42:51.020]  come on. So why don't you tell us a little bit about why you think, you know, why has it not
[01:42:51.020 --> 01:42:54.780]  crashed already? What's holding it up? A couple of reasons. First of all,
[01:42:55.420 --> 01:43:00.380]  no fiat currency in history has ever had the status of the world's reserve currency.
[01:43:00.380 --> 01:43:05.180]  No fiat currency in the history of the world has ever had something like the World Bank,
[01:43:05.180 --> 01:43:13.100]  which is basically an instrumentality of the United States government. And there's also,
[01:43:13.100 --> 01:43:21.660]  we live in a much more international world today. And so we're probably all aware of BRICS
[01:43:22.780 --> 01:43:27.100]  four nations that are trying to unseat the U.S. dollar as a world reserves currency.
[01:43:27.100 --> 01:43:31.740]  Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South America. Yes. South Africa, excuse me.
[01:43:32.700 --> 01:43:43.420]  South Africa. So that wasn't 11 years ago now. The government, the Treasury Department used to
[01:43:43.420 --> 01:43:47.580]  publish a report called the Volume of Money Report. And what it would talk about is how much
[01:43:48.140 --> 01:43:53.820]  the currency was being put out, both domestically and internationally, in volume of money.
[01:43:53.820 --> 01:43:59.100]  And all of a sudden, at one point, the Treasury Department announced a slew of different reports
[01:43:59.100 --> 01:44:03.180]  that they issue. Just one, the Volume of Money Report, was no longer going to be issued.
[01:44:03.820 --> 01:44:07.740]  And as soon as I read that, it was like ding, ding, ding, ding, the alarm bell went off.
[01:44:08.460 --> 01:44:15.660]  And I realized the reason they stopped making that report available to the public is they were
[01:44:15.660 --> 01:44:22.940]  intending to start shooting U.S. currency out of a fire hose at third world nations around the world.
[01:44:23.900 --> 01:44:34.380]  And the rationale behind that was, let's say you're a dictator from some small country in Africa,
[01:44:35.100 --> 01:44:42.860]  and you've got $3 million sitting in a Swiss bank account that you siphoned off from aid provided
[01:44:42.860 --> 01:44:46.140]  to your country by the United States government. And by the way, the United States government is
[01:44:46.140 --> 01:44:51.020]  aware that's how it works everywhere. They give these countries whatever the amount of money is,
[01:44:51.020 --> 01:44:55.740]  they recognize that usually someplace between 90% and 100% of that is going to end up in the
[01:44:55.740 --> 01:45:00.460]  bank account of the rulers of those nations. It's not going to be spent for the purpose that the
[01:45:00.460 --> 01:45:07.100]  American people are told that aid is going overseas. So this cat's got $3 million sitting
[01:45:07.100 --> 01:45:13.580]  in a bank account in Switzerland, ready for when he gets ousted or chooses to leave, he's going
[01:45:13.580 --> 01:45:17.900]  to have a really good life. And of course, he's got that $3 million invested, and he's making more
[01:45:17.900 --> 01:45:23.340]  and more money and so forth. So now along comes somebody who wants to
[01:45:24.940 --> 01:45:31.580]  get him involved in upending the dollar. Let's get rid of the dollar as a world's reserve currency.
[01:45:31.580 --> 01:45:36.940]  Let's make war on the dollar. We'll work with the yuan or the ruble, but let's kill the dollar
[01:45:36.940 --> 01:45:41.980]  because the United States government has been abusing its position that's very factual as the
[01:45:41.980 --> 01:45:45.660]  world's reserve currency. It allows the United States government to do a lot of things that
[01:45:45.660 --> 01:45:50.380]  economically would not be possible were it not for being in the world's reserve currency.
[01:45:51.020 --> 01:45:58.540]  So let's upend this. Let's trash the US dollar. Well, now this potentate, he's got to think,
[01:45:59.580 --> 01:46:10.300]  well, wait a second. If we do this and the dollar's value crashes 60%, I'm 60% more poor.
