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[00:00.560 --> 00:02.600]  On December 12th, 2024,
[00:02.600 --> 00:05.120]  I was privileged to be interviewed by Chris Moffat
[00:05.120 --> 00:07.660]  on the Men on a Mission podcast
[00:07.660 --> 00:10.060]  as part of the Unplugged Alpha YouTube channel.
[00:11.240 --> 00:13.000]  It was glorious.
[00:13.000 --> 00:15.200]  Chris is an excellent host who asks questions
[00:15.200 --> 00:18.740]  that bring forth the information the audience wants to hear.
[00:18.740 --> 00:20.720]  This was my second guest appearance with Chris,
[00:20.720 --> 00:24.640]  so that gave us an opportunity to dig a little deeper.
[00:24.640 --> 00:26.100]  One of the many things we discussed
[00:26.100 --> 00:28.540]  was a 2024 Supreme Court decision
[00:28.540 --> 00:31.340]  in which the court made clear that ordinary Americans
[00:31.340 --> 00:34.340]  earning their own domestic income in a state of the union
[00:34.340 --> 00:37.900]  do not owe income tax and never have.
[00:37.900 --> 00:40.820]  A quick comment about the special offers on my books
[00:40.820 --> 00:42.780]  I discuss at the end.
[00:42.780 --> 00:46.240]  If you're watching this after Christmas 2024,
[00:46.240 --> 00:49.140]  obviously the Christmas special is over.
[00:49.140 --> 00:51.620]  However, the free shipping special
[00:51.620 --> 00:53.700]  will likely be running for quite some time,
[00:53.700 --> 00:55.280]  so you can take advantage of that.
[00:55.280 --> 00:58.380]  Sit back, relax, and enjoy an entertaining interview
[00:58.380 --> 01:02.680]  from which you will learn incredibly important information.
[01:04.160 --> 01:06.300]  Guys, welcome back to another episode
[01:06.300 --> 01:09.180]  of Moff's Men on a Mission.
[01:09.180 --> 01:12.540]  This is episode three.
[01:12.540 --> 01:14.740]  Really excited about the guest we have on today.
[01:14.740 --> 01:15.920]  I've talked to Dave before.
[01:15.920 --> 01:17.540]  I had him on a Moffat's Hours episode,
[01:17.540 --> 01:21.460]  I wanna say maybe six or eight months ago.
[01:21.460 --> 01:22.400]  Was really great.
[01:22.400 --> 01:24.080]  You got a lot of great feedback,
[01:24.080 --> 01:26.920]  and there's been some recent changes
[01:26.960 --> 01:28.920]  and a lot of questions that have been submitted to me
[01:28.920 --> 01:31.520]  about the federal income tax
[01:31.520 --> 01:34.120]  when it comes to things like capital gains and crypto,
[01:34.120 --> 01:38.120]  when it comes to filing as a W-2 or a 1099,
[01:38.120 --> 01:40.560]  and just who the federal income tax,
[01:40.560 --> 01:43.080]  if you are a United States citizen,
[01:43.080 --> 01:45.640]  is applicable to and who it's not.
[01:45.640 --> 01:49.120]  So it's gonna be a little bit different this time around.
[01:49.120 --> 01:51.600]  Just so you guys know, the chat lines are open
[01:51.600 --> 01:53.180]  or the call-in lines are open.
[01:53.180 --> 01:56.400]  We're gonna probably go for maybe an hour or so,
[01:57.080 --> 01:59.120]  go through some of the questions that I have for Dave
[01:59.120 --> 02:01.840]  that has been submitted previously or that I just had
[02:01.840 --> 02:03.580]  that I wanted him to double down on,
[02:03.580 --> 02:05.480]  and then we'll open up the phone lines.
[02:05.480 --> 02:07.960]  Guys can come on stage and they can ask him questions
[02:07.960 --> 02:10.640]  and get some one-on-one advice
[02:10.640 --> 02:12.660]  or just kinda try to poke holes in the argument
[02:12.660 --> 02:14.200]  and say, hey, what about this, what about that,
[02:14.200 --> 02:17.620]  which is a common response to some of the information
[02:17.620 --> 02:18.820]  that he puts out.
[02:18.820 --> 02:21.240]  If you can't call in for whatever reason,
[02:21.240 --> 02:22.880]  feel free to submit a super chat.
[02:22.880 --> 02:25.300]  We'll hold all of those to the Q&A as well.
[02:25.300 --> 02:27.980]  So priority is gonna go to call-ins
[02:27.980 --> 02:29.140]  and then to the chats after.
[02:29.140 --> 02:33.180]  So hopefully you guys can take some time today and call in.
[02:33.180 --> 02:34.460]  But make sure you're following the channel,
[02:34.460 --> 02:38.620]  like, subscribe, and I'll keep bringing on cool guests
[02:38.620 --> 02:39.760]  that have things to say
[02:39.760 --> 02:41.060]  and that are putting a dent in the universe.
[02:41.060 --> 02:44.220]  So without further ado, I'm gonna bring Dave up on stage.
[02:44.220 --> 02:45.060]  Dave, welcome to the show.
[02:45.060 --> 02:46.700]  How are you, my friend?
[02:46.700 --> 02:48.760]  I'm absolutely fantastic.
[02:48.760 --> 02:50.180]  Thanks for having me on.
[02:50.180 --> 02:51.180]  Yeah, absolutely.
[02:51.180 --> 02:53.320]  I'm really excited about this.
[02:53.320 --> 02:55.100]  So just for the people that may have not seen
[02:55.100 --> 02:58.820]  the previous episode or are relatively new to the channel,
[02:58.820 --> 03:00.180]  just let's do a quick intro.
[03:00.180 --> 03:04.860]  Talk about your background and sort of how you got started,
[03:04.860 --> 03:07.860]  sort of how you sort of came across the information
[03:07.860 --> 03:10.020]  when you started going through some of the legalities
[03:10.020 --> 03:12.860]  of the federal income tax and kind of where you are now.
[03:14.700 --> 03:18.140]  Okay, let's see.
[03:18.140 --> 03:19.180]  Coming out of adolescence,
[03:19.180 --> 03:22.060]  I joined the United States Army, became an Army Ranger.
[03:22.060 --> 03:23.380]  When I got out of the military,
[03:23.380 --> 03:26.660]  I went into law enforcement for a number of years,
[03:26.660 --> 03:29.380]  left law enforcement, remained a firearms tactics
[03:29.380 --> 03:32.620]  and use of force instructor for the next 30 years after that.
[03:35.700 --> 03:37.860]  I owned several businesses of my own,
[03:37.860 --> 03:44.780]  and owning those businesses is what started me down the path
[03:44.780 --> 03:46.020]  of looking at the income tax.
[03:46.020 --> 03:50.780]  And the reason for that was I went into my bank,
[03:51.180 --> 03:54.140]  talking probably 35 years ago.
[03:54.140 --> 03:57.620]  And the teller, when I walked, we knew each other well.
[03:57.620 --> 03:59.900]  And she started literally crying
[03:59.900 --> 04:01.500]  when I walked up to the window.
[04:01.500 --> 04:04.820]  I had to do it, I'm so sorry.
[04:04.820 --> 04:06.420]  I had to do what?
[04:06.420 --> 04:11.180]  They'd given $32,000 from my payroll account to the IRS.
[04:11.180 --> 04:13.580]  And I didn't know anything about the IRS at that time.
[04:13.580 --> 04:15.460]  I had an accountant on retainer.
[04:16.220 --> 04:20.900]  And so when you have an accountant on retainer
[04:20.900 --> 04:22.620]  taking care of that side of your business
[04:22.620 --> 04:27.300]  and you're doing what you do, it was really a wake up call.
[04:27.300 --> 04:29.740]  And so I was at dinner a couple of nights later
[04:29.740 --> 04:31.180]  with a couple of buddies of mine,
[04:31.180 --> 04:34.300]  and I was telling them what had happened.
[04:34.300 --> 04:38.100]  And they started laughing.
[04:38.100 --> 04:40.220]  And I said, you know, I really don't think laughter
[04:40.220 --> 04:41.780]  is the appropriate response to this.
[04:41.780 --> 04:45.140]  And they said, you would laugh if you knew what we knew.
[04:45.660 --> 04:48.780]  I was like, tell me because I'm ready for some laughter here.
[04:48.780 --> 04:52.420]  So they shared a bit with me that night and then they stopped.
[04:52.420 --> 04:53.940]  And they said, we're not gonna tell you anything more
[04:53.940 --> 04:55.620]  because we've told so many people
[04:55.620 --> 04:57.700]  and nobody listens and nobody cares.
[04:57.700 --> 05:01.220]  You buy this book and this book and you read them
[05:01.220 --> 05:03.900]  and then come back to us and we'll talk to you.
[05:03.900 --> 05:06.700]  Okay, the next day, right, this was pre-internet, right?
[05:06.700 --> 05:09.300]  The next day I jumped on the 800 numbers to these companies
[05:09.300 --> 05:12.260]  and ordered their books and started reading through them.
[05:12.260 --> 05:16.420]  And I think most pointedly,
[05:17.380 --> 05:18.900]  because of my time in law enforcement,
[05:18.900 --> 05:21.660]  I understood that if I wanna come take your property
[05:21.660 --> 05:25.420]  as an example, right, I have to have a Morris.
[05:27.780 --> 05:30.100]  But yet it seemed that the government was free
[05:30.100 --> 05:33.380]  to take $32,000, which back then was a lot of money, right?
[05:33.380 --> 05:36.020]  To take $32,000 out of my payroll account
[05:37.900 --> 05:39.620]  with no legal process.
[05:39.620 --> 05:43.460]  Some bureaucrat, some low-level employee,
[05:43.460 --> 05:45.340]  not even to the level of bureaucrat,
[05:45.340 --> 05:48.060]  some low-level employee pulled a form out of their desk door,
[05:48.060 --> 05:49.940]  signed their name, walked down the hall,
[05:49.940 --> 05:52.180]  got their supervisor to countersign it,
[05:52.180 --> 05:54.340]  ripped off the cover sheet, mailed it to the bank
[05:54.340 --> 05:57.060]  and the bank gave them my property.
[05:57.060 --> 05:59.180]  It was like, okay, so because I had read
[05:59.180 --> 06:00.340]  the constitution many times,
[06:00.340 --> 06:04.500]  I knew that there was no income tax exception
[06:04.500 --> 06:06.340]  to the Fourth Amendment.
[06:06.340 --> 06:11.340]  And yet, with no legal due process, my money was gone.
[06:12.220 --> 06:14.620]  So I knew something was amiss and I didn't know what it was.
[06:14.620 --> 06:17.100]  But once I knew something was amiss,
[06:17.100 --> 06:19.740]  I wanted to understand what it was.
[06:19.740 --> 06:24.340]  And here we are almost 32 years later
[06:24.340 --> 06:25.780]  talking about the income tax.
[06:27.980 --> 06:30.860]  So you really started out knowing the constitution,
[06:30.860 --> 06:32.540]  I mean, most people don't read the constitution,
[06:32.540 --> 06:33.380]  especially for fun,
[06:33.380 --> 06:34.860]  but you had to do it through law enforcement.
[06:34.860 --> 06:35.700]  You have to swear to it
[06:35.700 --> 06:36.860]  that you're gonna abide the uphold
[06:36.860 --> 06:38.860]  the constitution of the United States.
[06:40.180 --> 06:44.140]  So there's a portion of that that is the,
[06:44.140 --> 06:46.380]  well, I answered this question plainly.
[06:47.780 --> 06:50.900]  Are you saying there's no law written in the constitution
[06:50.900 --> 06:55.220]  that dictates who the income tax is imposed upon
[06:55.220 --> 06:57.980]  or that says that the vast majority
[06:57.980 --> 07:02.460]  or 99% of US citizens, Americans are on the hook
[07:02.460 --> 07:05.500]  to pay federal income tax on their income every year?
[07:06.700 --> 07:10.260]  I think the way I'd like to characterize it is this,
[07:10.260 --> 07:15.260]  that the law does very specifically dictate
[07:17.540 --> 07:19.420]  who the tax is imposed upon,
[07:19.420 --> 07:21.580]  who the tax is to be collected upon.
[07:21.580 --> 07:23.540]  And in certain circumstances,
[07:23.540 --> 07:26.100]  who has to withhold that tax from the people
[07:26.100 --> 07:28.260]  upon whom the tax has been imposed.
[07:28.260 --> 07:30.500]  But here's the thing,
[07:31.940 --> 07:34.620]  the tax has been imposed.
[07:34.620 --> 07:37.340]  If we just talk about society generally, right?
[07:37.340 --> 07:38.780]  The tax has been imposed
[07:38.780 --> 07:42.420]  on like this little tiny, tiny percentage of people.
[07:43.460 --> 07:46.820]  And yet the public narrative is,
[07:46.820 --> 07:50.700]  everybody owes income tax when the truth is,
[07:50.700 --> 07:52.140]  and let me say this plainly,
[07:52.140 --> 07:55.140]  this is what the law doesn't say
[07:55.140 --> 07:57.460]  who the tax does not apply to,
[07:57.460 --> 07:59.380]  law doesn't operate that way, right?
[07:59.380 --> 08:00.900]  So as I always say,
[08:00.900 --> 08:03.660]  I'm arguably the most knowledgeable person in the country
[08:03.660 --> 08:05.860]  about whom the income tax has been imposed
[08:05.860 --> 08:08.020]  and by association who it is not.
[08:08.020 --> 08:09.020]  Does that make sense?
[08:09.020 --> 08:14.020]  Okay, so a very accurate legal statement would be,
[08:16.580 --> 08:20.580]  if you're an American citizen or a legal resident
[08:20.580 --> 08:23.460]  living and working in one of the states in the union,
[08:23.460 --> 08:25.620]  earning your own domestic income,
[08:25.620 --> 08:30.460]  there is no law at all that requires you
[08:30.540 --> 08:32.220]  to have any withholding done,
[08:32.220 --> 08:36.860]  to file 1040s and to pay the government one red cent,
[08:36.860 --> 08:38.100]  none, zero.
[08:40.940 --> 08:44.820]  So who, if that's the case and if that is true,
[08:44.820 --> 08:47.780]  who is the income tax actually imposed upon?
[08:47.780 --> 08:50.540]  Who is the small, small sliver of,
[08:50.540 --> 08:51.460]  I won't even say Americans,
[08:51.460 --> 08:52.860]  but people that are, because I know,
[08:52.860 --> 08:54.100]  I kind of know the answer,
[08:54.100 --> 08:56.220]  but what are the classifications
[08:56.220 --> 08:59.220]  or the categories of folks that are on the hook,
[08:59.940 --> 09:02.180]  that are liable to pay income tax in the US?
[09:03.260 --> 09:07.340]  Okay, so according to US law,
[09:07.340 --> 09:08.660]  and I wanna keep stressing this
[09:08.660 --> 09:10.260]  because it's not me saying it,
[09:10.260 --> 09:12.300]  it's Congress saying it in a statute,
[09:12.300 --> 09:15.060]  it's the secretary of the treasury saying it
[09:15.060 --> 09:17.340]  in his regulation, so it's not me.
[09:17.340 --> 09:18.540]  I'm just sharing,
[09:18.540 --> 09:20.580]  because people don't read any of those things, right?
[09:20.580 --> 09:25.300]  So I'm just sharing what the law says, okay.
[09:25.300 --> 09:27.940]  The number one category, there's three,
[09:27.940 --> 09:29.260]  number one category upon whom
[09:29.260 --> 09:30.900]  Congress is opposing income tax.
[09:31.860 --> 09:36.140]  Non-resident aliens with US source income.
[09:36.140 --> 09:40.900]  Number two, foreign corporations with US source income.
[09:41.860 --> 09:45.540]  And number three, US citizens residing abroad
[09:45.540 --> 09:47.980]  with foreign earned income,
[09:47.980 --> 09:51.700]  which is even more narrow than it sounds.
[09:51.700 --> 09:53.700]  And for the purpose of this call,
[09:53.700 --> 09:57.180]  let's not talk about that because it may involve one,
[09:57.340 --> 09:59.500]  thousands of 1% of Americans,
[09:59.500 --> 10:01.420]  it's not worth taking our time with,
[10:01.420 --> 10:03.020]  and it's very sort of convoluted.
[10:03.020 --> 10:05.700]  So for the purpose of today's call,
[10:05.700 --> 10:08.260]  the 99.9% of the people who are listening,
[10:08.260 --> 10:11.260]  who fit that profile, which is an American citizen
[10:11.260 --> 10:13.060]  living and working in one of the states of the union,
[10:13.060 --> 10:15.140]  earning their own domestic source income,
[10:15.140 --> 10:16.980]  for the purpose of those people,
[10:16.980 --> 10:19.060]  we can simply say there are two classes upon whom
[10:19.060 --> 10:20.860]  Congress has imposed the income tax,
[10:20.860 --> 10:23.140]  non-resident aliens with US source income
[10:23.140 --> 10:25.900]  and foreign corporations with US source income.
[10:25.940 --> 10:26.980]  And moving forward,
[10:26.980 --> 10:28.540]  so you and I don't have to keep repeating that,
[10:28.540 --> 10:31.660]  let's just refer to them by the shorter term, foreign person.
[10:31.660 --> 10:34.260]  So foreign persons with US source income,
[10:34.260 --> 10:37.500]  that's upon whom Congress has imposed the income tax.
[10:37.500 --> 10:38.780]  So for layman's terms,
[10:38.780 --> 10:41.820]  essentially you are a non-resident alien,
[10:41.820 --> 10:43.340]  or so you were essentially,
[10:43.340 --> 10:45.900]  now, if you're a resident alien,
[10:45.900 --> 10:49.740]  let's say you have a green card, does that change things?
[10:49.740 --> 10:53.420]  I mean, so non-resident alien meaning,
[10:53.420 --> 10:56.020]  I don't have a right to kind of be here and work in the US.
[10:56.020 --> 10:58.020]  I'm essentially a foreign national,
[10:58.020 --> 11:00.300]  but I'm working for some US company
[11:00.300 --> 11:02.700]  that's paying me under the table, essentially.
[11:02.700 --> 11:04.180]  I mean, it doesn't sound like it's legal, right?
[11:04.180 --> 11:05.500]  So how is a non-resident alien
[11:05.500 --> 11:07.260]  even getting paid by a US company?
[11:08.140 --> 11:09.460]  Okay.
[11:09.460 --> 11:12.180]  That means somebody who is in this country,
[11:12.180 --> 11:14.660]  according to the tax code, not me,
[11:14.660 --> 11:19.140]  who is in this country 181 days or less,
[11:19.140 --> 11:20.540]  that's a non-resident alien.
[11:21.500 --> 11:24.820]  If a person is a legally admitted resident alien,
[11:24.820 --> 11:27.500]  what a lot of people refer to as green card holders,
[11:27.500 --> 11:30.740]  the same rules apply to them as apply to you and me.
[11:31.900 --> 11:33.860]  Understood. Okay.
[11:33.860 --> 11:36.580]  The second one being corporations
[11:36.580 --> 11:38.300]  that are based outside of the US,
[11:38.300 --> 11:40.660]  but are getting US source income.
[11:40.660 --> 11:42.780]  So is there an example that you can think of
[11:42.780 --> 11:45.980]  or something on the top of your head where that would apply?
[11:45.980 --> 11:47.420]  Sure.
[11:47.420 --> 11:51.380]  Let's say there's a corporation in Europe
[11:51.380 --> 11:53.340]  and they want to invest in Apple
[11:53.340 --> 11:55.260]  just to increase their bottom line, right?
[11:55.260 --> 11:57.140]  So they want the share values,
[11:57.140 --> 11:58.380]  they anticipate they're gonna increase,
[11:58.380 --> 11:59.500]  they want the dividends.
[11:59.500 --> 12:02.020]  So they reach out to a US brokerage house
[12:02.020 --> 12:03.260]  and they open a brokerage account
[12:03.260 --> 12:05.340]  and they direct the brokerage company to invest,
[12:05.340 --> 12:08.380]  we'll call it a million dollars for the sake of simplicity,
[12:08.380 --> 12:11.740]  to invest a million dollars in Apple shares.
[12:11.740 --> 12:14.220]  And so the Apple shares appreciate,
[12:14.220 --> 12:16.260]  which is not immediately relevant to income tax,
[12:16.260 --> 12:19.460]  but they are paid dividends, which is subject,
[12:19.460 --> 12:21.740]  which is immediately relevant to income tax.
[12:21.740 --> 12:25.780]  And then they, that foreign corporation,
[12:25.780 --> 12:29.060]  owes US income tax.
[12:29.060 --> 12:31.540]  Now, because we're talking about the brokerage house,
[12:31.540 --> 12:33.500]  this brings up, we talked about, again,
[12:33.500 --> 12:34.900]  I'm gonna limit it to two classes
[12:34.900 --> 12:36.700]  for the purpose of today.
[12:36.700 --> 12:37.740]  We talked about the two classes
[12:37.740 --> 12:39.180]  upon whom the income tax had been imposed.
[12:39.180 --> 12:43.100]  So in this particular scenario,
[12:43.100 --> 12:45.140]  let's say the corporation in Europe,
[12:45.180 --> 12:47.340]  let's call it Renault from France, right?
[12:47.340 --> 12:51.500]  So before the dividends paid by Apple,
[12:51.500 --> 12:52.940]  they go to the brokerage first of all,
[12:52.940 --> 12:54.780]  they go to the brokerage again.
[12:54.780 --> 12:59.060]  Before the brokerage firm pays those dividends over to Renault,
[13:00.820 --> 13:03.500]  they have to withhold the US income tax
[13:03.500 --> 13:05.380]  because as you can imagine,
[13:05.380 --> 13:07.180]  once the money was out of the United States
[13:07.180 --> 13:10.700]  and sitting in Renault's French bank account,
[13:10.700 --> 13:13.980]  they would not be disposed to pay the US income tax.
[13:13.980 --> 13:15.020]  They've already got their money,
[13:15.860 --> 13:18.140]  they're outside US jurisdiction, why would they?
[13:18.140 --> 13:20.540]  So the way US tax law works
[13:20.540 --> 13:24.420]  is anytime that money is going to a foreign person
[13:24.420 --> 13:26.780]  that is subject to the income tax,
[13:26.780 --> 13:29.660]  if it involves what they call a domestic agent,
[13:29.660 --> 13:33.780]  the domestic agent is required to deduct
[13:33.780 --> 13:36.700]  and to withhold the US income tax
[13:36.700 --> 13:40.020]  and then send the balance on to the foreign person.
[13:41.020 --> 13:45.020]  Okay, this stuff gets complicated quick, huh?
[13:45.900 --> 13:48.420]  Okay, I understand we want to talk
[13:48.420 --> 13:49.340]  about the first two classes.
[13:49.340 --> 13:53.260]  I will say what I've seen remote work
[13:53.260 --> 13:56.180]  and especially there's this whole idea
[13:56.180 --> 14:00.700]  of like the expat movement in the colloquialism
[14:00.700 --> 14:02.940]  and some of the circles we run is like passport bros.
[14:02.940 --> 14:04.220]  Now, usually that involves,
[14:04.220 --> 14:06.180]  hey, we don't want to stick around in the US,
[14:06.180 --> 14:08.460]  we'd rather go overseas and go to Thailand or Bali
[14:08.740 --> 14:12.540]  or something where women are more feminine,
[14:12.540 --> 14:13.860]  regardless, whatever it might be,
[14:13.860 --> 14:16.780]  but somebody that doesn't renounce their US citizenship
[14:16.780 --> 14:18.860]  and goes overseas somewhere,
[14:18.860 --> 14:21.260]  if they are making money,
[14:21.260 --> 14:22.300]  let's say they open a business,
[14:22.300 --> 14:25.100]  they open a coffee shop or a tattoo parlor somewhere,
[14:25.100 --> 14:27.980]  they're receiving foreign income,
[14:27.980 --> 14:30.580]  they would still be technically on the hook
[14:30.580 --> 14:32.980]  to pay US income tax, do I have that right?
[14:35.140 --> 14:38.380]  No, there are some qualifiers for that
[14:39.260 --> 14:41.420]  and again, we could spend quite a bit of time talking
[14:41.420 --> 14:43.460]  about what those qualifiers are and the permutations
[14:43.460 --> 14:45.340]  and it has a lot to do with whether you're there
[14:45.340 --> 14:47.900]  at the behest of the federal government and so forth.
[14:47.900 --> 14:51.180]  So no, if somebody goes,
[14:51.180 --> 14:53.100]  if somebody lives in like you said Bali
[14:53.100 --> 14:56.340]  and they're earning money to sustain themselves,
[14:56.340 --> 14:57.580]  they're earning money in Bali
[14:57.580 --> 14:59.300]  to sustain themselves in Bali,
[14:59.300 --> 15:01.620]  there's no US taxation on that.
[15:01.620 --> 15:02.820]  Okay, understood.
[15:02.820 --> 15:04.060]  I'm sure there's a couple of folks out there
[15:04.060 --> 15:05.220]  because there's guys that I know
[15:05.220 --> 15:06.620]  that are doing that same thing,
[15:06.620 --> 15:07.460]  they're overseas like,
[15:07.540 --> 15:08.780]  I haven't renounced citizenship
[15:08.780 --> 15:10.700]  but I still have foreign source income,
[15:10.700 --> 15:11.540]  do I kind of fall?
[15:11.540 --> 15:13.620]  And guys, before we go any further,
[15:13.620 --> 15:14.980]  let me say really quickly,
[15:14.980 --> 15:16.060]  I didn't do this at the beginning of the show
[15:16.060 --> 15:19.060]  and I always should and regardless of what you hear today,
[15:19.060 --> 15:21.060]  none of this is financial nor legal advice,
[15:21.060 --> 15:22.180]  do your own research,
[15:22.180 --> 15:24.340]  see if this all makes sense and holds water.
[15:24.340 --> 15:26.180]  Dave, really quickly, can you cite,
[15:26.180 --> 15:28.220]  and I know you have these at the top of your head,
[15:28.220 --> 15:31.900]  can you cite a couple of the important US court cases
[15:31.900 --> 15:34.500]  that establish these sort of clauses
[15:34.500 --> 15:36.860]  and establish who is the tax imposed upon
[15:38.340 --> 15:40.500]  in case people want to kind of do their own reading
[15:40.500 --> 15:43.300]  and they want to kind of fact check this, so to speak.
[15:44.540 --> 15:48.940]  Okay, so in terms of non-residentialized
[15:48.940 --> 15:51.900]  and foreign corporations with US source income,
[15:51.900 --> 15:54.180]  probably the seminal case on that
[15:54.180 --> 15:58.780]  is Bruce Shaver v. Union Pacific Railroad from 1916.
[15:58.780 --> 16:03.780]  And the reason it's Bruce Shaver v. Union Pacific Railroad
[16:04.540 --> 16:09.540]  is Bruce Shaver was an American citizen living in New York
[16:10.620 --> 16:15.220]  and he was what we now call in modern tax law,
[16:15.220 --> 16:17.060]  he was the domestic agent,
[16:17.060 --> 16:20.060]  also referred to in tax law as a US person.
[16:20.060 --> 16:24.300]  He was the domestic agent for a foreign person
[16:24.300 --> 16:28.100]  who had invested in the Union Pacific Railroad.
[16:28.100 --> 16:31.220]  And there was a question of whether Frank Bruce Shaver,
[16:31.220 --> 16:33.260]  as in Bruce Shaver v. Union Pacific Railroad,
[16:33.260 --> 16:36.820]  whether Frank was required to withhold and pay over the tax
[16:36.820 --> 16:38.100]  to the United States government.
[16:38.100 --> 16:39.540]  So that's the very first case,
[16:39.540 --> 16:44.540]  but there are very few cases that deal specifically
[16:45.300 --> 16:49.140]  with the non-residential and foreign corporation issue.
[16:49.140 --> 16:51.260]  But here's the way I encourage people
[16:51.260 --> 16:53.820]  to do their own research on this, okay?
[16:53.820 --> 16:57.860]  So what people call it just out in society,
[16:57.860 --> 16:59.340]  we talk about the income tax, right?
[16:59.340 --> 17:02.140]  We just commonly call it income tax.
[17:02.140 --> 17:05.380]  Well, if you wanna know what it is legally,
[17:05.380 --> 17:10.380]  it's in title 26 of the United States code, subtitle A.
[17:10.940 --> 17:14.140]  What everybody calls income tax, all of it's in subtitle A.
[17:15.380 --> 17:20.380]  So subtitle A, it's got more chapters over the years,
[17:20.380 --> 17:22.780]  but the primary chapters are one, two, and three.
[17:24.300 --> 17:28.220]  And chapter one, normal taxes and surcharge taxes.
[17:28.220 --> 17:32.340]  Then chapter two is work, so I forget the exact language
[17:32.340 --> 17:34.900]  they use in the title, but self-employment tax, okay?
[17:36.540 --> 17:40.420]  And people get confused by those titles.
[17:41.780 --> 17:44.340]  And then they get to chapter three,
[17:44.340 --> 17:47.460]  and it says withholding on U.S. source income
[17:47.460 --> 17:51.020]  from non-residential aliens and foreign corporations, okay?
[17:51.020 --> 17:53.380]  So here's what the average Joe does,
[17:53.380 --> 17:57.220]  which by the way, I did my first couple of years
[17:57.220 --> 18:00.060]  when I was researching, so I am as guilty
[18:00.060 --> 18:02.140]  as anybody else of having done this.
[18:04.140 --> 18:06.540]  Chapters one and two are voluminous,
[18:06.540 --> 18:08.860]  so I would spend all this time going through
[18:08.860 --> 18:12.020]  all these different statutes and regulations,
[18:12.020 --> 18:13.660]  and then I'm working my way through,
[18:13.660 --> 18:15.420]  working my way through, working my way through,
[18:15.420 --> 18:18.060]  and then I get to chapter three, and I turn the page,
[18:18.060 --> 18:19.340]  and there's chapter three,
[18:19.340 --> 18:20.820]  withholding on non-residential aliens
[18:20.820 --> 18:22.180]  and foreign corporations.
[18:22.180 --> 18:24.900]  Well, shit, that's not the right one.
[18:24.900 --> 18:28.220]  I go back to one and two, looking for my answers.
[18:29.940 --> 18:34.940]  And it took me a while to realize that this is the way
[18:36.140 --> 18:40.020]  people who want to understand how the tax code is written,
[18:40.020 --> 18:41.740]  who it applies to, who it doesn't,
[18:41.740 --> 18:43.700]  how it's put together, is this.
[18:44.780 --> 18:47.060]  Chapters one and two are what I refer to
[18:47.060 --> 18:49.700]  as the rules of computation.
[18:49.700 --> 18:52.700]  In other words, if somebody has had the income tax
[18:52.700 --> 18:56.180]  imposed upon them, chapters one and two
[18:57.060 --> 19:02.060]  explain how to figure out the amount of tax
[19:02.380 --> 19:06.060]  that kind of person owes the government, okay?
[19:06.060 --> 19:08.860]  That's all one and two are, to just say,
[19:08.860 --> 19:12.460]  the computation's to figure out how much, boom.
[19:12.460 --> 19:15.220]  With that sentence, you've completely embodied
[19:15.220 --> 19:16.300]  chapters one and two.
[19:16.940 --> 19:21.940]  Every tax law in history has a collection mechanism
[19:25.620 --> 19:28.180]  attached to it, because what good does it do
[19:28.180 --> 19:32.060]  to impose a tax without the law specifying
[19:32.060 --> 19:34.820]  who can collect, from who the collection could be done,
[19:34.820 --> 19:36.700]  how it is to be done, when it is to be done, right?
[19:36.700 --> 19:39.220]  Without that, the taxes are irrelevant, right?
[19:39.220 --> 19:43.620]  So every tax law in U.S. history has a collection mechanism.
[19:44.460 --> 19:48.580]  Chapter three, entitled Withholding of U.S. Source Income
[19:48.580 --> 19:51.580]  from Non-Resident Aliens and Foreign Corporations
[19:51.580 --> 19:56.540]  is the collection mechanism.
[19:56.540 --> 20:00.060]  So chapters one and chapters two,
[20:00.060 --> 20:03.980]  it's all about non-resident aliens and foreign corporations.
[20:03.980 --> 20:08.660]  Then chapter three tells, explains,
[20:08.660 --> 20:13.420]  here's how you go about collecting that tax from them.
[20:14.620 --> 20:17.900]  For people who, this may be a case of first impressions,
[20:17.900 --> 20:20.580]  that may sound really unusual,
[20:20.580 --> 20:21.900]  and some people may be thinking,
[20:21.900 --> 20:23.180]  you don't have to go bullshit on that,
[20:23.180 --> 20:26.980]  but when you read it straight through,
[20:26.980 --> 20:28.620]  the light bulb comes on, you go,
[20:29.980 --> 20:32.860]  it's so simple when you look at it correctly.
[20:35.660 --> 20:38.580]  So read it is your advice, read it and understand it.
[20:38.580 --> 20:42.380]  Yeah, and we didn't talk about it at the outset,
[20:42.380 --> 20:44.140]  we didn't talk about income tax shattering the mess,
[20:44.140 --> 20:46.100]  which is my book where I lay this all out,
[20:46.100 --> 20:47.500]  it's been out 15 years now.
[20:48.420 --> 20:50.900]  And so all of the things, thank you,
[20:50.900 --> 20:54.420]  all of the things that we're gonna be talking about today,
[20:54.420 --> 20:57.780]  I'm gonna guess 99% of the things we're talking about today,
[20:57.780 --> 21:02.780]  people will find mountains of incontrovertible evidence
[21:03.340 --> 21:05.580]  of that income tax shattering the mess.
[21:05.580 --> 21:07.900]  And I don't know how many tens of thousands of people
[21:07.900 --> 21:09.540]  who've read it over the last 15 years,
[21:09.540 --> 21:11.620]  but I assure you this,
[21:11.620 --> 21:13.820]  every single person who reads it,
[21:13.820 --> 21:16.660]  when they get to the final page and they close the book,
[21:16.660 --> 21:18.380]  there is no doubt in their mind
[21:18.380 --> 21:20.780]  upon whom the tax has been imposed and who it is not.
[21:20.780 --> 21:25.780]  The evidence is not only is it mountainous,
[21:26.900 --> 21:28.100]  it's incontrovertible.
[21:30.180 --> 21:34.540]  So Paul, this is true, Dave, and everything is as you say,
[21:34.540 --> 21:36.580]  why don't more people know about this?
[21:36.580 --> 21:37.420]  What are some of the,
[21:37.420 --> 21:40.260]  is this just a gigantic propaganda campaign
[21:40.260 --> 21:41.180]  by the US government?
[21:41.620 --> 21:42.940]  I mean, I can't imagine they would ever do that
[21:42.940 --> 21:44.380]  about anything, right?
[21:44.380 --> 21:45.820]  So what is it exactly?
[21:45.820 --> 21:46.980]  Why is this so suppressed?
[21:46.980 --> 21:51.100]  How, what is the suppression mechanisms they use
[21:51.100 --> 21:52.740]  or what are some of these tactics
[21:53.780 --> 21:56.420]  that they use to keep people in the dark?
[21:58.180 --> 21:59.260]  Number one, fear.
[22:03.460 --> 22:05.740]  The government has sort of fallen out of this habit,
[22:05.740 --> 22:06.860]  to be clear.
[22:06.860 --> 22:10.700]  But for decades, I used to refer to January 1st
[22:10.700 --> 22:13.540]  through April 15th as the US government
[22:13.540 --> 22:16.540]  annual tax terrorism season.
[22:16.540 --> 22:18.380]  And that is when they would go out
[22:18.380 --> 22:21.100]  and they would just pick people to prosecute.
[22:21.100 --> 22:22.020]  And then they would probably,
[22:22.020 --> 22:24.340]  normally these prosecutions would begin in September,
[22:24.340 --> 22:25.980]  October, November of the year before.
[22:25.980 --> 22:27.900]  And what they were looking to do was come to trial
[22:27.900 --> 22:29.940]  and get a conviction sometime
[22:29.940 --> 22:32.100]  between January 1st and April 15th.
[22:32.100 --> 22:33.820]  And then the US Treasury Department,
[22:33.820 --> 22:35.460]  their PR people would contact
[22:35.460 --> 22:37.300]  all the various news organizations
[22:37.300 --> 22:39.140]  and then boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
[22:39.140 --> 22:40.540]  all these stories about people
[22:40.540 --> 22:42.100]  getting convicted of tax crimes.
[22:43.580 --> 22:48.580]  And that was an intentional campaign of fear.
[22:50.620 --> 22:51.460]  Plain and simple.
[22:53.060 --> 22:55.980]  So the number one obstacle is fear.
[22:55.980 --> 23:00.980]  I think the number two obstacle is what you alluded to.
[23:01.300 --> 23:05.260]  There's been so much propaganda from the government
[23:05.260 --> 23:06.420]  over the last 60 years.
[23:06.420 --> 23:09.180]  And I will add, it is perhaps
[23:09.180 --> 23:11.780]  the most successful disinformation campaign
[23:11.780 --> 23:13.660]  in all of human history.
[23:14.900 --> 23:17.660]  Because if you and I, I live near Vegas,
[23:17.660 --> 23:19.660]  so if you and I were walking down the street in Vegas
[23:19.660 --> 23:21.780]  and we stopped 100 random people
[23:21.780 --> 23:24.420]  and asked them if it's true that the income tax applies
[23:24.420 --> 23:25.980]  to everybody who earns a living,
[23:25.980 --> 23:28.860]  I'm guessing 98 out of 100 would say, absolutely.
[23:29.700 --> 23:31.980]  That's how brainwashed the American public is.
[23:31.980 --> 23:35.980]  And there's been a lot of famous expositors
[23:35.980 --> 23:38.500]  who've commented when people are brainwashed.
[23:39.620 --> 23:42.700]  And there's a couple of things about being brainwashed.
[23:42.700 --> 23:45.700]  Number one, if it's done right,
[23:45.700 --> 23:47.860]  you're not aware you're brainwashed.
[23:47.860 --> 23:52.860]  So these people actually believe something that isn't true
[23:53.820 --> 23:57.500]  because not only the government has been telling them
[23:57.500 --> 24:00.340]  for their entire life that everybody owes the income tax,
[24:00.340 --> 24:02.660]  but then their mom and their dad tell them that
[24:02.660 --> 24:04.540]  and their aunts and their uncles tell them that
[24:04.580 --> 24:06.300]  and the company they work for tell them that
[24:06.300 --> 24:08.340]  and all their friends tell them that.
[24:08.340 --> 24:10.740]  So they're really faced with this situation
[24:11.740 --> 24:15.860]  where somebody has to, how can I describe this?
[24:16.820 --> 24:19.820]  And I think this goes to the theme of that ad,
[24:19.820 --> 24:22.780]  for instance, that you ran at the outset, okay?
[24:22.780 --> 24:26.940]  Somebody actually has to show some fucking testicles.
[24:27.860 --> 24:30.580]  They have to say, you know what, mom and dad,
[24:30.580 --> 24:32.020]  I really don't give a shit
[24:32.020 --> 24:33.620]  when you tell me about this subject.
[24:33.740 --> 24:35.980]  And you know what, aunt and uncle, the same for you.
[24:35.980 --> 24:39.180]  And all you people at work, go fuck yourself.
[24:39.180 --> 24:41.260]  I don't give a shit what you think.
[24:41.260 --> 24:43.980]  I'm gonna read this book or I'm gonna do the research
[24:43.980 --> 24:46.020]  and I'm gonna come to my own determination.
[24:46.020 --> 24:48.220]  I don't give a shit what you people think.
[24:48.220 --> 24:50.580]  But people aren't built like that.
[24:50.580 --> 24:52.220]  That takes a special kind of person
[24:52.220 --> 24:54.380]  and I think there's damn few of them around.
[24:56.180 --> 24:58.500]  And I think that also explains why,
[24:58.500 --> 24:59.740]  I'll tell you a funny story.
[25:00.740 --> 25:02.980]  When I was putting income tax
[25:02.980 --> 25:04.380]  shattering the mist together,
[25:05.540 --> 25:08.780]  I thought, because at the time when I was writing it,
[25:08.780 --> 25:12.820]  there was no single comprehensive compendium available
[25:12.820 --> 25:14.780]  in the entire country telling the truth
[25:14.780 --> 25:16.420]  about the income tax, none.
[25:16.420 --> 25:19.820]  Which I thought was a huge omission
[25:19.820 --> 25:21.380]  in getting the truth out there.
[25:22.300 --> 25:25.980]  And so in my naivete,
[25:25.980 --> 25:30.980]  I thought, I'm gonna put this grand compendium together
[25:32.340 --> 25:35.820]  with everything anyone could want to know
[25:35.820 --> 25:37.780]  about the income tax to make it clear
[25:37.780 --> 25:39.500]  it doesn't apply to the average American.
[25:39.500 --> 25:44.500]  And when they see the mountains of incontrovertible evidence,
[25:44.700 --> 25:47.220]  boy, this news is gonna spread like wildfire.
[25:47.220 --> 25:50.460]  I'm gonna sell millions of copies.
[25:50.460 --> 25:52.700]  As a side note, I'll become a millionaire
[25:52.700 --> 25:55.100]  and we'll free the country from the income tax.
[25:56.180 --> 25:57.980]  And as I just alluded to a moment ago,
[25:57.980 --> 26:02.180]  I have sold some amount of tens of thousands, right?
[26:02.180 --> 26:04.340]  We're not even into the hundreds of thousands
[26:04.340 --> 26:06.140]  yet 15 years later.
[26:06.140 --> 26:09.020]  And I think that speaks to what we were just talking about,
[26:09.020 --> 26:12.860]  that somebody actually has to believe
[26:12.860 --> 26:17.860]  that the narrative either is false
[26:17.980 --> 26:21.340]  or really could be false
[26:22.620 --> 26:24.460]  to buy the book and spend the time reading.
[26:24.460 --> 26:26.500]  And the government's propaganda campaign
[26:26.500 --> 26:30.940]  has been so successful that the vast majority of Americans
[26:30.940 --> 26:34.260]  refuse to acknowledge that they're brainwashed.