[01:46:11.180 --> 01:46:20.700]  And so when they stopped printing the volume of money report, it was for the purpose of obscuring
[01:46:21.660 --> 01:46:27.980]  the fact that they were just pumping money into foreign countries around the world
[01:46:28.540 --> 01:46:33.180]  so that no one, the decision makers, no one around the world would want to get on board
[01:46:33.180 --> 01:46:39.980]  devaluing the US dollar. Wow. And yeah, everybody had it. Everyone had a vested interest.
[01:46:41.260 --> 01:46:43.420]  Yeah. And I think you mentioned that it still works that way today.
[01:46:45.020 --> 01:46:52.380]  Wow. The US government stopped publishing the volume of money. What is it? What's it report?
[01:46:52.380 --> 01:46:59.980]  The volume of money, volume of money report. I mean, right there, right there. See? Hiding.
[01:46:59.980 --> 01:47:06.540]  I mean, it just blows my mind. Dave, I know there are a lot of people watching going,
[01:47:06.540 --> 01:47:11.180]  okay, well, I'm going to get the book and we'll have links everywhere. And you can go ahead and
[01:47:11.180 --> 01:47:16.540]  mention where they can order the book. That's where I got mine from your website. And also,
[01:47:16.540 --> 01:47:21.980]  I have to mention that I found you on Audible. You have some great, and I haven't even listened
[01:47:21.980 --> 01:47:25.260]  to all of them. Yeah, you're on Audible. Dr. Reality?
[01:47:25.260 --> 01:47:25.820]  Okay.
[01:47:25.820 --> 01:47:34.940]  Your show. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah. I know that it's on podcasts. No, I know that we're on
[01:47:34.940 --> 01:47:40.620]  like 15 different platforms, but I don't continually look at the list.
[01:47:40.620 --> 01:47:45.500]  Okay. Well, great job. And you have a great voice. And you're just so articulate and clear
[01:47:45.500 --> 01:47:50.940]  on this topic. And so anyway, you're on different platforms of people. And I know you mentioned
[01:47:50.940 --> 01:47:55.260]  that. Why don't you go ahead and mention where they can find you? And most importantly, where
[01:47:55.260 --> 01:47:58.940]  to get the book. And then after you explain that, people are going to want to know, well,
[01:47:58.940 --> 01:48:03.660]  what do I do? And how do I start? And how do I respond to people? And I know you can maybe
[01:48:03.660 --> 01:48:07.340]  just share a little bit, but go ahead, please. How can everyone find you and get your book?
[01:48:08.700 --> 01:48:16.700]  Okay. They can go to drreality.news. That's drreality.news. They can pick up a copy of
[01:48:16.700 --> 01:48:21.740]  Fingum Tach, Shattering the Mist, or Body Science. I sent you a copy of Body Science.
[01:48:21.740 --> 01:48:26.380]  I'll have you on in the future on that one. We'll be visiting again once you've read that,
[01:48:26.380 --> 01:48:30.540]  because it's sort of the same thing concerning human physiology as we've been discussing with
[01:48:30.540 --> 01:48:34.860]  the Income Tax. So I think you'll find that fascinating. So they can get the books there.
[01:48:34.860 --> 01:48:40.220]  If they want to follow me on Rumble, Rumble has an odd search engine problem. So if you search for
[01:48:40.220 --> 01:48:45.900]  just Dave Champion, I don't often come up, but if you search for Dave Champion PhD, boom, it comes
[01:48:45.900 --> 01:48:58.700]  up. On X, my handle is at drreality5. So you can follow me on X. I try and stick to just
[01:48:59.900 --> 01:49:04.940]  platforms that don't engage in censorship. So right now I'm just on Rumble and X,
[01:49:04.940 --> 01:49:09.980]  but again, if anybody wants to get ahold of me, there's a contact link on drreality.news,
[01:49:09.980 --> 01:49:17.180]  so don't hesitate. Awesome. Okay. So I know you can't answer it fully right now,
[01:49:18.300 --> 01:49:23.420]  but how about people who are like, okay, I know where I start is reading the book.
[01:49:23.420 --> 01:49:29.980]  And I've read the book, obviously, and I'm going to read the book again, but I'm still going to
[01:49:29.980 --> 01:49:43.180]  put the stuff to work here. So what can you tell people if they move forward and delve down into
[01:49:43.180 --> 01:49:51.100]  this? How do they respond to people who are trying to get them to sign, for example, W9s and such?