[26:34.260 --> 26:38.740]  And when you tell them politely or otherwise
[26:38.740 --> 26:41.540]  that they're brainwashed, that's not what the law says,
[26:43.380 --> 26:44.900]  either they get very angry
[26:44.900 --> 26:46.420]  or they just shut down and walk away.
[26:46.420 --> 26:48.940]  So the percentage of Americans
[26:48.940 --> 26:51.620]  that actually have the testicular fortitude
[26:51.620 --> 26:53.660]  to say, screw all you people,
[26:53.660 --> 26:54.980]  I'm gonna go find out for myself.
[26:54.980 --> 26:57.460]  I mean, we're talking about a tiny, tiny,
[26:57.460 --> 26:59.180]  tiny percentage of the population.
[26:59.180 --> 27:00.420]  I think that's the number one reason
[27:00.420 --> 27:02.060]  that the truth hasn't caught fire.
[27:03.660 --> 27:05.420]  And then to that point, I mean,
[27:07.020 --> 27:09.740]  myself and my co-host, Rich, who runs a channel
[27:09.740 --> 27:11.220]  and who is a business partner of mine,
[27:11.220 --> 27:13.580]  we're very much embodying of the tribe mindset.
[27:13.580 --> 27:15.700]  Like you're in the inside or you're the outside, right?
[27:15.700 --> 27:17.100]  You can earn your way on the inside,
[27:17.100 --> 27:18.340]  but you've got to put some skin in the game,
[27:18.340 --> 27:20.780]  you've got to prove yourself, et cetera.
[27:20.780 --> 27:23.180]  But you are of the school that's a little more like,
[27:23.700 --> 27:25.940]  hey, I wanna reach people far and wide.
[27:25.940 --> 27:28.020]  We call it unplugging from the matrix, so to speak,
[27:28.020 --> 27:29.020]  like the un-brainwashing.
[27:29.020 --> 27:31.300]  We wanna unplug as many people as possible.
[27:31.300 --> 27:34.380]  But with that, I'm sure has come with,
[27:34.380 --> 27:36.380]  like you said, vitriol, hate mail,
[27:36.380 --> 27:39.260]  people that are trying to put you in jail.
[27:39.260 --> 27:41.140]  I mean, we can mention,
[27:41.140 --> 27:42.220]  I know we talked about this last time,
[27:42.220 --> 27:44.940]  but you can briefly talk about the injunction.
[27:44.940 --> 27:46.820]  But if the fact of the matter is,
[27:46.820 --> 27:47.820]  you've never been convicted
[27:47.820 --> 27:49.380]  of any sort of tax fraud or crime,
[27:49.380 --> 27:50.700]  you've never done any-
[27:50.700 --> 27:52.020]  Or refused.
[27:52.020 --> 27:52.860]  Or refused.
[27:52.860 --> 27:54.100]  Or even accused.
[27:54.100 --> 27:54.940]  Or accused.
[27:54.940 --> 27:56.020]  You've never done jail time.
[27:56.020 --> 27:57.140]  You've never been,
[27:57.140 --> 27:59.140]  so there's, you know,
[27:59.140 --> 28:01.100]  and you've been this mouthpiece
[28:01.100 --> 28:04.580]  for this sort of tax honesty movement
[28:04.580 --> 28:06.340]  for the last 30 years.
[28:06.340 --> 28:10.620]  And so, what was that process like for you
[28:10.620 --> 28:12.380]  where you were excited, right?
[28:12.380 --> 28:14.260]  But when that stuff started happening,
[28:15.620 --> 28:17.300]  how did that strengthen your resolve
[28:17.300 --> 28:18.660]  or how did you continue,
[28:18.660 --> 28:20.220]  and how do you continue today
[28:20.220 --> 28:22.460]  to just wade through all the nonsense and the BS?
[28:22.460 --> 28:24.420]  I mean, there's already guys in the chat
[28:24.420 --> 28:25.580]  calling your story BS.
[28:25.580 --> 28:26.420]  Like, what's next?
[28:26.420 --> 28:27.460]  Sovereign citizens, right?
[28:27.460 --> 28:28.540]  I mean, there's already that stuff,
[28:28.540 --> 28:30.580]  and we haven't even been live for half an hour.
[28:30.580 --> 28:33.540]  So, you know, for people that may want to look into this,
[28:33.540 --> 28:35.340]  that are worried about familial pressure
[28:35.340 --> 28:38.100]  or societal ostracization,
[28:38.100 --> 28:40.260]  or even government pressure,
[28:40.260 --> 28:42.620]  how do you deal with it on a day-to-day basis?
[28:42.940 --> 28:47.940]  Well, I think with things like YouTube and Rumble,
[28:48.340 --> 28:54.340]  I get less vitriol than I once did,
[28:54.660 --> 28:58.860]  because anything somebody says to me,
[28:58.860 --> 29:02.700]  say, here's a link where I talk about this very issue,
[29:02.700 --> 29:05.900]  and I quote the law and I show the court cases.
[29:05.900 --> 29:08.740]  So, if you think I'm a piece of crap
[29:08.740 --> 29:09.860]  for telling the truth,
[29:10.220 --> 29:13.260]  if you think I'm a piece of crap for telling the truth,
[29:14.460 --> 29:15.300]  watch it.
[29:15.300 --> 29:16.740]  And if you don't care to watch it,
[29:16.740 --> 29:18.860]  then I don't give a shit what you have to say.
[29:18.860 --> 29:22.140]  If you want to remain ignorant and cast aspersions,
[29:22.140 --> 29:23.100]  why would I care?
[29:24.420 --> 29:27.580]  But back in the early times,
[29:27.580 --> 29:30.540]  if we go back to, say, when I started my research,
[29:30.540 --> 29:32.660]  which was roughly 1993,
[29:34.580 --> 29:39.580]  there was, like, nobody who wanted to listen to this.
[29:39.620 --> 29:41.180]  Nobody, okay?
[29:42.460 --> 29:44.740]  The internet wasn't really a thing in 1993.
[29:44.740 --> 29:47.180]  It existed, but it wasn't useful, really.
[29:48.500 --> 29:53.500]  And so, all in all, I think this is important.
[29:54.260 --> 29:57.940]  If we use 1993 as my personal moment
[29:57.940 --> 30:01.400]  where things began to today, as you and I are talking,
[30:02.580 --> 30:04.380]  things have improved dramatically
[30:04.380 --> 30:06.820]  in terms of receptivity to the message.
[30:06.820 --> 30:11.020]  And I think also, sort of on an unrelated note,
[30:11.020 --> 30:16.020]  I think 2020, 21, and 22 also opened the door
[30:17.060 --> 30:18.340]  to more people being receptive
[30:18.340 --> 30:20.740]  because more people who perhaps thought
[30:20.740 --> 30:24.140]  the government was mostly credible
[30:24.140 --> 30:26.780]  had that blown out of the water by the COVID events
[30:26.780 --> 30:29.620]  and the actions that the various governments took
[30:29.620 --> 30:32.060]  in this country, state, and federal.
[30:32.060 --> 30:34.820]  So, there's been a lot more receptivity since then.
[30:34.820 --> 30:36.820]  But how have I dealt with it?
[30:39.780 --> 30:42.980]  You know, if we go back to my military time
[30:42.980 --> 30:44.480]  and my time in law enforcement,
[30:46.260 --> 30:50.020]  I consider that I had contributed,
[30:50.020 --> 30:53.900]  that I had taken a stand for what I believed in.
[30:53.900 --> 30:55.620]  And of course, many of the things that I believed,
[30:55.620 --> 30:57.060]  for instance, when I went in the United States Army,
[30:57.060 --> 30:58.260]  turned out to be not true.
[30:59.700 --> 31:02.940]  I had a lot of illusions from the way I was raised, right?
[31:02.940 --> 31:05.500]  And then I didn't learn my lesson in the military
[31:05.500 --> 31:07.460]  and I went to law enforcement and so forth.
[31:07.460 --> 31:10.460]  But nevertheless, at that point in time,
[31:10.460 --> 31:15.180]  I still was motivated by the concept,
[31:15.180 --> 31:17.180]  and I still am today, by the way,
[31:17.180 --> 31:21.520]  by the concept that government is our servant
[31:21.520 --> 31:23.080]  and we are the masters.
[31:24.900 --> 31:27.620]  And I felt that I had fought for that.
[31:27.620 --> 31:28.940]  I had bled for that.
[31:29.820 --> 31:33.260]  And so when I started to realize
[31:33.260 --> 31:37.100]  that what I was looking at was actually true,
[31:37.100 --> 31:40.620]  that the government had created a tax over here
[31:40.620 --> 31:43.980]  that does this, but had knowingly, willfully,
[31:43.980 --> 31:48.980]  and intentionally engaged in disinformation
[31:49.060 --> 31:51.420]  to convince 300 million people
[31:51.420 --> 31:53.340]  that it's actually this tax over here,
[31:53.340 --> 31:54.660]  something entirely different.
[31:54.660 --> 31:56.700]  They had knowingly, willfully, and intentionally done that
[31:57.100 --> 32:01.340]  in order to commit what I call an income tax shattering
[32:01.340 --> 32:04.180]  miss, the largest financial crime in history.
[32:04.180 --> 32:08.420]  With us, the masters as the victims,
[32:13.060 --> 32:14.420]  it was a dumb deal for me.
[32:14.420 --> 32:15.940]  I couldn't turn away.
[32:15.940 --> 32:17.500]  It's just not how I'm built.
[32:18.860 --> 32:21.700]  The government could have done anything to me.
[32:21.700 --> 32:24.980]  And in those first years, from 1993 through like 97,
[32:24.980 --> 32:29.980]  they tried everything in the book to shut me up.
[32:32.580 --> 32:36.100]  They tried everything they could do
[32:36.100 --> 32:39.180]  that was within their legal power to fuck me over.
[32:42.300 --> 32:46.740]  And I was just like, okay, keep it up.
[32:46.740 --> 32:48.340]  I'm still never gonna file a 1040.
[32:48.340 --> 32:50.260]  I'm still gonna never give you another penny.
[32:50.260 --> 32:51.420]  You can do whatever you wanna do
[32:51.420 --> 32:53.780]  for the next 60 years of my life.
[32:53.820 --> 32:55.260]  You're never getting another 1040
[32:55.260 --> 32:56.900]  and you're never getting many more of my money
[32:56.900 --> 32:59.460]  because you're fucking thieves, period.
[32:59.460 --> 33:01.780]  Full stop, go fuck yourself.
[33:01.780 --> 33:04.100]  And that was my mindset from the very moment
[33:04.100 --> 33:06.300]  I realized what I had been told was true
[33:06.300 --> 33:08.180]  from having done my own research.
[33:08.180 --> 33:09.820]  So it really didn't matter.
[33:09.820 --> 33:11.340]  I mean, obviously it was unpleasant
[33:11.340 --> 33:14.540]  to have people make all sorts of false accusations,
[33:14.540 --> 33:17.860]  but in the big scheme of life, who cares?
[33:17.860 --> 33:18.940]  Right.
[33:18.940 --> 33:20.940]  And again, doubling down,
[33:20.940 --> 33:23.740]  they came at you with everything they could legally,
[33:24.740 --> 33:26.140]  and a lot of people that follow the work
[33:26.140 --> 33:26.980]  or that have read the book
[33:26.980 --> 33:29.860]  or that are interested in this kind of content,
[33:29.860 --> 33:32.620]  they're, one of the most common things I hear is like,
[33:32.620 --> 33:34.100]  well, it doesn't matter what the law says
[33:34.100 --> 33:36.260]  because the IRS is just gonna be corrupted.
[33:36.260 --> 33:37.420]  They're gonna take you to court
[33:37.420 --> 33:38.940]  and judges are gonna rule against you
[33:38.940 --> 33:39.780]  and you're gonna be screwed.
[33:39.780 --> 33:41.100]  So good luck defending this in court.
[33:41.100 --> 33:43.100]  I'd rather just pay, I consider that,
[33:43.100 --> 33:44.100]  the cost of doing business.
[33:44.100 --> 33:46.220]  And you're a guy that's been screaming for the rooftops
[33:46.220 --> 33:47.780]  for the last 30 years.
[33:47.780 --> 33:50.740]  And again, you've never done a day of jail time,
[33:50.740 --> 33:53.700]  been convicted or accused of any sort of tax fraud or crime.
[33:54.700 --> 33:56.780]  I mean, if you're not the proof in the pudding, what is?
[33:56.780 --> 34:01.780]  So I mean, do you mind just very briefly chatting about,
[34:01.940 --> 34:03.980]  because again, it's brought up in the chat as it always is.
[34:03.980 --> 34:05.420]  Because when your name comes up, first thing,
[34:05.420 --> 34:07.580]  it's not the book, it's not DrReality.News,
[34:07.580 --> 34:11.420]  it's tax evasion specialist, Dave Champion,
[34:11.420 --> 34:12.460]  and his injunction.
[34:12.460 --> 34:15.460]  Can you just, in like a 30 second snippet,
[34:15.460 --> 34:17.300]  just tell people what that is and what that's not
[34:17.300 --> 34:18.300]  and what that means for you?
[34:19.300 --> 34:20.740]  Okay, so,
[34:24.940 --> 34:27.980]  the government attempted for many, many years
[34:27.980 --> 34:30.060]  to shut me down, to silence me.
[34:30.980 --> 34:34.660]  There was a, back in the late 90s and early 2000s,
[34:34.660 --> 34:38.060]  there was a very vibrant tax honesty community.
[34:39.580 --> 34:43.100]  And there were meetings across the country.
[34:44.020 --> 34:45.860]  Bob Schulz with the People Foundation
[34:45.860 --> 34:48.780]  for Constitutional Education held a big shindig
[34:48.780 --> 34:53.140]  in Las Vegas for three days and like 50 some odd
[34:53.140 --> 34:57.100]  of the top tax honesty researchers in the country attended
[34:57.100 --> 34:59.140]  of which I was honored to be one of them.
[35:00.220 --> 35:05.140]  And they charted a, they hoped to chart a course
[35:05.140 --> 35:07.020]  to wake the American public up and so forth.
[35:07.020 --> 35:09.180]  So I think this was a really vibrant movement.
[35:09.180 --> 35:11.580]  I was a part of that, I guess we would call it
[35:11.580 --> 35:14.700]  for lack of a better term, the leadership cast.
[35:14.700 --> 35:18.580]  I don't like that, because I think that the law
[35:18.580 --> 35:21.380]  and the research is the leader, not any individual.
[35:21.380 --> 35:26.260]  But nevertheless, and so the government had been trying
[35:26.260 --> 35:27.780]  to find a way to shut me up for years.
[35:27.780 --> 35:30.620]  And finally, what they did is they filed a suit
[35:30.620 --> 35:32.660]  for injunction in a federal court.
[35:32.660 --> 35:35.500]  And what they were trying to do was say
[35:35.500 --> 35:39.460]  that I could no longer help my fellow Americans
[35:40.660 --> 35:41.940]  exit the tax system.
[35:42.860 --> 35:46.340]  Okay, and their arguments were completely specious.
[35:46.340 --> 35:48.740]  Let me explain what I mean by that.
[35:48.740 --> 35:53.740]  They made, there was an IRS employee who was attached
[35:57.740 --> 36:01.060]  to this unit that was there to shut me down.
[36:01.060 --> 36:03.940]  His IRS approved pseudonym was Thomas Chung.
[36:03.940 --> 36:05.940]  We know that's a pseudonym because in the court papers
[36:05.940 --> 36:08.140]  he filed, he said, I'm filing this
[36:08.140 --> 36:11.460]  under my IRS approved pseudonym, Thomas Chung.
[36:11.460 --> 36:13.380]  And in that declaration to the court,
[36:13.380 --> 36:15.860]  he asserted that I said three things.
[36:15.860 --> 36:19.940]  Number one, that I said the term person
[36:19.940 --> 36:23.300]  in the US tax code does not include what the law calls
[36:23.300 --> 36:26.260]  a natural person, people like you and I, flesh and blood.
[36:26.260 --> 36:31.260]  Okay, that it only embraced what are called legal fictions.
[36:31.460 --> 36:34.180]  Okay, corporations, partnerships, things like that.
[36:34.180 --> 36:36.460]  Did not embrace Cubans.
[36:36.460 --> 36:39.380]  The second thing they said is that I said
[36:39.420 --> 36:42.420]  the tax paying income tax is voluntary.
[36:42.420 --> 36:44.820]  And the third thing they said, I said, I shouldn't say they
[36:44.820 --> 36:49.020]  Thomas Chung in his declaration, I called Mr. No Name
[36:49.020 --> 36:50.980]  because we don't know what his real name is.
[36:50.980 --> 36:53.940]  So Mr. No Name, the third thing he said that I said,
[36:53.940 --> 36:57.340]  what was, oh yeah, that wages as defined for the purpose
[36:57.340 --> 36:59.460]  of payroll withholding are not taxable.
[37:01.380 --> 37:03.100]  And it's so funny because when I got the paperwork
[37:03.100 --> 37:08.100]  I was looking at it, I have never said any of these things.
[37:08.700 --> 37:12.180]  And as a matter of fact, I have a video out.
[37:12.180 --> 37:14.480]  You can find it on my rumble page.
[37:14.480 --> 37:19.480]  And I say to people, you don't need to find where I said
[37:21.780 --> 37:23.860]  all three of those things.
[37:23.860 --> 37:28.860]  If you can find anywhere at any time that I said
[37:29.700 --> 37:34.700]  even one of those things, I'll give you $50,000 in cash
[37:35.360 --> 37:36.900]  on the barrel head.
[37:37.660 --> 37:38.500]  Because I never said them.
[37:38.500 --> 37:43.500]  And then of course, were there in Los Angeles
[37:44.700 --> 37:46.700]  in the federal district court, they're going through
[37:46.700 --> 37:50.180]  all the machinations of this process.
[37:50.180 --> 37:53.380]  And I told my attorney, I never said any of those things.
[37:53.380 --> 37:58.380]  So, and here's where we talked about trying legal things.
[38:00.700 --> 38:02.260]  This was an illegal thing.
[38:02.500 --> 38:07.500]  Okay, so my attorney said to the judge,
[38:10.100 --> 38:12.800]  a corrupt motherfucker by the name of Percy Anderson.
[38:15.260 --> 38:17.380]  And by the way, I don't think most judges are corrupt.
[38:17.380 --> 38:18.580]  Percy Anderson is, okay.
[38:18.580 --> 38:20.660]  So I wanna be clear the fact that I'm saying
[38:20.660 --> 38:22.140]  he's a corrupt motherfucker does not mean
[38:22.140 --> 38:24.300]  I'm branding all judges as being corrupt.
[38:25.440 --> 38:29.220]  So my attorney said, your honor, we would like to
[38:29.220 --> 38:31.400]  have an evidentiary hearing.
[38:31.440 --> 38:36.440]  So we can depose Thomas Chung and find out,
[38:38.560 --> 38:40.640]  he says, Dave Champion as an example,
[38:40.640 --> 38:43.700]  said the person does not include a natural person.
[38:43.700 --> 38:48.700]  So we wanna know where Thomas Chung believes
[38:49.480 --> 38:51.240]  Dave Champion said that.
[38:51.240 --> 38:52.320]  Was it in a chat group?
[38:52.320 --> 38:53.600]  Was it in a document?
[38:53.600 --> 38:55.480]  Was it in some other form of writing?
[38:56.400 --> 38:58.740]  We need to know where that is because Chung
[38:58.740 --> 39:00.440]  in his declaration made what the law calls
[39:00.440 --> 39:02.820]  a naked assertion, no evidence, okay.
[39:04.840 --> 39:07.240]  And it was no different than saying,
[39:07.240 --> 39:10.840]  I say Dave Champion is, I don't know, a bank robber, okay.
[39:10.840 --> 39:12.320]  You need evidence to back that up
[39:12.320 --> 39:14.160]  if you're gonna make that claim, right?
[39:14.160 --> 39:17.480]  So he made these three naked assertions.
[39:17.480 --> 39:21.360]  So my attorney said, we wanna have an evidentiary hearing
[39:21.360 --> 39:23.480]  so we can get the information behind that.
[39:24.400 --> 39:29.400]  And Judge Anderson denied that.
[39:29.660 --> 39:34.660]  Now, that's not just bad law.
[39:34.720 --> 39:37.280]  It's also a violation of the constitution
[39:37.280 --> 39:39.360]  because when the government makes an assertion,
[39:39.360 --> 39:40.700]  you have the right of due process.
[39:40.700 --> 39:43.040]  You have the right to say, okay,
[39:43.040 --> 39:46.940]  I need to see the proof of your naked assertion.
[39:46.940 --> 39:49.780]  What's behind the nakedness, okay?
[39:49.780 --> 39:52.440]  That allows you to answer the claim
[39:52.440 --> 39:54.880]  that the government is making, right?
[39:54.880 --> 39:56.400]  Use the bank robbery example.
[39:56.400 --> 39:58.020]  You're gonna claim I robbed a bank.
[39:58.020 --> 39:59.120]  You have to show evidence.
[39:59.120 --> 39:59.960]  I robbed a bank.
[39:59.960 --> 40:02.160]  You can't just say it and then tell the jury
[40:02.160 --> 40:04.960]  they don't need any evidence, okay?
[40:04.960 --> 40:07.060]  Which was what Judge Anderson did.
[40:09.320 --> 40:11.360]  But as I always explain to people
[40:11.360 --> 40:14.280]  about that the government trying to take me to court
[40:14.280 --> 40:15.320]  to get an injunction,
[40:16.560 --> 40:21.300]  it is absolutely spectacular news
[40:21.300 --> 40:22.640]  for anybody who wants to know the truth
[40:22.640 --> 40:23.480]  about the income tax.
[40:23.480 --> 40:24.300]  Here's why.
[40:26.280 --> 40:28.520]  At the time that income tax shattering the, I'm sorry.
[40:28.520 --> 40:30.600]  At the time that they took me to court
[40:30.600 --> 40:32.620]  in an attempt to get this injunction,
[40:32.620 --> 40:35.280]  income tax shattering the mess was already out.
[40:35.280 --> 40:38.160]  And the Department of Justice Tax Division
[40:38.160 --> 40:41.840]  had already admitted they owned it, okay?
[40:42.960 --> 40:47.960]  And everything that's worth saying,
[40:50.720 --> 40:54.520]  probably 95% of the information that's in my head
[40:54.520 --> 40:57.720]  about income tax is in income tax shattering the mess.
[40:59.360 --> 41:01.160]  And here they had income tax shattering the mess
[41:01.160 --> 41:03.400]  sitting right next to them on their desk.
[41:05.440 --> 41:09.280]  So they could have offered my views
[41:09.280 --> 41:10.480]  from income tax shattering the mess.
[41:10.480 --> 41:14.520]  They could have moved into evidence
[41:14.520 --> 41:17.400]  the exact things I really said.
[41:19.440 --> 41:21.840]  Instead, they didn't even bring up
[41:21.840 --> 41:24.840]  income tax shattering the mess not once.
[41:24.840 --> 41:26.920]  They didn't offer a word from income tax
[41:26.920 --> 41:28.720]  shattering the mess in the courtroom.
[41:29.920 --> 41:33.500]  They did not try and enter any passages or any statements.
[41:34.760 --> 41:38.940]  And the reason is all of that is not my views.
[41:38.940 --> 41:39.840]  It's what the government said.
[41:39.840 --> 41:40.840]  You've read it, you know.
[41:40.840 --> 41:42.720]  Everything that's in there is what the government has said,
[41:42.720 --> 41:44.880]  not what I've said, right?
[41:44.880 --> 41:49.880]  So why did they bring those three particular allegations,
[41:49.880 --> 41:51.760]  those false allegations up?
[41:52.640 --> 41:55.160]  They brought them up for one reason
[41:55.160 --> 41:56.720]  and then I'll tell you my views on that.
[41:56.760 --> 42:00.800]  Number one, the primary reason is federal courts
[42:00.800 --> 42:05.800]  have adjudicated all three of those views to be false.
[42:08.960 --> 42:11.960]  And I agree, those courts were absolutely right.
[42:11.960 --> 42:15.400]  This is what I mean by not all courts are correct, okay?
[42:15.400 --> 42:16.380]  Corrupt, excuse me.
[42:17.780 --> 42:20.120]  All three of those positions are nonsense.
[42:20.120 --> 42:21.120]  They're ridiculous.
[42:22.120 --> 42:26.420]  So, but in order to influence the court,
[42:27.320 --> 42:29.400]  they needed to have it on the record,
[42:30.400 --> 42:32.320]  they needed to enter into the record
[42:32.320 --> 42:35.640]  that I had said things that previous federal courts
[42:35.640 --> 42:37.880]  had adjudicated to be false.
[42:39.060 --> 42:40.600]  So what they did is they made,
[42:40.600 --> 42:41.840]  and I think this is the important part
[42:41.840 --> 42:44.880]  that I would want your audience to take away.
[42:44.880 --> 42:46.280]  They had income tax shattering the mess
[42:46.280 --> 42:49.780]  sitting right there, 408 pages.
[42:49.780 --> 42:51.980]  They could have taken anything from there.
[42:51.980 --> 42:55.100]  They threw that away and they made shit up.
[42:55.100 --> 42:56.340]  The reason they made shit up
[42:56.340 --> 42:58.920]  is because what I say in income tax shattering the mess
[42:58.920 --> 43:03.060]  is the indisputable truth.
[43:03.060 --> 43:05.300]  They had to completely falsify.
[43:05.300 --> 43:07.620]  By the way, there was,
[43:07.620 --> 43:10.100]  and I've said this publicly many times,
[43:10.100 --> 43:11.400]  I'm gonna say it again.
[43:11.400 --> 43:13.860]  There was a felonious conspiracy
[43:14.980 --> 43:17.580]  between the assistant US attorney
[43:17.580 --> 43:18.980]  who was prosecuting the case
[43:20.180 --> 43:23.180]  Judge Anderson and Thomas Chung.
[43:25.480 --> 43:29.020]  The reason that the judge denied that motion
[43:29.020 --> 43:31.860]  for an evidentiary hearing
[43:31.860 --> 43:34.960]  to explore where Thomas Chung got those notions
[43:34.960 --> 43:36.460]  is it would have revealed Thomas Chung
[43:36.460 --> 43:37.560]  had committed a felony.
[43:39.500 --> 43:42.140]  And the fact that the judge knew that,
[43:43.360 --> 43:44.820]  and so he denied it,
[43:44.820 --> 43:46.920]  thus creating a constitutional violation,
[43:47.920 --> 43:52.440]  that telegraphs to me that he
[43:52.440 --> 43:53.740]  and the assistant US attorney
[43:53.740 --> 43:54.920]  who was in charge of the case,
[43:54.920 --> 43:58.120]  they'd talked together outside the presence
[43:58.120 --> 44:01.320]  of the defense, my counsel, and said,
[44:01.320 --> 44:05.440]  look, it's just common sense
[44:05.440 --> 44:06.820]  the champion's attorney's gonna ask
[44:06.820 --> 44:08.820]  for an evidentiary hearing.
[44:08.820 --> 44:11.480]  Your honor, it is imperative that you not grant that.
[44:14.360 --> 44:16.320]  Because any rational judge would have said,
[44:16.480 --> 44:17.660]  yeah, of course, that's a matter of due process.
[44:17.660 --> 44:19.280]  Of course you're entitled to an evidentiary hearing.
[44:19.280 --> 44:20.280]  Let's get that done.
[44:21.360 --> 44:25.840]  Okay, so there was multiple felonies committed
[44:25.840 --> 44:29.780]  in order to give the public the impression
[44:29.780 --> 44:31.980]  that I was spewing falsehoods.
[44:35.460 --> 44:37.880]  So this has everything to do,
[44:37.880 --> 44:39.200]  the injunction has nothing to do with,
[44:39.200 --> 44:40.760]  hey, this guy hasn't paid taxes,
[44:40.760 --> 44:42.600]  this guy needs to file,
[44:42.600 --> 44:43.960]  has nothing to do with that whatsoever.
[44:43.960 --> 44:45.000]  It has everything to do with,
[44:45.080 --> 44:46.320]  and in layman's terms, somebody says,
[44:46.320 --> 44:48.120]  hey, you said these false things
[44:48.120 --> 44:50.440]  that previous courts have already determined is false.
[44:50.440 --> 44:53.380]  So therefore we are going to assert
[44:53.380 --> 44:57.080]  that you made claims that you didn't
[44:57.080 --> 44:59.280]  so we can sort of take you down.
[44:59.280 --> 45:03.520]  But I think, Dave, I think this is sort of people
[45:03.520 --> 45:05.200]  that may be watching this and the people that bring that up,
[45:05.200 --> 45:07.160]  they're kind of like, well, this is case in point.
[45:07.160 --> 45:09.840]  The government, the IRS will make up
[45:09.840 --> 45:12.720]  whatever they want to about you to throw the book at you.
[45:12.720 --> 45:16.040]  So what's sort of your response to that?
[45:16.040 --> 45:18.740]  It's like, hey, listen, most likely
[45:18.740 --> 45:19.720]  they're not going to come after you
[45:19.720 --> 45:20.880]  if you stay under the radar.
[45:20.880 --> 45:22.760]  I mean, is it because you were a public figure?
[45:22.760 --> 45:25.240]  Is it, people, that's been the biggest thing
[45:25.240 --> 45:26.080]  people have come to me and said,
[45:26.080 --> 45:28.200]  hey, man, I watched your first episode
[45:28.200 --> 45:30.440]  and even if everything he says is true,
[45:30.440 --> 45:31.720]  the IRS and the government's corrupt,
[45:31.720 --> 45:33.760]  so it doesn't matter if I have the law on my side
[45:33.760 --> 45:35.280]  because they're just going to lie.
[45:35.280 --> 45:36.900]  So why even risk it?
[45:38.540 --> 45:41.600]  Okay, do you remember the Iranian hostage crisis?
[45:41.600 --> 45:43.280]  Yeah, of course.
[45:43.280 --> 45:45.840]  Everywhere that Americans went,
[45:45.840 --> 45:48.200]  there was these posters everywhere
[45:48.200 --> 45:50.960]  and it was a picture of the Ayatollah Khomeini
[45:50.960 --> 45:55.960]  and there was a rifle reticle across his face, okay?
[45:56.040 --> 45:58.120]  I lived in Southern California at the time
[45:58.120 --> 46:00.160]  and this shit was posted everywhere.
[46:01.680 --> 46:06.680]  I very much imagine that starting probably about 95, 96,
[46:07.400 --> 46:11.480]  you could have walked into any of the offices,
[46:11.480 --> 46:13.960]  IRS enforcement offices,
[46:13.960 --> 46:16.360]  and you would have found a picture similar to that
[46:16.360 --> 46:18.160]  of me up on the wall.
[46:18.160 --> 46:21.740]  Certainly I was, I don't know where I would stand today,
[46:21.740 --> 46:24.000]  but certainly I was at that time.
[46:24.000 --> 46:27.320]  The FBI has their 10 most wanted list.
[46:27.320 --> 46:29.840]  I was certainly one of the 10 most wanted
[46:29.840 --> 46:32.640]  as far as the government's position
[46:32.640 --> 46:35.920]  on shutting me the hell up, okay?
[46:35.920 --> 46:40.760]  And so I was a target and I think we all know
[46:40.760 --> 46:42.960]  that the government treats people
[46:42.960 --> 46:46.440]  who are targets differently than they do the masses.
[46:46.440 --> 46:49.400]  As an example, I don't know how many tens of thousands
[46:49.400 --> 46:51.840]  of people have read Income Tax Shattering the Mist,
[46:51.840 --> 46:53.760]  but I do know from feedback I've gotten
[46:53.760 --> 46:55.680]  from people over the years,
[46:55.680 --> 46:57.800]  that literally thousands and thousands and thousands
[46:57.800 --> 46:59.840]  of people who've read it have used that material
[46:59.840 --> 47:02.680]  to safely walk away from the income tax.
[47:02.680 --> 47:06.640]  So how many of them have been accosted by the IRS?
[47:06.640 --> 47:10.960]  Well, if I were to judge that by the number of emails
[47:10.960 --> 47:12.320]  that I've received over the years saying,
[47:12.320 --> 47:14.720]  hey, I read Income Tax Shattering the Mist,
[47:14.720 --> 47:16.320]  as you mentioned, you read it three times.
[47:16.320 --> 47:18.560]  A lot of people that I know say the same thing
[47:18.560 --> 47:20.640]  to get every last little detail down.
[47:20.640 --> 47:23.520]  I read it three times, that's awesome, now I got it, okay?
[47:23.520 --> 47:26.240]  And then they safely exit the tax system.
[47:26.240 --> 47:28.520]  In the 15 years that Income Tax Shattering the Mist
[47:28.520 --> 47:33.040]  has been out, I have never received a single email
[47:33.040 --> 47:36.760]  from anybody saying, hey, I followed all of the law
[47:36.760 --> 47:38.400]  as you lay it out clearly,
[47:38.400 --> 47:42.080]  and now the IRS is kicking my ass or coming after me.
[47:42.080 --> 47:44.160]  I've never gotten that message.
[47:44.160 --> 47:47.000]  So in 15 years I've never received
[47:47.000 --> 47:48.320]  a single message like that.
[47:48.320 --> 47:52.480]  No, no, to be clear, I do get messages from people saying,
[47:55.000 --> 47:59.200]  I read your book and in 2017 I stopped filing.
[47:59.200 --> 48:02.240]  The IRS is after me for 2013, 14, 15.
[48:02.240 --> 48:05.800]  Okay, but that's unrelated to the information
[48:05.800 --> 48:07.960]  they got from Income Tax Shattering the Mist.
[48:09.560 --> 48:13.880]  So, you know, and these people who raise these objections,
[48:13.880 --> 48:15.000]  I think some are sincere.
[48:15.000 --> 48:17.000]  I think a minority of them are sincere.
[48:18.520 --> 48:20.240]  I think a lot of them,
[48:20.240 --> 48:23.080]  it's just the way of covering their cowardice.
[48:24.360 --> 48:26.200]  You know, oh, the government,
[48:26.200 --> 48:27.840]  they're gonna come after everybody.
[48:27.840 --> 48:30.160]  You can't fight City Hall, I'm telling you,
[48:30.160 --> 48:31.400]  you do this, you're getting fucked,
[48:31.400 --> 48:33.280]  you're going down, you're going to prison.
[48:33.280 --> 48:34.360]  All right, bitch.
[48:34.360 --> 48:36.720]  You know, what do you say to that kind of cunt?
[48:39.960 --> 48:41.080]  It's just cowardice.
[48:41.080 --> 48:44.480]  And then they put this supposed facade of intellect
[48:44.480 --> 48:45.600]  in front of it, you know.
[48:45.600 --> 48:46.920]  Oh, the system's corrupt.
[48:46.920 --> 48:49.240]  That's why I can't do what's right,
[48:49.240 --> 48:51.680]  because the system is to blame.
[48:51.680 --> 48:52.800]  Yeah, okay.
[48:52.800 --> 48:54.160]  Sour grapes, essentially.
[48:55.960 --> 48:57.000]  Yeah.
[48:57.000 --> 48:59.040]  Okay, understood.
[48:59.040 --> 49:00.560]  Yeah, I mean, there's data out there.
[49:01.480 --> 49:04.680]  That shows how many cases are actually tried
[49:04.680 --> 49:08.600]  due to not filing, and it's minuscule, right?
[49:08.600 --> 49:09.840]  You're talking about in the hundreds.
[49:09.840 --> 49:10.840]  Oh, yeah.
[49:10.840 --> 49:13.840]  So, I mean, if you're talking about,
[49:13.840 --> 49:15.480]  yeah, of however, 50 million.
[49:15.480 --> 49:17.000]  Yeah, in a nation of 334.
[49:17.000 --> 49:17.840]  300 million, yeah.
[49:17.840 --> 49:21.160]  Yeah, in a nation of 334 million Americans,
[49:21.160 --> 49:22.680]  they're not even publishing numbers anymore.
[49:22.680 --> 49:24.040]  That's how small it is.
[49:24.040 --> 49:27.120]  But when the last year that they published numbers
[49:27.160 --> 49:30.760]  for prosecution, I think it was like 225
[49:30.760 --> 49:33.120]  out of 334 million Americans.
[49:33.120 --> 49:36.080]  It's, your odds of getting struck by lightning
[49:36.080 --> 49:37.960]  several times are greater.
[49:37.960 --> 49:38.960]  That's what I keep hearing.
[49:38.960 --> 49:42.400]  Yeah, I mean, it's astronomically small.
[49:42.400 --> 49:45.320]  But be afraid, be a pussy.
[49:47.200 --> 49:48.800]  Well, while we're on the subject,
[49:48.800 --> 49:50.400]  I wanna throw, because these always are gonna come up,
[49:50.400 --> 49:51.960]  and I wanna make sure,
[49:51.960 --> 49:53.880]  we're not gonna do a comprehensive rundown
[49:53.880 --> 49:55.800]  of every single argument that's ever been brought up,
[49:55.800 --> 49:57.040]  because we'd be here all day.
[49:57.960 --> 49:59.920]  But I think we do a quick little rundown
[49:59.920 --> 50:02.760]  of some of the more high profile cases
[50:02.760 --> 50:04.840]  and some of the guys that flew too close to the sun
[50:04.840 --> 50:05.880]  but did things wrong.
[50:06.840 --> 50:10.040]  Obviously, I'll throw a couple of the names at you
[50:10.040 --> 50:13.320]  and in 30 to 60 seconds say,
[50:13.320 --> 50:15.600]  here's where they messed up, why this didn't work.
[50:15.600 --> 50:16.720]  Don't do what they did, right?
[50:16.720 --> 50:18.840]  First one is Irwin Schiff.
[50:18.840 --> 50:20.800]  How did that guy mess it up so badly?
[50:21.840 --> 50:24.520]  Irwin Schiff, first of all, I loved Irwin.
[50:24.560 --> 50:26.400]  He was the grandpappy of the tax honesty movement,
[50:26.400 --> 50:29.360]  in my view, but he was wrong, he was mistaken.
[50:29.360 --> 50:30.720]  And for instance, he said,
[50:30.720 --> 50:32.720]  there's no law anywhere that requires anyone
[50:32.720 --> 50:35.720]  to file an income tax return, and that's absolute nonsense.
[50:37.560 --> 50:42.520]  And then in his pursuance of being wrong,
[50:42.520 --> 50:45.080]  he encouraged other people not to file tax returns
[50:45.080 --> 50:46.760]  based on the premise,
[50:46.760 --> 50:50.400]  not that the tax had not been imposed upon them.
[50:50.400 --> 50:52.160]  He didn't say that.
[50:52.160 --> 50:54.320]  He said, there's no law anywhere in the tax code
[50:55.160 --> 50:57.080]  that requires anyone to file a tax return,
[50:57.080 --> 50:59.560]  which is manifestly nonsense, right?
[51:00.440 --> 51:03.720]  And so eventually, what is that?
[51:03.720 --> 51:08.120]  It's dangerous to be, anyway, he was wrong,
[51:08.120 --> 51:11.120]  and the government decided, but he had his huge following.
[51:11.120 --> 51:13.440]  So he became, like we talked about earlier for me,
[51:13.440 --> 51:14.640]  he became a target.
[51:14.640 --> 51:17.480]  But because he was wrong, another distinction
[51:17.480 --> 51:18.800]  that people should take stock of
[51:18.800 --> 51:21.400]  when considering reading income tax shattering the mist,
[51:21.400 --> 51:23.720]  because he was wrong, they went after him,
[51:23.720 --> 51:25.400]  convicted him, and put him in jail.
[51:28.000 --> 51:31.440]  So he was incorrect on his main stances,
[51:31.440 --> 51:34.800]  no one is required to file, which is patently not true.
[51:34.800 --> 51:36.360]  Correct. Okay.
[51:36.360 --> 51:38.720]  How about Wesley Snipes?
[51:38.720 --> 51:39.760]  He always comes up.
[51:40.680 --> 51:43.720]  Yeah, Wesley Snipes is an interesting case.
[51:43.720 --> 51:48.280]  He was following something called the 861 position.
[51:48.280 --> 51:49.440]  I have a chapter in my book called
[51:49.440 --> 51:50.920]  The Good, Bad, and the Mistaken,
[51:50.920 --> 51:53.120]  where I talk about positions
[51:53.120 --> 51:55.520]  that are either totally corrupt from day one,
[51:55.520 --> 51:58.240]  or they're just people who are confused and mistaken,
[51:58.240 --> 52:01.560]  and 861 is a case of confused and mistaken.
[52:01.560 --> 52:04.560]  People thought that section 861 of the code,
[52:04.560 --> 52:07.680]  and more specifically its regulations,
[52:07.680 --> 52:10.520]  were controlling concerning income tax, and they're not.
[52:12.040 --> 52:15.400]  And so actually, interesting story, I'll keep it short.
[52:15.400 --> 52:19.120]  After he'd been indicted, excuse me,
[52:19.240 --> 52:20.920]  Hollywood stars always have people.
[52:20.920 --> 52:22.200]  So his people reached out to me,
[52:22.200 --> 52:24.360]  and they asked me to be on his defense team.
[52:24.360 --> 52:26.080]  And I said, sure, I would love to.
[52:26.080 --> 52:28.600]  I said, you know, the thing that I would love most
[52:28.600 --> 52:31.440]  now that an indictment has been handed up
[52:31.440 --> 52:34.120]  is to have the government dismiss all the charges.
[52:34.120 --> 52:35.600]  What would that say, right?
[52:35.600 --> 52:39.360]  I said, but, and we can do that, we can make that happen,
[52:39.360 --> 52:44.160]  but we have to threaten to bring into court the real law,
[52:44.160 --> 52:46.520]  not this 861 nonsense.
[52:46.520 --> 52:49.200]  So if you're willing to give up 861
[52:49.200 --> 52:52.160]  and defend Wesley Snipes based on the law,
[52:52.160 --> 52:53.520]  I'm all in, we'll make it happen.