[01:49:52.220 --> 01:49:56.700]  Well, that's a bit ticklish, and I don't think that would be a whole other show.
[01:49:56.780 --> 01:50:00.220]  Got it. Yeah, that takes some finesse because
[01:50:01.260 --> 01:50:07.020]  the way I like to characterize it, and this is a terrible thing to say, it's like once you understand
[01:50:07.020 --> 01:50:14.060]  the truth of the income tax, it's like being the only sane person in an insane asylum. So obviously
[01:50:14.060 --> 01:50:20.780]  you can't walk up to people that are insane and just go, so look, you're insane. Here's what the
[01:50:20.780 --> 01:50:26.380]  real world is all about, and have them go, oh, okay. It doesn't work quite that easily.
[01:50:27.820 --> 01:50:35.180]  Yeah, that's a lengthy discussion, and really, it's not about the law. I've never heard anybody
[01:50:35.180 --> 01:50:39.820]  really get into a confrontation about the law. For instance, whoever gets in a conflict about
[01:50:39.820 --> 01:50:46.060]  two plus two equals four, right? Nobody. But it's more a conflict of
[01:50:46.060 --> 01:50:55.500]  people not wanting to be wrong, emotionalism, ego. That's where the conflicts come into,
[01:50:55.500 --> 01:50:59.420]  and fear, of course. That's where the conflicts come into play when people start,
[01:50:59.420 --> 01:51:03.020]  when a sane person, somebody who's written income tax, shadowed the myth, and knows the truth,
[01:51:03.020 --> 01:51:07.340]  goes to an insane person, somebody who's still functioning under the brainwashing,
[01:51:07.340 --> 01:51:14.860]  and says, hey, man, I didn't know anything about it. I do now, and it's really a shocking story.
[01:51:15.260 --> 01:51:18.700]  The bottom line is, the punch line is, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to do that
[01:51:18.700 --> 01:51:24.940]  anymore. Then the other person had never... What was that question I've asked people for 30 years?
[01:51:24.940 --> 01:51:30.860]  How much tax law have you actually read? The answer is zero. Okay. So having read zero,
[01:51:30.860 --> 01:51:35.020]  they're obviously not responding from intellect. They're not responding from experience. They're
[01:51:35.020 --> 01:51:44.620]  not responding from knowledge. They're responding from emotionalism. That's why this would be a very,
[01:51:44.700 --> 01:51:48.700]  very long, drawn out subject, because we're not talking about the law. We're not talking about
[01:51:48.700 --> 01:51:57.180]  two plus two equals four. We're talking about managing egos, arrogance, fear, and that's a
[01:51:57.180 --> 01:52:03.660]  whole other discussion. Right. I would just say that it's really everyone's responsibility,
[01:52:03.660 --> 01:52:08.380]  if you care about your freedoms and you care about this country, to at least start off reading this
[01:52:08.380 --> 01:52:13.340]  book, because I don't know of anyone who's dug this deep down. I know you've mentioned in other
[01:52:13.420 --> 01:52:20.380]  interviews, Dave, that you have gone to special libraries with a group of people and spent...
[01:52:22.060 --> 01:52:30.540]  I mean, I can't fathom how much time digging down and reading these statutes and different laws.
[01:52:32.380 --> 01:52:38.220]  Yeah. Back in the research days before this was published, I lived in Southern California,
[01:52:38.220 --> 01:52:44.460]  and oftentimes I would run a 15-passenger van. All of us researchers would meet at a particular
[01:52:44.460 --> 01:52:50.460]  location. We'd all get in the van, then I would hand out assignments. This was not arbitrary. It
[01:52:50.460 --> 01:52:56.620]  was all... We had a goal. We were trying to achieve this, so everybody had their constituent parts,
[01:52:57.500 --> 01:53:01.660]  and we would all go to the law library, and we'd spend six, seven, eight hours down the law library
[01:53:01.660 --> 01:53:06.780]  pulling all the pieces that we needed together. Then a smaller group of us, two or three of us,
[01:53:06.780 --> 01:53:13.740]  we'd start culling through all of the research productivity from that visit, and then we'd
[01:53:13.740 --> 01:53:18.940]  exclude the things that were not pertinent or relevant, and then we slowly, slowly, slowly
[01:53:18.940 --> 01:53:23.180]  accumulated what you found in Income Tax Shattering the Mist, which I often describe as
[01:53:24.700 --> 01:53:28.060]  mountains and mountains of irrefutable evidence.