[52:53.520 --> 52:54.600]  The government will not,
[52:54.600 --> 52:56.000]  they will ask the court to dismiss,
[52:56.000 --> 52:57.000]  they will not take him to trial
[52:57.000 --> 52:58.960]  because they cannot afford to have the information
[52:58.960 --> 53:00.520]  entered into the public record.
[53:01.800 --> 53:06.360]  And they said, nope, 861 is the, this is,
[53:07.600 --> 53:09.560]  if not a quote, damn close.
[53:09.560 --> 53:12.600]  861 is the hill Wesley Snipes is prepared to die on.
[53:13.280 --> 53:14.120]  And he did.
[53:14.120 --> 53:15.680]  I said, okay, that's right.
[53:15.680 --> 53:16.880]  And we don't have the story ended,
[53:16.880 --> 53:19.480]  but I was like, okay, then I can't be on your team.
[53:19.480 --> 53:21.200]  I'm not going to help.
[53:21.200 --> 53:23.440]  I'm not going to help use a bogus argument, sorry.
[53:23.440 --> 53:24.280]  Right.
[53:25.040 --> 53:26.360]  Okay, yeah.
[53:27.320 --> 53:29.800]  Basically, they're applying the wrong,
[53:29.800 --> 53:30.640]  there was another one we brought up,
[53:30.640 --> 53:32.040]  and we talked briefly backstage
[53:32.040 --> 53:34.000]  and I'm not a super well versed on this one,
[53:34.000 --> 53:35.240]  but another one was USV Tedder.
[53:35.240 --> 53:39.280]  This was a 1983 case where he, you know,
[53:39.280 --> 53:41.400]  I think he A, represented himself
[53:42.320 --> 53:46.360]  for one, and then the multiple arguments
[53:46.360 --> 53:47.640]  that he made were all specious.
[53:47.640 --> 53:50.560]  There was, he claimed, I think brought against him,
[53:50.560 --> 53:52.000]  he claimed exempt on a W four,
[53:52.000 --> 53:53.760]  which they said that's unknowingly,
[53:53.760 --> 53:54.920]  that's committing fraud.
[53:55.960 --> 53:58.000]  Can you chat about that court case just a little bit
[53:58.000 --> 53:59.120]  and maybe what are some of the mistakes
[53:59.120 --> 54:00.800]  he made in his filings?
[54:01.720 --> 54:05.080]  So I can only speak sort of in an overview sense
[54:05.080 --> 54:08.000]  because I don't like have the notes with me
[54:08.000 --> 54:09.120]  on the Tedder case.
[54:09.320 --> 54:13.080]  Because the reason I say I don't have my notes
[54:13.080 --> 54:15.240]  is he made so many different arguments.
[54:15.240 --> 54:17.200]  I think it was like 13 different arguments
[54:17.200 --> 54:19.640]  he made at various points at trial.
[54:21.040 --> 54:24.760]  And every single one of them was specious.
[54:24.760 --> 54:28.240]  There was, I mean, and to his credit, I guess,
[54:28.240 --> 54:30.680]  some of them were like really novel arguments,
[54:30.680 --> 54:35.360]  like the certain aspects of how the government
[54:35.360 --> 54:38.280]  publishes requirements for certain forms,
[54:38.280 --> 54:41.480]  misled him, and therefore he was innocent
[54:41.480 --> 54:45.160]  because he was misled, which was kind of a novel argument
[54:45.160 --> 54:48.280]  and I sort of appreciated the novelty of it.
[54:48.280 --> 54:50.800]  But ultimately, none of them would stand the test
[54:50.800 --> 54:52.720]  of legal challenge and they didn't.
[54:54.480 --> 54:59.480]  And if at any time you wanted to do a show on Tedder,
[55:01.160 --> 55:02.480]  I would be willing to sit with you and your audience.
[55:02.480 --> 55:05.000]  Yeah, it probably needs its own show, yeah.
[55:05.000 --> 55:07.920]  Yeah, that's how many crazy arguments he made.
[55:08.560 --> 55:09.480]  And of course he got convicted.
[55:09.480 --> 55:12.240]  And his appeal was rejected.
[55:12.240 --> 55:14.080]  Right, I thought I saw one in there
[55:14.080 --> 55:17.880]  that one of his appellate points was,
[55:17.880 --> 55:21.840]  well, I sent a letter to the IRS asking them
[55:21.840 --> 55:24.720]  if I was required to file and they never got back to me.
[55:24.720 --> 55:26.560]  And so therefore, not guilty.
[55:26.560 --> 55:27.400]  It was something like that.
[55:27.400 --> 55:28.800]  It was just something so wild.
[55:30.280 --> 55:31.840]  That was one of the arguments, absolutely.
[55:31.840 --> 55:34.640]  It's like, so if I write to the agency
[55:34.640 --> 55:36.760]  and the agency doesn't write back,
[55:36.800 --> 55:39.680]  then that, his position.
[55:39.680 --> 55:41.360]  Well, it seemed to be what he was saying
[55:41.360 --> 55:42.360]  is if you don't get back to me,
[55:42.360 --> 55:44.080]  that ameliorates all the statutes,
[55:44.080 --> 55:46.200]  all the regulations, all the treasury decisions,
[55:46.200 --> 55:50.280]  all the law is ameliorated because you didn't write me back.
[55:50.280 --> 55:51.240]  How does that work?
[55:52.600 --> 55:55.160]  Yeah, because someone sent that to me
[55:55.160 --> 55:57.280]  and I looked at it and I had the exact same contention.
[55:57.280 --> 55:59.120]  I said, none of these arguments hold water
[55:59.120 --> 56:00.640]  in any shape, form or fashion.
[56:00.640 --> 56:02.960]  They're specious, they're crazy, this dude's nuts.
[56:03.960 --> 56:05.280]  And it was over like a small amount of money.
[56:05.280 --> 56:08.200]  It was like, well, back then, 20K was not a small amount,
[56:08.200 --> 56:10.680]  but I mean, this is 83, 15 years ago, I digress.
[56:11.840 --> 56:13.560]  So the last thing I kind of have here,
[56:13.560 --> 56:14.400]  a couple of things,
[56:14.400 --> 56:15.600]  and then we're gonna do a little bit of questions.
[56:15.600 --> 56:16.960]  So guys, if you have questions,
[56:16.960 --> 56:17.780]  if you wanna call in,
[56:17.780 --> 56:20.760]  the call-in link is pinned to the top of the chat.
[56:20.760 --> 56:23.600]  We're gonna kind of go over the reason I brought on Dave
[56:23.600 --> 56:26.120]  in the first place is because he put out a video
[56:26.120 --> 56:27.680]  about a week or so ago
[56:27.680 --> 56:31.080]  about the Supreme Court decision,
[56:31.080 --> 56:34.400]  Morbid US that was decided back this past June.
[56:34.400 --> 56:36.280]  And there's gonna be some legal jargon.
[56:36.280 --> 56:38.600]  So, Dave, take us there
[56:38.600 --> 56:40.280]  and guys try to keep up as much as possible.
[56:40.280 --> 56:43.800]  But, and we'll link your Rumble video
[56:43.800 --> 56:45.440]  to the description after this as well
[56:45.440 --> 56:47.040]  so people can go and watch that.
[56:47.040 --> 56:50.760]  But kind of in your own words and in your own terms,
[56:50.760 --> 56:53.640]  explain to the people why this decision is so monumental,
[56:53.640 --> 56:57.560]  what it does, what it says, what it affirms
[56:57.560 --> 57:00.200]  and sort of, just give us your 30,000 foot view
[57:00.200 --> 57:02.400]  on why it's important, what does it say,
[57:02.400 --> 57:04.240]  and then where do we kind of go from here?
[57:04.800 --> 57:05.640]  Okay.
[57:05.640 --> 57:09.240]  So it's more at Oaks V,
[57:12.880 --> 57:14.440]  the hell is the, the United States.
[57:14.440 --> 57:15.280]  Okay.
[57:15.280 --> 57:20.120]  So, and that's at Oaks is capital ET space capital UX
[57:20.120 --> 57:21.920]  if your audience wants to look at it.
[57:21.920 --> 57:26.520]  More at Oaks V United States.
[57:26.520 --> 57:27.400]  Okay.
[57:27.400 --> 57:29.480]  I'll put the PDF in the description afterwards too.
[57:29.480 --> 57:32.480]  My thoughts are spilling along here.
[57:32.480 --> 57:33.320]  Okay.
[57:33.320 --> 57:35.400]  So the big thing about the case that's covered in the media
[57:35.400 --> 57:37.720]  was the fact that the United States Supreme Court said
[57:37.720 --> 57:40.280]  if you are a shareholder, you're American,
[57:40.280 --> 57:42.280]  you're a resident or a citizen of this country
[57:42.280 --> 57:45.000]  and you're a shareholder in a foreign corporation,
[57:45.000 --> 57:47.320]  the government can tax your unrealized gains
[57:47.320 --> 57:49.680]  for your shares in the foreign corporation.
[57:49.680 --> 57:51.880]  That was splashed all over the media.
[57:51.880 --> 57:56.880]  But here's the words from page two of the decision.
[57:57.160 --> 58:00.040]  Here's the words that we want to focus on today.
[58:00.040 --> 58:04.160]  Taxes on income are indirect taxes
[58:04.160 --> 58:05.800]  and the 16th amendment confirms
[58:05.800 --> 58:09.520]  that taxes on income need not be apportioned.
[58:09.520 --> 58:10.360]  Okay.
[58:10.360 --> 58:14.440]  So again, I'm going to try and burn through this quickly.
[58:14.440 --> 58:16.960]  So all of this is explained by the way
[58:16.960 --> 58:19.080]  in income tax shattering the mess.
[58:19.080 --> 58:21.400]  What the court said here in Moore,
[58:21.400 --> 58:24.000]  the court said back in 1916 in Bruce Schaber.
[58:24.000 --> 58:26.880]  So it's a, it's a restatement almost a hundred,
[58:26.880 --> 58:28.440]  well more than a hundred years later
[58:28.440 --> 58:30.200]  of what the court said in Bruce Schaber.
[58:30.200 --> 58:33.080]  And I'm thrilled the Supreme Court said it in 2024.
[58:33.080 --> 58:36.400]  So in the constitution, the government,
[58:36.400 --> 58:37.480]  the federal government is allowed
[58:37.480 --> 58:40.040]  to impose two forms of taxation,
[58:40.040 --> 58:43.520]  a direct tax and an indirect tax.
[58:43.520 --> 58:48.520]  So a direct tax is a tax upon, I guess the best,
[58:49.480 --> 58:51.240]  the court said persons or property,
[58:51.240 --> 58:53.320]  but I'm going to say upon the exercise of a right,
[58:53.320 --> 58:54.480]  that's a direct tax.
[58:54.480 --> 58:55.320]  Okay.
[58:56.280 --> 58:59.720]  And I think it's enough for the purpose of this show
[58:59.720 --> 59:01.600]  to say, I'm going to say it now
[59:01.600 --> 59:04.320]  and the court also said it in the decision,
[59:04.320 --> 59:07.040]  Congress has never imposed a direct tax
[59:07.040 --> 59:09.000]  in the entire history of the United States.
[59:09.000 --> 59:10.760]  So because Congress has never done that,
[59:10.760 --> 59:12.920]  we can take that and move it right off the agenda.
[59:12.920 --> 59:14.120]  We don't need to talk about that.
[59:14.120 --> 59:17.560]  That leaves the other category of an indirect tax.
[59:17.560 --> 59:19.320]  Now, according to the constitution,
[59:19.320 --> 59:21.880]  there are three forms of indirect tax,
[59:21.880 --> 59:26.360]  imposts, duties and excises.
[59:26.360 --> 59:31.360]  So the in Bruce Shaver, the Supreme Court said,
[59:32.800 --> 59:35.680]  the income tax is an excise tax.
[59:37.080 --> 59:40.600]  So you've got to keep in mind indirect tax
[59:40.600 --> 59:43.160]  and then there are three versions down here
[59:43.160 --> 59:45.360]  of which the Supreme Court has said
[59:45.360 --> 59:49.200]  that the particular flavor of income tax is an excise.
[59:49.600 --> 59:51.240]  So excise is an indirect.
[59:52.440 --> 59:54.360]  So what's an excise tax?
[59:54.360 --> 59:56.400]  Well, according to the federal courts,
[59:56.400 --> 01:00:01.400]  an excise tax is synonymous with a privilege tax.
[01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:04.200]  Say it has the same meaning.
[01:00:04.200 --> 01:00:06.480]  When you say excise tax,
[01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:08.640]  you mean it's a tax upon the exercise of a privilege.
[01:00:08.640 --> 01:00:09.480]  And by the way,
[01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:12.400]  that means a government granted privilege.
[01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:17.400]  So we have the Supreme Court in 2024 saying,
[01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:22.040]  taxes on income are indirect taxes.
[01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:24.400]  Impost duties, excises,
[01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:27.240]  and the court has already said they're an excise.
[01:00:27.240 --> 01:00:28.880]  And the courts have already said an excise
[01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:30.360]  is a privilege tax.
[01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:33.280]  So let's take the guy who goes to work
[01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:34.920]  and I don't know, say he's a welder, okay?
[01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:36.440]  American citizen goes in,
[01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:41.440]  he spends his day welding things up and he gets paid.
[01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:45.480]  He uses that money to sustain himself and his family.
[01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:48.600]  Where's the government granted privilege?
[01:00:50.040 --> 01:00:54.000]  Yeah, because the Supreme Court in June of 2024
[01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:58.000]  just said there has to be a government privilege.
[01:00:58.920 --> 01:00:59.760]  Okay.
[01:01:01.520 --> 01:01:03.000]  Now it's not any government privilege
[01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:05.280]  because somebody might, one of your listeners,
[01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:06.920]  your viewers might say something like,
[01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:09.640]  well, you know, I'm an interstate trucker
[01:01:09.640 --> 01:01:12.280]  and I have a federal license for that.
[01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:14.680]  So that's a government granted privilege.
[01:01:14.720 --> 01:01:15.960]  No, that's a government granted privilege.
[01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:18.000]  No, no, no, no, no, it's not any privilege.
[01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:21.360]  It's only the privilege specified in the tax code.
[01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:24.080]  Subtitling, excuse me.
[01:01:24.080 --> 01:01:24.920]  So-
[01:01:24.920 --> 01:01:26.080]  An example of that, Dave,
[01:01:26.080 --> 01:01:28.440]  would be like selling alcohol or tobacco
[01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:29.440]  or controlled substances.
[01:01:29.440 --> 01:01:32.600]  Like what's an example of a government granted privilege?
[01:01:34.640 --> 01:01:36.760]  Well, you just mentioned it, distilling alcohol,
[01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:38.320]  distributing alcohol,
[01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:42.560]  importing goods into the United States.
[01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:46.680]  The tariffs are a form of taxation.
[01:01:46.680 --> 01:01:49.920]  And the court said about indirect taxes
[01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:52.920]  that they are upon inactivity.
[01:01:52.920 --> 01:01:55.680]  And one of the other things the court said about,
[01:01:57.800 --> 01:02:00.160]  in the Bruce Shaver Court, not the Moore Court,
[01:02:00.160 --> 01:02:02.800]  the Bruce Shaver Court said that an indirect tax
[01:02:02.800 --> 01:02:07.800]  lacks the absolute requirement to pay.
[01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:10.440]  Okay, what the court meant by that?
[01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:12.080]  And I'm paraphrasing.
[01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:15.200]  I don't know if I have it in my notes here.
[01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:18.320]  No, I don't, sorry.
[01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:20.440]  But that's essentially what the court said,
[01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:24.280]  that there's an unavoidable demand for payment.
[01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:27.200]  What the court meant by that is for these excise taxes,
[01:02:27.200 --> 01:02:29.160]  for these indirect taxes,
[01:02:29.160 --> 01:02:30.720]  if you don't wanna pay the tax,
[01:02:30.720 --> 01:02:32.680]  don't engage in the activity.
[01:02:32.680 --> 01:02:36.680]  So if you don't wanna pay the tax on distilling spirits,
[01:02:36.680 --> 01:02:37.920]  don't distill spirits.
[01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:39.400]  You don't wanna pay the tariff
[01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:41.960]  on importing goods into the United States.
[01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:44.080]  Don't import goods into the United States.
[01:02:44.080 --> 01:02:46.120]  However, anything that you would have to do
[01:02:46.120 --> 01:02:48.600]  for your survival, okay,
[01:02:48.600 --> 01:02:51.760]  that allows you to eat and breathe
[01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:55.560]  and be sheltered and have clothing,
[01:02:55.560 --> 01:02:58.560]  these are all things such tax that would be a direct tax.
[01:02:58.560 --> 01:03:00.720]  Now, here's an interesting point
[01:03:00.720 --> 01:03:04.200]  that flows from both Bruce Shaver in 1916
[01:03:04.200 --> 01:03:06.240]  and Moore in 2024.
[01:03:06.240 --> 01:03:11.240]  And that is, and this is specifically stated
[01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:12.840]  in Bruce Shaver.
[01:03:14.120 --> 01:03:15.800]  Now, here's the concept.
[01:03:17.440 --> 01:03:19.800]  I go out and do whatever.
[01:03:19.800 --> 01:03:22.600]  Let's say I'm gonna, my neighbor wants a ditch dug,
[01:03:22.600 --> 01:03:25.320]  but he's old and unhealthy and can't do it.
[01:03:25.320 --> 01:03:26.160]  So he says, Dave,
[01:03:26.160 --> 01:03:28.320]  will you dig this ditch across my property?
[01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:29.440]  And I say, sure.
[01:03:29.440 --> 01:03:30.720]  And he says, how much do you wanna sell?
[01:03:30.720 --> 01:03:31.840]  Charge you a grand.
[01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:33.080]  She says, good deal.
[01:03:33.080 --> 01:03:34.600]  So I go out there and I labor
[01:03:34.600 --> 01:03:36.160]  and I dig this ditch across this thing.
[01:03:36.160 --> 01:03:39.720]  And at the end, he gives me a thousand dollars.
[01:03:40.560 --> 01:03:43.960]  Now, I gave him something, yes, he has a ditch,
[01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:48.360]  which he and I both valued at a thousand dollars, okay?
[01:03:48.360 --> 01:03:49.760]  So he's got a thousand dollar ditch
[01:03:49.760 --> 01:03:52.800]  and I've got a thousand dollars in Federal Reserve notes.
[01:03:52.800 --> 01:03:57.800]  So was there profit or gain or was there an equal exchange?
[01:03:59.240 --> 01:04:01.960]  Nevertheless, that point aside,
[01:04:03.040 --> 01:04:04.840]  when I take that money he hands me
[01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:08.240]  and I walk away and I sit down in my car,
[01:04:08.240 --> 01:04:12.120]  what I'm holding in my hands is my property.
[01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:18.920]  And remember, the court said that a direct tax,
[01:04:20.720 --> 01:04:23.760]  the one that's never been imposed in this country's history
[01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:26.200]  is on property.
[01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:33.000]  So for somebody to say, we're taxing your income,
[01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:35.200]  that would become a direct tax,
[01:04:35.200 --> 01:04:38.200]  requiring apportionment throughout the 50 states
[01:04:38.200 --> 01:04:40.240]  as for the constitution.
[01:04:40.240 --> 01:04:43.200]  So we know right there and then anybody
[01:04:43.200 --> 01:04:45.760]  who's rational logical, they know right then and there,
[01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:48.120]  the tax is not upon the income.
[01:04:48.120 --> 01:04:50.920]  The tax is upon the exercise of a privilege
[01:04:52.240 --> 01:04:57.240]  and the amount of income that a taxpayer,
[01:04:58.560 --> 01:04:59.520]  so we know who that is now right
[01:04:59.520 --> 01:05:01.800]  from earlier in the conversation.
[01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:05.000]  The amount of income the taxpayer received
[01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:10.000]  is used as a yardstick, as a gauge
[01:05:10.120 --> 01:05:14.800]  to determine the value that that taxpayer received
[01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:16.520]  from exercising the privilege.
[01:05:16.520 --> 01:05:18.480]  In the case of the income tax,
[01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:22.000]  unlike distilling spirits, which was an earlier example,
[01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:23.800]  in reference to the income tax,
[01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:27.520]  the privilege was receiving US source income
[01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:31.960]  to a non-residential and foreign corporation.
[01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:34.040]  That is the privilege.
[01:05:34.040 --> 01:05:38.960]  And so the person who exercises the privilege
[01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:41.480]  and at the end of the year, they have a million dollars
[01:05:41.480 --> 01:05:44.400]  in revenue from that, is going to pay more in tax
[01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:47.160]  than the person who exercises the exact same privilege
[01:05:47.160 --> 01:05:49.240]  and earns $250,000.
[01:05:50.520 --> 01:05:52.680]  Because the guy with the million dollars in revenue,
[01:05:52.680 --> 01:05:57.680]  the privilege was worth more.
[01:05:58.960 --> 01:06:01.720]  And so the government imposes more of a tax.
[01:06:01.720 --> 01:06:04.000]  The rate remains the same, but because he has more,
[01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:07.040]  well, more or less the same,
[01:06:07.040 --> 01:06:10.800]  but because he has more revenue, he has to pay more tax.
[01:06:13.680 --> 01:06:14.520]  Got it.
[01:06:14.520 --> 01:06:16.680]  But it is still, the tax is still upon the exercise
[01:06:16.680 --> 01:06:19.320]  of the privilege, not upon the income.
[01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:21.400]  And that's a crucial thing to understand.
[01:06:21.400 --> 01:06:24.240]  And working in the United States, earning a living
[01:06:24.240 --> 01:06:26.440]  for your own survival, owning property,
[01:06:26.440 --> 01:06:27.920]  those are inherent rights.
[01:06:27.920 --> 01:06:28.880]  Those are not a privilege
[01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:30.480]  that the government grants upon you.
[01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:32.320]  The reason it's a privilege for a non-resident alien,
[01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:33.760]  because you don't have a right to be here,
[01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:35.240]  you don't have a right to make money here,
[01:06:35.240 --> 01:06:37.320]  that's something that's granted to you
[01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:40.840]  because of your non-natural born citizen status, essentially.
[01:06:41.920 --> 01:06:42.760]  Correct.
[01:06:42.760 --> 01:06:43.680]  Okay.
[01:06:43.680 --> 01:06:45.520]  Now, how does that apply?
[01:06:45.520 --> 01:06:47.160]  So if I have a right to own property,
[01:06:47.160 --> 01:06:49.480]  and this is kind of a two-parter,
[01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:51.360]  but we live in the age of crypto,
[01:06:51.360 --> 01:06:52.800]  a lot of guys are into Bitcoin
[01:06:52.800 --> 01:06:54.400]  and they're worried about their capital gains
[01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:55.960]  at the end of the year.
[01:06:55.960 --> 01:06:57.600]  And as far as I understood it,
[01:06:57.600 --> 01:06:59.440]  and I think that was kind of mentioned by you,
[01:06:59.440 --> 01:07:02.440]  is that even a profit, even if I make a profit,
[01:07:02.680 --> 01:07:03.800]  that's a right, right?
[01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:05.200]  That's my property.
[01:07:05.200 --> 01:07:06.600]  Can you kind of distill that down
[01:07:06.600 --> 01:07:11.080]  for guys that maybe have sort of these bags of crypto
[01:07:11.080 --> 01:07:12.680]  and they're worried about having to report that
[01:07:12.680 --> 01:07:13.640]  every single year?
[01:07:13.640 --> 01:07:15.440]  What does that kind of look like in terms of,
[01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:16.920]  this is my property and a profit,
[01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:18.560]  it's still mine to hold and own?
[01:07:20.080 --> 01:07:23.240]  Okay, so rather than, we'll come back around to crypto,
[01:07:23.240 --> 01:07:26.160]  but I want to use an example everybody can relate to.
[01:07:26.160 --> 01:07:27.680]  And that would be real property.
[01:07:27.680 --> 01:07:29.000]  So let's say a person goes out
[01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:31.120]  and they buy a piece of real property
[01:07:31.120 --> 01:07:33.600]  and they pay $400,000 for the piece of real property.
[01:07:33.600 --> 01:07:35.240]  They sit on it for several years
[01:07:35.240 --> 01:07:37.720]  and now it's appraised at $800,000.
[01:07:37.720 --> 01:07:40.680]  So they decide, okay, they sell the property, boom.
[01:07:40.680 --> 01:07:42.040]  So now they have $800,000.
[01:07:42.040 --> 01:07:43.440]  So here's the way this works.
[01:07:44.680 --> 01:07:46.920]  For somebody like me, who knows what the law says,
[01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:47.960]  knows that I'm not a person
[01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:50.200]  upon whom Congress has imposed a tax.
[01:07:50.200 --> 01:07:53.200]  I invested $400,000 of my property
[01:07:54.520 --> 01:07:56.540]  into another form of property.
[01:07:57.460 --> 01:07:59.380]  Then after several years,
[01:07:59.380 --> 01:08:01.460]  I sold that form of property
[01:08:02.380 --> 01:08:06.620]  for $800,000 of my property.
[01:08:08.580 --> 01:08:13.580]  So because the tax code subtitling has no bearing on me,
[01:08:17.300 --> 01:08:19.680]  all I have is $400,000 in profit.
[01:08:21.020 --> 01:08:24.460]  Now, for the American who's brainwashed
[01:08:24.460 --> 01:08:28.580]  and thinks that he owes the income tax,
[01:08:28.580 --> 01:08:32.860]  he doesn't have $400,000 in property, additional property.
[01:08:32.860 --> 01:08:36.020]  He has $400,000 in something called capital gains.
[01:08:38.980 --> 01:08:42.020]  And capital gains, as you know, tax differently.
[01:08:42.020 --> 01:08:47.020]  So it's really a question of knowledge.
[01:08:47.140 --> 01:08:48.340]  It's as simple as that.
[01:08:48.340 --> 01:08:51.420]  For somebody like me, there are no capital gains.
[01:08:51.420 --> 01:08:56.000]  And the same principle applies to crypto.
[01:08:56.000 --> 01:09:01.000]  There's nothing about crypto that changes,
[01:09:04.620 --> 01:09:05.700]  I'm sorry, I'm not,
[01:09:07.140 --> 01:09:09.660]  the lingo that's used in the crypto world,
[01:09:09.660 --> 01:09:10.860]  I'm not familiar with that.
[01:09:10.860 --> 01:09:13.980]  So what is it called, your wallet?
[01:09:13.980 --> 01:09:14.820]  What you got in your wallet?
[01:09:14.820 --> 01:09:16.500]  Is that- Your wallet, yeah, sure.
[01:09:16.500 --> 01:09:17.420]  Like an exchange, you know,
[01:09:17.420 --> 01:09:19.140]  I go to an exchange like Coinbase
[01:09:19.140 --> 01:09:21.420]  and I buy $1,000 worth of Bitcoin.
[01:09:21.420 --> 01:09:23.420]  And now that Bitcoin, you know,
[01:09:23.420 --> 01:09:25.940]  transfers from my debit card or my bank account.
[01:09:25.940 --> 01:09:27.780]  And now on that exchange,
[01:09:27.780 --> 01:09:32.580]  it shows my portfolio essentially $1,000 worth of Bitcoin.
[01:09:32.580 --> 01:09:35.100]  And the value will fluctuate as Bitcoin rises and falls.
[01:09:35.100 --> 01:09:38.380]  But essentially I've paid for, with US cash,
[01:09:38.380 --> 01:09:40.220]  $1,000 worth of Bitcoin.
[01:09:41.220 --> 01:09:46.100]  Right, so that $1,000 worth of Bitcoin is your property.
[01:09:46.620 --> 01:09:50.220]  And as it appreciates,
[01:09:50.220 --> 01:09:52.940]  just like the real estate we talked about,
[01:09:52.940 --> 01:09:57.060]  as it appreciates, you simply have more property.
[01:09:58.100 --> 01:10:00.720]  So should somebody choose to cash out,
[01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:02.500]  we'll use your $1,000 example,
[01:10:02.500 --> 01:10:04.940]  let's say they're up to $10,000.
[01:10:04.940 --> 01:10:07.220]  So they choose to cash out.
[01:10:07.220 --> 01:10:12.220]  For somebody like me, it would be $9,000 more property.
[01:10:12.500 --> 01:10:15.460]  I was, I used my brain, I was intelligent,
[01:10:15.460 --> 01:10:16.820]  there of course with crypto,
[01:10:16.820 --> 01:10:20.100]  there's some timing and luck and so forth, right?
[01:10:20.100 --> 01:10:22.900]  But I chose my investment wisely.
[01:10:22.900 --> 01:10:27.420]  So it would seem I have $9,000 in additional property.
[01:10:27.420 --> 01:10:28.580]  Serious, full stop.
[01:10:29.420 --> 01:10:31.180]  For the person who doesn't read,
[01:10:31.180 --> 01:10:33.060]  as an example, income tax shatteriness,
[01:10:33.060 --> 01:10:36.220]  who doesn't do any research, who doesn't read the law,
[01:10:36.220 --> 01:10:39.980]  that person is going to think that they have $9,000
[01:10:39.980 --> 01:10:43.140]  in capital gain, on which to pay capital gains tax.
[01:10:43.140 --> 01:10:44.800]  That's how they're going to see it.
[01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:47.120]  Because they don't understand that,
[01:10:47.120 --> 01:10:49.360]  and I should say, we talk about subtitle A,
[01:10:49.360 --> 01:10:51.000]  the income taxes have been imposed
[01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:53.460]  on foreign persons with US first income.
[01:10:54.480 --> 01:10:56.880]  People right now who are in crypto may be thinking,
[01:10:59.040 --> 01:11:01.940]  yeah, but what about this other thing?
[01:11:01.940 --> 01:11:03.800]  I literally have a video I put out
[01:11:03.800 --> 01:11:06.760]  called the doctrine of missing parts.
[01:11:06.760 --> 01:11:09.720]  And that's where people who want to defend
[01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:13.560]  the income tax system as their brainwashed brain perceives it,
[01:11:13.560 --> 01:11:17.440]  they will say there's something else somewhere else.
[01:11:17.440 --> 01:11:19.720]  And then when you say, oh, great.
[01:11:19.720 --> 01:11:21.080]  You know, maybe I'm human.
[01:11:21.080 --> 01:11:21.920]  Maybe I made a mistake.
[01:11:21.920 --> 01:11:23.080]  Come on, show it to me.
[01:11:23.080 --> 01:11:24.560]  Where is that something else?
[01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:26.640]  You know, they're like, go fuck yourself.
[01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:28.680]  That's they don't know.
[01:11:28.680 --> 01:11:29.680]  And it's sort of the same way,
[01:11:29.680 --> 01:11:31.040]  I think with people with like crypto,
[01:11:31.040 --> 01:11:33.360]  when I say it's not,
[01:11:33.360 --> 01:11:35.200]  it's not an increased subject to capital gains,
[01:11:35.200 --> 01:11:36.400]  it's just your property.
[01:11:37.320 --> 01:11:42.400]  I think it's hard for a lot of people to say that's true.
[01:11:42.480 --> 01:11:43.840]  That makes sense.
[01:11:43.840 --> 01:11:45.640]  Because they think there's gotta be something else
[01:11:45.640 --> 01:11:50.240]  somewhere else, but there isn't.
[01:11:50.240 --> 01:11:52.040]  And by the way, when I say this somewhere,
[01:11:52.040 --> 01:11:53.920]  something else somewhere else,
[01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:57.920]  I have talked to everyone from people
[01:11:57.920 --> 01:12:00.520]  in payroll department concerning payroll holding,
[01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:05.520]  people in HR, CFOs, COOs, CEOs, tax attorneys,
[01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:08.360]  you name it.
[01:12:08.360 --> 01:12:11.940]  I have talked to them for the last 30 years about this.
[01:12:12.400 --> 01:12:17.400]  And 99% of them say,
[01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:21.400]  well, there's gotta be something else somewhere else
[01:12:21.400 --> 01:12:22.800]  over a 30 year period.
[01:12:22.800 --> 01:12:25.400]  And when I say to them, great,
[01:12:25.400 --> 01:12:27.720]  what is it and where can I find it?
[01:12:29.200 --> 01:12:30.280]  They have nothing to say.
[01:12:30.280 --> 01:12:32.760]  There is nothing else nowhere else.
[01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:34.200]  So for the people in crypto,
[01:12:34.200 --> 01:12:35.840]  I would say read income tax shattering the myths
[01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:38.200]  and conduct yourself appropriately.
[01:12:38.200 --> 01:12:41.520]  Now let's talk about a tangential issue if you don't mind.
[01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:42.480]  I know you're the host,
[01:12:42.480 --> 01:12:43.720]  you're supposed to be setting the pace.
[01:12:43.720 --> 01:12:45.160]  Oh, please.
[01:12:45.160 --> 01:12:47.240]  There are a lot of these exchanges,
[01:12:47.240 --> 01:12:49.560]  they want you to sign forms W9,
[01:12:49.560 --> 01:12:51.600]  they wanna provide taxpayer numbers.
[01:12:51.600 --> 01:12:53.760]  And there are ways to address that.
[01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:58.000]  And you do not wanna just do that and leave that hanging.
[01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:00.120]  So for instance, let's say an exchange says,
[01:13:00.120 --> 01:13:02.320]  we need you to file this form,
[01:13:02.320 --> 01:13:05.560]  to sign this form W9 with us, okay?
[01:13:05.560 --> 01:13:10.360]  So I'm gonna guess the vast majority of your audience
[01:13:10.360 --> 01:13:15.360]  thinks that a form W9 is simply the way it's done.
[01:13:15.480 --> 01:13:17.640]  If I'm doing business with company A
[01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:19.920]  and company A wants to pay me some money,
[01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:21.800]  they're gonna say, we need a W9
[01:13:21.800 --> 01:13:23.200]  so we can pay you that money.
[01:13:25.080 --> 01:13:29.000]  But they've never actually gone and read anything
[01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:32.640]  about what form W9 means in law.
[01:13:32.640 --> 01:13:34.840]  It's just sort of this socialized thing.
[01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:38.840]  Oh, they're gonna pay me, I need to fill out a W9, okay?
[01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:42.560]  So here's what a form W9 really means.
[01:13:42.560 --> 01:13:44.680]  The person who puts their name at the top,
[01:13:44.680 --> 01:13:46.320]  puts their taxpayer identification number
[01:13:46.320 --> 01:13:48.440]  and signs it under penalty perjury.
[01:13:48.440 --> 01:13:51.160]  What they're swearing to under penalty perjury is
[01:13:52.320 --> 01:13:54.560]  that they are an American citizen or resident.
[01:13:56.000 --> 01:13:59.520]  And the payment that they have received
[01:13:59.520 --> 01:14:04.160]  or are going to receive is US source income
[01:14:04.160 --> 01:14:06.000]  belonging to a foreign person.
[01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:10.560]  That is to what they are attesting when they sign that.
[01:14:11.600 --> 01:14:13.160]  And I'm gonna guess, you know,
[01:14:13.160 --> 01:14:15.600]  you're gonna line up 100,000 Americans
[01:14:15.600 --> 01:14:17.720]  and not one of them would know that.
[01:14:17.720 --> 01:14:19.680]  It's just the way it's done.
[01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:22.920]  So obviously, since we talked about the tax
[01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:25.520]  has been imposed upon foreign persons
[01:14:25.520 --> 01:14:26.880]  with US source income,
[01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:29.920]  and we talked about that the domestic agent,
[01:14:29.920 --> 01:14:32.320]  the otherwise known tax law as a US person,
[01:14:33.440 --> 01:14:35.080]  has to deduct and withhold the tax
[01:14:35.080 --> 01:14:37.280]  before they send the money onto the foreigner.
[01:14:39.640 --> 01:14:42.680]  You don't wanna leave a legal presumption
[01:14:42.680 --> 01:14:46.080]  to which you have sworn under penalty of perjury
[01:14:46.080 --> 01:14:48.600]  that the money you received isn't really yours.
[01:14:48.600 --> 01:14:49.760]  It's the foreign guys.
[01:14:50.800 --> 01:14:54.360]  So, yeah, there are ways to cope with that,
[01:14:54.360 --> 01:14:55.200]  to deal with that.
[01:14:55.200 --> 01:14:57.440]  That'd be way too lengthy to get into here.
[01:14:57.440 --> 01:15:02.280]  But going back to the main point that you asked about
[01:15:02.280 --> 01:15:03.520]  is just your property.
[01:15:03.520 --> 01:15:04.800]  It's not capital gains.
[01:15:05.640 --> 01:15:07.840]  It's just, get an education, you'll know it.
[01:15:09.040 --> 01:15:09.960]  Good stuff.
[01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:11.840]  Guys, I'm gonna run the ad real, real quick.
[01:15:11.840 --> 01:15:13.200]  Guys that have questions, wanna call in,
[01:15:13.200 --> 01:15:14.240]  come in the backstage here.
[01:15:14.240 --> 01:15:16.400]  We've got one person already waiting.
[01:15:16.400 --> 01:15:17.440]  I don't see any super chats.
[01:15:17.440 --> 01:15:18.280]  I'll try to go back through.
[01:15:18.280 --> 01:15:22.640]  And I know there's a question here about lock-in letters
[01:15:22.640 --> 01:15:27.360]  and tactics the IRS sort of use for your scare tactics.
[01:15:27.360 --> 01:15:29.080]  But I'm gonna run the ad really quick.
[01:15:29.080 --> 01:15:30.720]  We'll be back in about a minute and a half.
[01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:32.120]  So click the link at the top of the chat
[01:15:32.120 --> 01:15:33.600]  if you wanna come in.
[01:15:33.600 --> 01:15:34.440]  If you have a question,
[01:15:35.080 --> 01:15:35.920]  if you have a disagreement,
[01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:37.320]  I know you guys are kind of arguing with each other
[01:15:37.320 --> 01:15:38.160]  in the chat.
[01:15:38.160 --> 01:15:39.720]  But if you wanna ask Dave directly,
[01:15:39.720 --> 01:15:41.120]  feel free to come backstage.
[01:15:41.120 --> 01:15:42.680]  All right, let's get on with the show.
[01:15:42.680 --> 01:15:44.120]  So we got a couple of guys here backstage.
[01:15:44.120 --> 01:15:45.640]  Again, if you guys wanna ask questions,
[01:15:45.640 --> 01:15:47.800]  I'm just gonna go and bring folks up
[01:15:47.800 --> 01:15:49.640]  in the order they popped back.
[01:15:49.640 --> 01:15:51.800]  So we have, and most of you guys are muted.
[01:15:51.800 --> 01:15:54.000]  So you'll have to come off mute when we bring you up.
[01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:58.040]  But we have Kushagra, you're live.
[01:15:58.040 --> 01:16:00.640]  Just need to come off mute so you can ask your question.
[01:16:04.720 --> 01:16:06.280]  Going once, going twice.
[01:16:06.280 --> 01:16:07.720]  Gotta come off mute.
[01:16:07.720 --> 01:16:08.560]  Here we go.
[01:16:10.120 --> 01:16:11.360]  Hello, am I audible?
[01:16:11.360 --> 01:16:12.840]  Hey man, you got a question?
[01:16:13.680 --> 01:16:15.920]  Yeah, hello, am I audible?
[01:16:17.120 --> 01:16:18.880]  Sorry, say that again.
[01:16:18.880 --> 01:16:19.720]  Am I audible?
[01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:21.760]  Yes, we can hear you.
[01:16:22.760 --> 01:16:26.600]  Yeah, so I just have one question.
[01:16:26.600 --> 01:16:28.120]  It's a pretty basic question.
[01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:34.000]  It's that when you say income tax,
[01:16:35.440 --> 01:16:38.440]  I live in India and the thing is
[01:16:38.440 --> 01:16:40.240]  the taxes here are pretty high.
[01:16:40.240 --> 01:16:42.880]  So what other investable options available
[01:16:42.880 --> 01:16:46.720]  for people like us offshore accounts
[01:16:46.720 --> 01:16:50.240]  and stuff like that that would allow me to save more money?
[01:16:50.240 --> 01:16:53.720]  Well, so this is about the US federal income tax.
[01:16:53.720 --> 01:16:57.400]  So this is not about giving financial advice
[01:16:58.480 --> 01:16:59.320]  or anything like that.
[01:16:59.320 --> 01:17:02.600]  This is, if you're a US citizen or you're living in the US,
[01:17:02.600 --> 01:17:04.720]  this is about the US income tax.
[01:17:04.720 --> 01:17:08.560]  So if you have any questions around that, then great.
[01:17:08.560 --> 01:17:12.240]  All right, so if let's say I already have an account
[01:17:12.240 --> 01:17:15.560]  in the United States and I wish to manage my taxes
[01:17:15.560 --> 01:17:19.960]  in a way that, manage my finances in a way to avoid taxes.
[01:17:19.960 --> 01:17:22.800]  So what are some of the steps that I can take
[01:17:22.800 --> 01:17:24.920]  to reduce that, like trust funds and stuff like that?
[01:17:24.920 --> 01:17:27.720]  I've read about it, but I'm a bit scared
[01:17:27.720 --> 01:17:29.320]  to follow up on that.
[01:17:30.320 --> 01:17:32.840]  Dave, do you wanna take that?
[01:17:32.840 --> 01:17:35.720]  Sure, thank you for the question.
[01:17:38.800 --> 01:17:42.280]  Provided that the work you do takes place
[01:17:42.280 --> 01:17:45.800]  in the United States, you are a taxpayer.
[01:17:45.800 --> 01:17:47.200]  There's no way around that.
[01:17:47.200 --> 01:17:51.440]  So when a taxpayer asks me about ways
[01:17:51.440 --> 01:17:54.120]  to minimize their tax obligation,
[01:17:54.120 --> 01:17:58.120]  my advice is to speak to a talented financial advisor
[01:17:58.120 --> 01:17:59.840]  or a certified public accountant.