[01:53:30.540 --> 01:53:34.380]  Unbelievable. This is what they should be teaching in the schools, okay?
[01:53:35.340 --> 01:53:36.140]  100%.
[01:53:36.140 --> 01:53:41.420]  And I'm going to say in the future, in the near future, the whole education system,
[01:53:41.420 --> 01:53:47.100]  indoctrination system that the Rockefellers created, I mean, come on, it's like to control
[01:53:47.100 --> 01:53:53.100]  everybody and make us little lemmings and puppets and sheep and robots, really.
[01:53:53.740 --> 01:53:55.580]  Successful, though. It has been successful.
[01:53:56.540 --> 01:54:00.380]  Unbelievable. This is the kind of thing we need to have in the school system.
[01:54:00.460 --> 01:54:04.060]  I'm going to let you, Dr. Dave Champion, if you want to say anything to our listeners
[01:54:04.060 --> 01:54:08.220]  in closing today, and then I'm going to ask you if you stay after just like two extra minutes,
[01:54:08.220 --> 01:54:11.980]  we're going to cover a little something for the locals, community supporters.
[01:54:14.140 --> 01:54:19.100]  I would like to make a closing statement. I've been at this a long time, 30 years,
[01:54:20.300 --> 01:54:27.020]  and there's been ups and downs, and it was my love of liberty that caused me to write Income
[01:54:27.020 --> 01:54:30.380]  Tax Shattering the Ministry. When I realized that the government was knowingly, willfully,
[01:54:30.380 --> 01:54:35.820]  and intentionally misleading an entire nation in order to, again, knowingly, willfully,
[01:54:35.820 --> 01:54:40.940]  and intentionally commit the largest financial crime in history, I could not remain silent.
[01:54:41.820 --> 01:54:46.220]  That was also my motivation for writing Body Science. I could not remain silent.
[01:54:47.980 --> 01:54:54.700]  And that brings me to your audience. Nobody listens to you, Sherry, unless they want to
[01:54:54.700 --> 01:55:03.420]  know the truth. They want more liberty. They want to know. And so I would like to thank your audience
[01:55:03.420 --> 01:55:11.340]  because in today's America, people who actually feel passionate about liberty, who feel passionately
[01:55:11.340 --> 01:55:17.420]  about truth, who want to know, as opposed to just, don't bother me. I'm watching television,
[01:55:17.420 --> 01:55:24.220]  or I'm playing a video game. The people who actually want to know that they're a special breed,
[01:55:24.700 --> 01:55:33.180]  and I don't imagine anybody watches you unless they're that breed. And they have to be valued
[01:55:33.180 --> 01:55:39.580]  and appreciated. And so I'd like to say thank you to all of you who took your time to tune in today
[01:55:39.580 --> 01:55:44.060]  because you are the kind of people who want to know the truth. Thank you for being out there,
[01:55:44.060 --> 01:55:50.540]  and hopefully you can share the truth with others and your passion for liberty. So
[01:55:51.100 --> 01:55:57.100]  maybe we can keep the ball rolling. Thank you so much, Dr. Dave Champion. I'm going to have you
[01:55:57.100 --> 01:56:01.020]  on again, and I'm going to have all the links below so people can grab your book and we can
[01:56:01.020 --> 01:56:07.340]  start there. And we're all connecting, okay? We're all here to support each other and help and educate
[01:56:07.340 --> 01:56:13.020]  everyone. So don't feel like the Lone Ranger out there, okay? People are waking up and people are
[01:56:13.020 --> 01:56:21.660]  joining together. So I just want everyone, I know you enjoyed the show today. Please share it far
[01:56:21.660 --> 01:56:30.380]  and wide, and make sure to subscribe and follow. And most importantly, keep it tuned because you
[01:56:30.380 --> 01:56:40.860]  have a right to know.