[01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:04.080]  I am not the person who is qualified, frankly,
[01:18:04.080 --> 01:18:09.080]  to answer questions about how a person who is a taxpayer,
[01:18:09.360 --> 01:18:12.720]  all the various mechanisms that can be used
[01:18:12.720 --> 01:18:16.120]  to reduce a legitimate taxpayer's tax burden.
[01:18:16.120 --> 01:18:18.080]  I'm not the guy for that.
[01:18:18.080 --> 01:18:19.240]  All right, all right.
[01:18:20.200 --> 01:18:22.360]  Okay, that's the only question I had.
[01:18:22.360 --> 01:18:23.200]  Thank you.
[01:18:23.200 --> 01:18:24.040]  Thank you for addressing it.
[01:18:24.040 --> 01:18:26.160]  Cool, thanks man, no worries.
[01:18:26.160 --> 01:18:27.560]  All right, let's bring up.
[01:18:28.480 --> 01:18:31.080]  Friend of the program, Algo Cowboy, you're on live.
[01:18:31.080 --> 01:18:32.040]  How we doing, man?
[01:18:32.040 --> 01:18:33.640]  Good, how you guys doing?
[01:18:33.640 --> 01:18:35.120]  Good brother, what's your question?
[01:18:35.120 --> 01:18:38.960]  Well, Dave, I've been listening to a few of your recent shows
[01:18:38.960 --> 01:18:40.760]  and really liked the work.
[01:18:40.760 --> 01:18:43.640]  Now my questions around, kind of similar
[01:18:43.640 --> 01:18:47.000]  to what you were just talking about with cryptocurrencies,
[01:18:47.000 --> 01:18:50.240]  Coinbase in particular, or even if you're doing stocks,
[01:18:50.240 --> 01:18:53.640]  those brokerages, they will send a,
[01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:57.480]  what's a 1099, they'll send those out to you.
[01:18:57.480 --> 01:18:59.880]  So when you receive a 1099,
[01:18:59.880 --> 01:19:04.120]  what do you do with that as far as like, do you ignore it?
[01:19:04.120 --> 01:19:05.520]  I mean, I would never advise anything.
[01:19:05.520 --> 01:19:07.720]  I don't know anything about this stuff.
[01:19:07.720 --> 01:19:12.720]  I'm just saying like, how do you like convince whoever
[01:19:13.380 --> 01:19:15.400]  that that's property and not income?
[01:19:17.520 --> 01:19:20.120]  Okay, so first of all, this goes back,
[01:19:20.120 --> 01:19:22.120]  was your name Al, did I get that correct?
[01:19:22.120 --> 01:19:24.400]  No, you call me Nick, that's my name.
[01:19:24.400 --> 01:19:26.080]  Okay, I normally be on camera,
[01:19:26.080 --> 01:19:28.440]  just my office is a mess right now.
[01:19:28.440 --> 01:19:29.360]  Okay, no problem.
[01:19:29.360 --> 01:19:30.200]  All right, Nick.
[01:19:30.200 --> 01:19:32.680]  So I hinted about this a few moments ago
[01:19:32.680 --> 01:19:34.320]  when we talked about the Form W9
[01:19:34.320 --> 01:19:37.840]  and because the way the regulatory flow works
[01:19:37.840 --> 01:19:42.320]  is a company will request that you execute a Form W9
[01:19:42.320 --> 01:19:45.840]  or they will have an embedded Form W9
[01:19:45.840 --> 01:19:48.200]  in their software when you sign up.
[01:19:49.080 --> 01:19:52.560]  And so that W9 in whatever form it takes,
[01:19:52.560 --> 01:19:55.600]  that Form W9 then green lights them
[01:19:55.600 --> 01:19:58.400]  to furnish the 1099.
[01:19:58.400 --> 01:20:01.080]  So from the government's point of view,
[01:20:01.080 --> 01:20:05.600]  that 1099 when they get it with Nick's name on it
[01:20:05.600 --> 01:20:08.720]  at the end of the year, what it says to them
[01:20:08.720 --> 01:20:13.000]  is their presumption is Nick executed a Form W9
[01:20:13.000 --> 01:20:14.040]  under penalty of perjury.
[01:20:14.040 --> 01:20:17.240]  So what Nick said to the exchange,
[01:20:17.240 --> 01:20:18.880]  if we're using crypto as an example,
[01:20:18.880 --> 01:20:20.760]  what Nick certified to the exchange
[01:20:20.760 --> 01:20:22.160]  under penalty of perjury
[01:20:22.160 --> 01:20:24.040]  is that this isn't really Nick's money.
[01:20:24.040 --> 01:20:26.160]  This is actually money belonging to a foreign person,
[01:20:26.160 --> 01:20:28.320]  US source income belonging to a foreign person.
[01:20:28.320 --> 01:20:33.080]  And so therefore, Nick needs to show
[01:20:33.080 --> 01:20:36.240]  that he pushed the money to another domestic agent
[01:20:36.240 --> 01:20:38.840]  or Nick needs to withhold the US income tax
[01:20:38.840 --> 01:20:40.160]  and pay it over to the government.
[01:20:40.160 --> 01:20:43.680]  That's what the 1099 symbolizes to the government.
[01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:45.520]  So no, you don't wanna leave
[01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:48.280]  that legal presumption in place.
[01:20:48.280 --> 01:20:53.280]  You definitely want to lay what I call
[01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:55.440]  the evidentiary record.
[01:20:55.440 --> 01:20:57.640]  And that involves reaching out to the company
[01:20:57.640 --> 01:20:58.960]  when they request a W9.
[01:20:58.960 --> 01:21:00.640]  There's a whole complex.
[01:21:00.640 --> 01:21:01.520]  If I can help you with that,
[01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:03.840]  shoot me an email at daviddoctorreality.news.
[01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:07.560]  But you do not wanna leave it unresponded to,
[01:21:07.560 --> 01:21:08.920]  unrebutted is the answer.
[01:21:08.920 --> 01:21:12.600]  But that process begins
[01:21:12.600 --> 01:21:14.320]  with the initial request
[01:21:14.320 --> 01:21:16.160]  for your taxpayer identification number.
[01:21:16.160 --> 01:21:18.160]  It doesn't just begin at the point
[01:21:18.160 --> 01:21:20.720]  where the 1099 arrives in your mailbox.
[01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:23.760]  Sure, so just to make this simple,
[01:21:23.760 --> 01:21:28.480]  essentially a W9 is, if you sign that,
[01:21:28.480 --> 01:21:30.280]  you're essentially saying that's like foreign money
[01:21:30.280 --> 01:21:32.000]  or money from a foreign person.
[01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:33.080]  So when-
[01:21:33.080 --> 01:21:34.680]  No, no, let me correct that.
[01:21:34.680 --> 01:21:37.480]  US source income belonging to a foreign person.
[01:21:37.480 --> 01:21:39.560]  Got you, okay, I understand.
[01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:41.920]  Cause it might be, I'm not a foreign person.
[01:21:41.920 --> 01:21:43.960]  So that's pretty much what you're gonna have to,
[01:21:43.960 --> 01:21:46.000]  you'll have some volleys back and forth
[01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:48.000]  explaining basically that you're not a foreign person.
[01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:50.080]  Is that, am I assuming that properly?
[01:21:50.960 --> 01:21:53.160]  Yes, and if I may tell you a story,
[01:21:53.160 --> 01:21:54.200]  something that happened recently,
[01:21:54.200 --> 01:21:56.240]  and I think it'll highlight what's going on here.
[01:21:56.240 --> 01:21:57.800]  So I've got a friend of mine on the East Coast,
[01:21:57.800 --> 01:22:00.240]  and he's very big into real estate,
[01:22:00.240 --> 01:22:02.920]  and he's got multiple licenses
[01:22:02.920 --> 01:22:06.240]  concerning brokerage and real estate.
[01:22:06.240 --> 01:22:09.320]  So he went, because he has these licenses,
[01:22:09.320 --> 01:22:11.560]  he went to that thing that a lot of licensees
[01:22:11.560 --> 01:22:15.240]  have to go to now, which is annual continuing education.
[01:22:15.240 --> 01:22:16.400]  So he went to one of these,
[01:22:16.400 --> 01:22:18.480]  and the guest speaker part of this
[01:22:18.480 --> 01:22:19.880]  was somebody from one of the biggest
[01:22:19.880 --> 01:22:22.720]  real estate conglomerates in the United States.
[01:22:22.720 --> 01:22:25.360]  And he was talking about,
[01:22:25.360 --> 01:22:28.480]  oh, what's the acronym for that form?
[01:22:28.480 --> 01:22:29.320]  Ferda?
[01:22:29.320 --> 01:22:30.160]  FERPA?
[01:22:30.160 --> 01:22:31.720]  I forget, anyway.
[01:22:31.720 --> 01:22:34.520]  But it was created, this form was created
[01:22:34.520 --> 01:22:37.840]  by the very top companies in the real estate industry.
[01:22:37.840 --> 01:22:39.840]  And now, oh, Facta?
[01:22:39.840 --> 01:22:40.680]  Anyway.
[01:22:40.680 --> 01:22:42.560]  Facta, yeah, that's Facta.
[01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:45.440]  Okay, so now everybody in the real estate,
[01:22:45.440 --> 01:22:47.880]  if you're doing, you're buying, selling,
[01:22:47.880 --> 01:22:49.080]  doing anything in real estate,
[01:22:49.080 --> 01:22:50.560]  you have to sign this Facta form,
[01:22:50.560 --> 01:22:53.200]  which says you are not a foreign person.
[01:22:53.200 --> 01:22:56.920]  So someone in the crowd raised their hand
[01:22:56.920 --> 01:22:59.400]  and said to the guest speaker,
[01:22:59.400 --> 01:23:03.560]  considering like 99% of our business is Americans,
[01:23:03.560 --> 01:23:06.120]  why are we having everybody sign this Facta form?
[01:23:07.800 --> 01:23:09.920]  And the guy said, because the way
[01:23:09.920 --> 01:23:12.840]  the US government looks at it
[01:23:12.840 --> 01:23:15.440]  is everyone is a foreign person
[01:23:15.440 --> 01:23:17.160]  until they certify otherwise.
[01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:20.320]  Very shocking, is it not?
[01:23:20.320 --> 01:23:21.160]  Yes.
[01:23:21.160 --> 01:23:23.000]  Guilty until proven innocent.
[01:23:23.000 --> 01:23:23.840]  Correct.
[01:23:23.840 --> 01:23:25.560]  And that's the same thing that's going on
[01:23:25.560 --> 01:23:27.120]  with the crypto exchanges,
[01:23:27.120 --> 01:23:29.680]  the same thing that's going on when Tim,
[01:23:29.680 --> 01:23:32.080]  the guy who cleans carpets for businesses at night,
[01:23:32.080 --> 01:23:33.160]  when they wanna cut him a check,
[01:23:33.160 --> 01:23:35.840]  they say, hey, we need you to sign this W9.
[01:23:35.840 --> 01:23:40.160]  It is this dynamic in the United States
[01:23:40.160 --> 01:23:44.360]  where everybody has to certify that they're not foreign.
[01:23:44.360 --> 01:23:48.680]  But the problem is that part where like,
[01:23:48.680 --> 01:23:51.000]  okay, so I'm not a foreign person,
[01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:52.360]  I don't have to sign this,
[01:23:52.360 --> 01:23:55.120]  that part is missing from the minds of the people
[01:23:55.120 --> 01:23:57.120]  who are making the demand for the W9.
[01:23:57.120 --> 01:23:59.600]  So for instance, if somebody said to me,
[01:23:59.600 --> 01:24:02.200]  hey, Dave, I need to pay you that money,
[01:24:02.200 --> 01:24:06.600]  shoot me a W9, I have no objection to that request.
[01:24:06.600 --> 01:24:08.760]  So when I say, hey, Bob,
[01:24:08.760 --> 01:24:10.880]  that's cool that you want the W9, but not for me,
[01:24:10.880 --> 01:24:13.040]  that's not a correct form for me in law,
[01:24:13.040 --> 01:24:14.720]  I would be sort of flying under penalty of perjury,
[01:24:14.720 --> 01:24:16.080]  something I know to be false,
[01:24:16.080 --> 01:24:18.120]  I know you don't want me to commit perjury,
[01:24:18.120 --> 01:24:19.760]  well, then I'm not gonna be able to pay you.
[01:24:19.760 --> 01:24:22.520]  Oh, so now you are suborning perjury,
[01:24:22.520 --> 01:24:25.360]  which is a federal offense, a felony, right?
[01:24:25.360 --> 01:24:30.280]  So if he simply said, oh, I didn't, you're not that guy.
[01:24:30.280 --> 01:24:33.400]  Okay, nevermind, now that you've told me I don't need it,
[01:24:33.400 --> 01:24:35.320]  you're not the guy, I don't need it then.
[01:24:35.320 --> 01:24:37.360]  I'd be like, okay, cool, I think you would too be,
[01:24:37.360 --> 01:24:38.880]  you'd also be cool, Nick.
[01:24:38.880 --> 01:24:42.200]  The problem is Bob would say to me,
[01:24:42.240 --> 01:24:44.640]  listen here, Dave, I'm not really asking,
[01:24:44.640 --> 01:24:46.400]  I asked for it, but I'm not really asking,
[01:24:46.400 --> 01:24:47.240]  you better give that to me,
[01:24:47.240 --> 01:24:49.440]  if you don't give that to me, I'm not gonna pay you,
[01:24:49.440 --> 01:24:53.080]  or I'm gonna back up with hold, I need that form.
[01:24:53.080 --> 01:24:55.360]  And if we end up in an argument, perhaps,
[01:24:55.360 --> 01:24:56.840]  if you've got somebody who's out there
[01:24:56.840 --> 01:24:58.640]  trying to make a living for their family,
[01:24:58.640 --> 01:25:01.480]  then their customers or their clients may say,
[01:25:01.480 --> 01:25:04.360]  well, I'm sorry, I can't do business with you anymore.
[01:25:04.360 --> 01:25:07.400]  So much like with the crypto exchanges,
[01:25:08.360 --> 01:25:10.560]  when somebody says it's our way or the highway,
[01:25:10.560 --> 01:25:15.360]  you still need to be able to respond to that
[01:25:15.360 --> 01:25:17.760]  and create the evidentiary record showing
[01:25:17.760 --> 01:25:19.520]  that they disregarded the law,
[01:25:19.520 --> 01:25:21.280]  and there are some ways to do that.
[01:25:21.280 --> 01:25:24.840]  Interesting, okay, shoot, I thought, oh yes,
[01:25:24.840 --> 01:25:29.000]  and with an LLC purchasing items, things like that,
[01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:30.440]  do they even require W9s?
[01:25:30.440 --> 01:25:32.760]  I've had my LLC open up some accounts,
[01:25:32.760 --> 01:25:34.760]  I just haven't been using them,
[01:25:34.760 --> 01:25:37.640]  but are there different rules for LLCs
[01:25:37.640 --> 01:25:39.040]  than like a natural person?
[01:25:40.040 --> 01:25:40.880]  In that regard.
[01:25:42.040 --> 01:25:44.040]  Thank you for the in that regard part.
[01:25:45.360 --> 01:25:49.760]  Typically LLCs, I'm sorry, financial institutions
[01:25:49.760 --> 01:25:53.960]  and many other entities consider an LLC
[01:25:53.960 --> 01:25:56.840]  to be the same as an individual,
[01:25:56.840 --> 01:25:58.720]  and the reason for that is they don't know
[01:25:58.720 --> 01:26:02.480]  whether it's a single member LLC or what the status is,
[01:26:02.480 --> 01:26:06.320]  so they just consider it the same as an individual.
[01:26:06.400 --> 01:26:10.360]  They do treat C-Corps very differently,
[01:26:10.360 --> 01:26:12.240]  but LLCs, they generally treat
[01:26:12.240 --> 01:26:13.920]  just like they would treat me or you.
[01:26:13.920 --> 01:26:17.080]  I see, my LLCs are all multi-member LLCs,
[01:26:17.080 --> 01:26:19.840]  so I'm not a disregarded entity,
[01:26:19.840 --> 01:26:21.520]  so if that being the case,
[01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:23.680]  that provides a little bit of protection,
[01:26:23.680 --> 01:26:28.600]  and with that being the case, multi-member LLC,
[01:26:28.600 --> 01:26:30.480]  not a natural person,
[01:26:30.480 --> 01:26:32.840]  I imagine they don't know that unless you tell them that,
[01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:34.120]  so they're probably gonna proceed
[01:26:34.120 --> 01:26:36.600]  as if the LLC is a natural person.
[01:26:38.800 --> 01:26:42.360]  In any case, is there a different process
[01:26:42.360 --> 01:26:45.520]  to rebut any W-9 that comes your way
[01:26:45.520 --> 01:26:47.360]  as a multi-member LLC?
[01:26:48.320 --> 01:26:51.160]  No, because the W-9 doesn't change
[01:26:51.160 --> 01:26:54.120]  what it symbolizes in law,
[01:26:54.120 --> 01:26:55.600]  whether it's me filling it out
[01:26:55.600 --> 01:26:58.840]  or your multi-level LLC filling it out.
[01:26:58.840 --> 01:27:00.760]  It's still a declaration under penalty of perjury
[01:27:00.760 --> 01:27:01.880]  that the income you're receiving
[01:27:01.880 --> 01:27:04.760]  is U.S. source income that belongs to a foreign person,
[01:27:04.760 --> 01:27:07.360]  and the LLC is acting as the domestic agent
[01:27:07.360 --> 01:27:08.320]  for the foreign person.
[01:27:08.320 --> 01:27:10.000]  Got you, okay, understood.
[01:27:10.840 --> 01:27:11.840]  That makes sense to me,
[01:27:11.840 --> 01:27:14.000]  and I know a little of these things,
[01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:16.040]  so that's why it kind of makes sense,
[01:27:16.040 --> 01:27:18.240]  but feel free to elaborate for anybody else,
[01:27:18.240 --> 01:27:20.120]  and I appreciate your time.
[01:27:20.120 --> 01:27:20.960]  Thanks, Nick.
[01:27:21.840 --> 01:27:22.680]  Yeah, thanks, Nick.
[01:27:22.680 --> 01:27:23.840]  Anything else?
[01:27:23.840 --> 01:27:24.960]  No, not for me, thank you.
[01:27:24.960 --> 01:27:25.800]  All right, right on, dude.
[01:27:25.800 --> 01:27:26.960]  We'll talk soon, later.
[01:27:28.320 --> 01:27:30.000]  All right, we had somebody
[01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:31.160]  that was gonna try to come on,
[01:27:31.160 --> 01:27:33.240]  but it shows your microphone and your video
[01:27:33.240 --> 01:27:34.080]  is not connected,
[01:27:34.080 --> 01:27:35.680]  so you're just hanging out backstage.
[01:27:35.680 --> 01:27:36.960]  We had one person that dropped off,
[01:27:36.960 --> 01:27:39.280]  but while we're waiting to see
[01:27:39.280 --> 01:27:40.840]  if anybody's gonna pop backstage, Dave,
[01:27:40.840 --> 01:27:42.080]  I do wanna bring up this question
[01:27:42.080 --> 01:27:44.400]  that we got really early on.
[01:27:44.400 --> 01:27:45.220]  Question for Dave,
[01:27:45.220 --> 01:27:47.440]  what advice would you give for IRS lock-in letters?
[01:27:47.440 --> 01:27:49.040]  The IRS can arbitrarily send one
[01:27:49.040 --> 01:27:50.160]  to try to scare your employer
[01:27:50.160 --> 01:27:53.240]  into withholding federal income tax as a last resort.
[01:27:56.000 --> 01:27:59.080]  Okay, so what's missing from that
[01:27:59.080 --> 01:28:00.640]  is lock-in letters come
[01:28:00.640 --> 01:28:03.120]  when somebody has gone exempt on their W-4.
[01:28:04.160 --> 01:28:06.980]  They don't just arbitrarily send lock-in letters.
[01:28:07.880 --> 01:28:10.300]  And there's a whole dynamic that goes with this.
[01:28:10.300 --> 01:28:15.280]  So a lot of people who learn the truth of the income tax
[01:28:15.280 --> 01:28:19.480]  but don't understand the forms side of it well enough,
[01:28:19.480 --> 01:28:20.960]  they think that the solution
[01:28:20.960 --> 01:28:23.100]  to not paying income tax anymore,
[01:28:23.100 --> 01:28:26.880]  not filing 1040s, is to go exempt on the W-4.
[01:28:26.880 --> 01:28:30.600]  So exempt, and you've read income tax shattering the mist.
[01:28:30.600 --> 01:28:34.160]  So you know that words used
[01:28:34.160 --> 01:28:36.340]  by the government concerning income tax
[01:28:36.340 --> 01:28:37.360]  frequently don't mean
[01:28:37.360 --> 01:28:39.600]  what the American public believes they mean.
[01:28:39.600 --> 01:28:41.780]  And exempt is one such example.
[01:28:41.780 --> 01:28:43.560]  If you lined up 100 Americans and said,
[01:28:43.560 --> 01:28:47.200]  what does it mean to say you're exempt from the income tax?
[01:28:47.200 --> 01:28:49.000]  They would say, oh, well, you don't know it.
[01:28:49.000 --> 01:28:53.400]  So that's not at all what exempt means on a form W-4.
[01:28:53.400 --> 01:28:56.080]  Exempt on a form W-4 means the following.
[01:28:56.080 --> 01:28:58.320]  Because remember the form W-4,
[01:28:58.320 --> 01:29:00.720]  just gonna blow the minds of some of your audience,
[01:29:00.720 --> 01:29:02.680]  is also for a non-resident alien
[01:29:02.680 --> 01:29:03.800]  receiving US source income.
[01:29:03.800 --> 01:29:06.640]  It has nothing to do with Joe Blow
[01:29:06.640 --> 01:29:08.580]  working as an auto mechanic at a big shop.
[01:29:08.580 --> 01:29:10.160]  It doesn't have anything to do with Susie
[01:29:10.160 --> 01:29:13.080]  who's a receptionist at the dental office, nothing.
[01:29:13.080 --> 01:29:16.460]  It is for non-resident aliens with US source income.
[01:29:16.460 --> 01:29:21.460]  So exempt, when you sign a W-4 under penalty perjury,
[01:29:22.160 --> 01:29:24.160]  you're raising your hand and saying,
[01:29:24.160 --> 01:29:27.160]  I am a non-resident alien with US source income.
[01:29:27.160 --> 01:29:29.080]  Please withhold from me.
[01:29:29.080 --> 01:29:29.920]  Okay.
[01:29:30.920 --> 01:29:33.160]  So with that in mind,
[01:29:33.160 --> 01:29:35.760]  when the government sees the signature at the bottom,
[01:29:36.960 --> 01:29:38.720]  exempt doesn't mean you don't know the tax
[01:29:38.720 --> 01:29:41.400]  because you just declared under penalty of perjury, you do.
[01:29:42.440 --> 01:29:46.480]  So exempt is a technical classification.
[01:29:46.480 --> 01:29:48.360]  So as an example,
[01:29:48.360 --> 01:29:50.400]  let's say a non-resident alien
[01:29:50.400 --> 01:29:52.540]  overpaid his income tax last year.
[01:29:54.240 --> 01:29:59.240]  So the IRS allows him to not have payroll withholding done
[01:30:01.660 --> 01:30:05.160]  for a period of time until he breaks even
[01:30:05.160 --> 01:30:08.160]  on his overpayment from the year before.
[01:30:08.160 --> 01:30:09.000]  Yeah.
[01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:13.080]  So exempt means you don't have to pay,
[01:30:13.080 --> 01:30:14.720]  you do owe income tax.
[01:30:14.720 --> 01:30:17.200]  You are a person upon whom it's been imposed.
[01:30:17.200 --> 01:30:18.240]  That's number one.
[01:30:18.240 --> 01:30:23.240]  Number two, there is a technical reason that number three,
[01:30:23.520 --> 01:30:27.280]  you don't have to have withholding done right now.
[01:30:28.640 --> 01:30:33.640]  So what happens is oftentimes after somebody's gone exempt
[01:30:34.480 --> 01:30:35.760]  for a period of time,
[01:30:35.760 --> 01:30:38.640]  the government will say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[01:30:38.640 --> 01:30:42.280]  So what they'll do is they'll send this lock-in letter.
[01:30:42.280 --> 01:30:44.120]  It's also called a single zero letter.
[01:30:44.120 --> 01:30:49.120]  And what it tells the company is dishonor the existing W-4.
[01:30:49.580 --> 01:30:51.020]  It's no longer valid.
[01:30:51.020 --> 01:30:53.760]  And we're saying you now have to withhold a single zero,
[01:30:53.760 --> 01:30:55.580]  which is the highest amount of withholding
[01:30:55.580 --> 01:30:56.780]  that can be done.
[01:30:56.780 --> 01:31:00.680]  And more importantly, or in addition,
[01:31:00.680 --> 01:31:02.340]  you're not allowed to take another W-4
[01:31:02.340 --> 01:31:04.500]  from that guy until we say so.
[01:31:04.500 --> 01:31:07.340]  So it's single zero until we say otherwise.
[01:31:09.940 --> 01:31:11.860]  And in cases like that, well, first of all,
[01:31:11.860 --> 01:31:14.260]  the solution is not to go exempt, okay, number one,
[01:31:14.260 --> 01:31:16.460]  because the lock-in letter only comes
[01:31:16.460 --> 01:31:17.900]  in response to going exempt.
[01:31:17.900 --> 01:31:22.900]  Secondly, it's dependent on whether the employer
[01:31:26.900 --> 01:31:27.740]  is just a drone.
[01:31:27.740 --> 01:31:28.940]  I mean, if they are, they're gonna say,
[01:31:28.940 --> 01:31:31.060]  I'm sorry, we have to do this.
[01:31:31.060 --> 01:31:32.860]  But there's no requirement for them to adhere to that.
[01:31:32.860 --> 01:31:35.860]  I should say, by the way, just not that my saying
[01:31:35.860 --> 01:31:37.340]  this is going to influence companies
[01:31:37.340 --> 01:31:39.060]  that receive the lock-in letter,
[01:31:39.060 --> 01:31:41.740]  but they're under no obligation to do that.
[01:31:41.740 --> 01:31:44.100]  They can just continue to do whatever they've been doing
[01:31:44.100 --> 01:31:45.620]  with the employee.
[01:31:46.620 --> 01:31:49.460]  And there is no consequence for the company
[01:31:49.460 --> 01:31:51.420]  in ignoring a lock-in letter.
[01:31:51.420 --> 01:31:53.740]  Interesting side note on that.
[01:31:54.920 --> 01:31:56.980]  The Treasury Department has a list
[01:31:56.980 --> 01:32:01.540]  of every single document that it produces
[01:32:01.540 --> 01:32:03.060]  that goes after the public.
[01:32:03.060 --> 01:32:05.300]  And it's a catalog.
[01:32:05.300 --> 01:32:08.980]  And it shows in their official catalog,
[01:32:08.980 --> 01:32:12.540]  and it shows what the document has been approved for.
[01:32:13.540 --> 01:32:17.260]  And Chris, you and I know that, for instance,
[01:32:17.260 --> 01:32:18.940]  the W9 is a perfect example.
[01:32:18.940 --> 01:32:20.580]  It doesn't tell you what it's really for,
[01:32:20.580 --> 01:32:23.340]  because if it's said on the document,
[01:32:23.340 --> 01:32:25.860]  in law, here's what you're attesting to,
[01:32:25.860 --> 01:32:27.500]  no one will sign it, right?
[01:32:27.500 --> 01:32:30.860]  So the same thing is true with the lock-in letter.
[01:32:30.860 --> 01:32:32.260]  When you look at the catalog,
[01:32:32.260 --> 01:32:33.660]  you look at that letter number,
[01:32:33.660 --> 01:32:36.900]  and you see every document is approved
[01:32:36.900 --> 01:32:39.460]  by the Treasury Department legal department.
[01:32:39.780 --> 01:32:40.980]  Okay.
[01:32:40.980 --> 01:32:43.540]  And it lists its purpose,
[01:32:43.540 --> 01:32:45.180]  what the attorneys at Treasury
[01:32:45.180 --> 01:32:47.700]  have approved it to be used for.
[01:32:47.700 --> 01:32:51.180]  And the sole thing that the attorneys have approved
[01:32:51.180 --> 01:32:53.340]  the lock-in letter for is it says,
[01:32:53.340 --> 01:32:58.340]  instructs an employer to withhold at other than single zero.
[01:33:00.300 --> 01:33:02.860]  But the IRS changes the language on the face of it
[01:33:02.860 --> 01:33:06.900]  and says, now you must withhold at single zero.
[01:33:06.900 --> 01:33:09.260]  But that's not the approved...
[01:33:10.020 --> 01:33:10.860]  That's not the use for which
[01:33:10.860 --> 01:33:12.420]  the Treasury attorneys approved it.
[01:33:12.420 --> 01:33:13.460]  It's part of the scam.
[01:33:15.180 --> 01:33:16.020]  Got it.
[01:33:16.020 --> 01:33:16.860]  Yeah, I hope that answers the question.
[01:33:16.860 --> 01:33:20.020]  I know that we talked before about,
[01:33:20.020 --> 01:33:21.700]  if a company's forcing you to sign a W-4,
[01:33:21.700 --> 01:33:22.980]  you can sign it under duress,
[01:33:22.980 --> 01:33:24.940]  or ideally you don't submit it at all,
[01:33:24.940 --> 01:33:27.140]  but some folks say it's just the cost of doing business
[01:33:27.140 --> 01:33:28.580]  and you kind of worry about it after the fact,
[01:33:28.580 --> 01:33:30.540]  but I know you're not of that school.
[01:33:31.620 --> 01:33:33.660]  So is that the right way to go about it,
[01:33:33.660 --> 01:33:35.380]  is to sign it under duress?
[01:33:36.380 --> 01:33:38.620]  Well, again, that's part of a whole process
[01:33:38.620 --> 01:33:42.460]  creating what I refer to as the evidentiary record.
[01:33:42.460 --> 01:33:44.380]  And that's more than we can probably get into here.
[01:33:44.380 --> 01:33:49.380]  But yeah, it's essential to make sure
[01:33:50.420 --> 01:33:54.140]  that the communications for both sides
[01:33:55.180 --> 01:33:59.540]  and the communications have to be legally factual
[01:33:59.540 --> 01:34:00.860]  and accurate.
[01:34:00.860 --> 01:34:02.620]  They have to be properly stated
[01:34:02.620 --> 01:34:07.620]  and that you memorialize in your evidentiary record
[01:34:08.620 --> 01:34:10.380]  every step of the way.
[01:34:10.380 --> 01:34:12.340]  That's what protects you down the road.
[01:34:13.300 --> 01:34:14.580]  So people will just say,
[01:34:14.580 --> 01:34:15.780]  oh, it's the cost of doing business,
[01:34:15.780 --> 01:34:17.060]  I'll sign it and deal with it later.
[01:34:17.060 --> 01:34:18.820]  No, no, no, no, no.
[01:34:18.820 --> 01:34:22.820]  Because when later comes, you don't have any evidence.
[01:34:23.700 --> 01:34:25.060]  What it looks like to the government
[01:34:25.060 --> 01:34:27.980]  is you signed it because you believed it.
[01:34:27.980 --> 01:34:31.700]  You signed it because you believe you're a person
[01:34:31.700 --> 01:34:32.900]  who owes the income tax.
[01:34:32.900 --> 01:34:35.500]  You signed it because you're under penalty of perjury
[01:34:35.500 --> 01:34:36.900]  because you're a person who believes
[01:34:36.900 --> 01:34:40.660]  that withholding must be done from you.
[01:34:40.660 --> 01:34:43.140]  And then at that point, the government says,
[01:34:43.140 --> 01:34:44.620]  we believe you.
[01:34:46.300 --> 01:34:48.540]  You said it under penalty of perjury.
[01:34:48.540 --> 01:34:50.660]  Interesting short story.
[01:34:50.660 --> 01:34:52.580]  Back in the 90s, there was this big thing
[01:34:52.580 --> 01:34:54.780]  where people would send letters off to the IRS
[01:34:54.780 --> 01:34:58.300]  and they would say, please show me the law
[01:34:58.340 --> 01:35:01.580]  that makes me liable for the income tax, right?
[01:35:03.340 --> 01:35:06.660]  Some other guy makes me liable for the income tax.
[01:35:06.660 --> 01:35:08.300]  And the IRS no longer does this,
[01:35:08.300 --> 01:35:11.740]  but for several years, the IRS would send a letter back
[01:35:11.740 --> 01:35:13.460]  saying we've received your request,
[01:35:13.460 --> 01:35:15.540]  please see the attached document.
[01:35:15.540 --> 01:35:17.500]  And when you turn the page over,
[01:35:17.500 --> 01:35:20.340]  it was your previously file 1040, okay?
[01:35:20.340 --> 01:35:23.700]  So really what the government was saying is,
[01:35:23.700 --> 01:35:28.020]  why are you asking us to show you
[01:35:28.020 --> 01:35:29.540]  why you're liable?
[01:35:29.540 --> 01:35:33.820]  You certified under penalty of perjury to us
[01:35:33.820 --> 01:35:35.060]  that you're liable.
[01:35:35.060 --> 01:35:36.780]  We're just taking you with your word.
[01:35:36.780 --> 01:35:38.500]  What's your problem?
[01:35:38.500 --> 01:35:41.980]  Which is kind of a comical response from the IRS.
[01:35:41.980 --> 01:35:46.260]  But it shows how the, while it's humorous in a sense,
[01:35:46.260 --> 01:35:50.100]  it does show how the IRS operates off the things you signed
[01:35:50.100 --> 01:35:52.660]  and the presumptions that those signatures raise
[01:35:52.660 --> 01:35:55.260]  and why it is so important to effectively
[01:35:55.260 --> 01:35:57.940]  and incrementally as things progress
[01:35:58.860 --> 01:36:01.300]  in your business world to effectively,
[01:36:01.300 --> 01:36:02.980]  effectively rebut those things
[01:36:02.980 --> 01:36:05.340]  and build an evidentiary record.
[01:36:05.340 --> 01:36:07.940]  And so it's essentially, it's not enough just to say,
[01:36:07.940 --> 01:36:09.660]  hey, I'm not gonna sign a 1040.
[01:36:09.660 --> 01:36:13.860]  I need to rid myself of all forms
[01:36:13.860 --> 01:36:16.860]  that could be considered under penalty of perjury
[01:36:16.860 --> 01:36:20.660]  that I am somebody upon which the income tax has applied.
[01:36:20.660 --> 01:36:23.940]  I mean, that's a lead into this question.
[01:36:23.940 --> 01:36:26.100]  It's like, okay, let's say I'm a self-employed,
[01:36:26.100 --> 01:36:27.900]  I'm a business owner and I'm utilizing
[01:36:29.220 --> 01:36:32.060]  third-party payment platform, Stripe or Venmo or PayPal
[01:36:32.060 --> 01:36:34.220]  or one of these, and that's how I conduct my business.
[01:36:34.220 --> 01:36:38.460]  So some of these apps may have built-in W9s.
[01:36:38.460 --> 01:36:40.940]  I mean, if I've ever given a TIN or an SSN,
[01:36:42.100 --> 01:36:44.380]  what sort of checks do I need to do if I've done this?
[01:36:44.380 --> 01:36:46.700]  Do I need to go back and review
[01:36:46.700 --> 01:36:49.580]  under the TS terms of service,
[01:36:49.580 --> 01:36:52.660]  whether I've unknowingly signed one,
[01:36:53.980 --> 01:36:55.020]  kind of check that.
[01:36:55.020 --> 01:36:56.740]  And let's say I have,
[01:36:56.740 --> 01:36:58.580]  and I've received money through one of these exchanges,
[01:36:58.580 --> 01:37:02.180]  what's the next step in building that evidentiary record?
[01:37:03.260 --> 01:37:08.020]  Okay, so if you're opening an account
[01:37:09.180 --> 01:37:13.100]  with any business that could reasonably be construed
[01:37:13.100 --> 01:37:14.500]  as a financial institution,
[01:37:14.500 --> 01:37:17.540]  which I'm using that in a very, very broad sense.
[01:37:17.540 --> 01:37:19.100]  Sure.
[01:37:19.100 --> 01:37:21.020]  And one way to look at it would be
[01:37:21.020 --> 01:37:23.420]  if money is flowing from you
[01:37:23.420 --> 01:37:25.100]  to others through that mechanism
[01:37:25.100 --> 01:37:27.180]  or from others to you through that mechanism
[01:37:27.180 --> 01:37:28.860]  for the purpose of this discussion,
[01:37:28.860 --> 01:37:30.700]  we'll call it a financial institution.
[01:37:31.740 --> 01:37:33.780]  If that's the case,
[01:37:33.780 --> 01:37:36.540]  they consider that you did execute a form W9.
[01:37:37.380 --> 01:37:38.220]  Okay.
[01:37:38.220 --> 01:37:41.380]  Now, it may just have been that you're online
[01:37:41.380 --> 01:37:43.100]  and you're signing up on your phone
[01:37:43.100 --> 01:37:44.780]  for say a stock trading account, right?
[01:37:44.780 --> 01:37:45.620]  And you're doing this.
[01:37:45.620 --> 01:37:46.500]  And it gets to the point
[01:37:46.500 --> 01:37:50.100]  where it requests your social security number, okay?
[01:37:50.100 --> 01:37:50.940]  Well, it's really requesting
[01:37:50.940 --> 01:37:53.380]  your taxpayer identification number.
[01:37:54.380 --> 01:37:58.660]  And what happens is in that company's software,
[01:37:58.660 --> 01:38:00.140]  the number you enter in
[01:38:00.140 --> 01:38:03.420]  drops into the taxpayer identification box.
[01:38:03.420 --> 01:38:05.820]  It drops into the W9 box,
[01:38:05.820 --> 01:38:10.780]  even if that information is not presented to you as such.
[01:38:10.780 --> 01:38:11.620]  So if it says,
[01:38:11.620 --> 01:38:14.300]  please enter your taxpayer identification number,
[01:38:14.300 --> 01:38:17.860]  and it does not disclose this serves as a form W9
[01:38:17.860 --> 01:38:19.380]  by clicking this box,
[01:38:19.380 --> 01:38:22.140]  you are certifying this and such as true
[01:38:22.140 --> 01:38:23.380]  concerning the W9.
[01:38:23.380 --> 01:38:25.580]  Even if that's not there,
[01:38:25.580 --> 01:38:28.780]  which obviously should be legally,
[01:38:28.780 --> 01:38:30.460]  but even if that's not there,
[01:38:30.460 --> 01:38:32.620]  their software drops the number
[01:38:32.620 --> 01:38:34.060]  that you enter into the field,
[01:38:34.060 --> 01:38:38.580]  drops it into the W9 box on their backend.
[01:38:38.580 --> 01:38:39.420]  Okay.
[01:38:39.420 --> 01:38:43.060]  So yes, there's a whole process that needs to take place
[01:38:45.260 --> 01:38:48.940]  to effectively and correctly rebut the presumptions
[01:38:48.940 --> 01:38:51.940]  that those moments raise.
[01:38:53.980 --> 01:38:55.100]  Got it.
[01:38:55.100 --> 01:38:56.100]  So there's always a process,
[01:38:56.100 --> 01:38:57.900]  and there's a process even with that.
[01:38:57.900 --> 01:38:59.260]  Like I said, it's not as simple as saying,
[01:38:59.260 --> 01:39:01.100]  hey, I'm not gonna file a 1040.
[01:39:01.100 --> 01:39:03.020]  I'll take money through some of these exchanges.
[01:39:03.020 --> 01:39:06.100]  You know, and that's wild that they can present
[01:39:06.100 --> 01:39:07.780]  just by filling out an SSN.
[01:39:07.780 --> 01:39:09.540]  They say, oh, well, that's, you know,
[01:39:09.540 --> 01:39:11.060]  even though we don't give you a W9,
[01:39:11.060 --> 01:39:13.380]  even though we don't have it any fine print saying,
[01:39:13.380 --> 01:39:16.660]  you're basically signing a W9 because of this,
[01:39:16.660 --> 01:39:19.060]  you are giving us that information,
[01:39:19.060 --> 01:39:20.180]  and therefore, you know,
[01:39:20.180 --> 01:39:24.180]  you fall under this category of being a taxpayer.
[01:39:24.180 --> 01:39:25.620]  So that I'm sure a lot,
[01:39:25.620 --> 01:39:27.540]  cause we have a lot of entrepreneurs that watch our stuff,
[01:39:27.540 --> 01:39:29.940]  and you know, there's only so many payment,
[01:39:29.940 --> 01:39:31.540]  you know, gateways out there in the world,
[01:39:31.540 --> 01:39:33.580]  unless you create your own,
[01:39:33.580 --> 01:39:36.260]  but you know, these gigantic third party,
[01:39:36.260 --> 01:39:38.340]  you know, companies that are taking your money.
[01:39:38.340 --> 01:39:40.820]  So that's something else for these guys to look out for
[01:39:40.820 --> 01:39:43.140]  if you're doing business outside of, you know, W2,
[01:39:43.140 --> 01:39:44.980]  and you're an independent contractor,
[01:39:44.980 --> 01:39:45.980]  you run your own business.
[01:39:45.980 --> 01:39:47.620]  If you're not opening,
[01:39:47.620 --> 01:39:48.980]  cause I know guys that just say, hey, look,
[01:39:48.980 --> 01:39:51.020]  like I'm not gonna bother with a business bank account.
[01:39:51.020 --> 01:39:52.540]  I'm not gonna open an LLC.
[01:39:53.580 --> 01:39:56.300]  I'm just gonna take payments through these third parties
[01:39:56.300 --> 01:40:00.060]  and friends and family is, you know,
[01:40:00.060 --> 01:40:01.380]  cause there's an option on some of these pay,
[01:40:01.380 --> 01:40:03.020]  like, oh, if it's PayPal, it's friends and family.
[01:40:03.020 --> 01:40:04.300]  It's not for a product or service.
[01:40:04.300 --> 01:40:05.900]  So that's a way to kind of get around that.
[01:40:05.900 --> 01:40:07.660]  So I'm sure there's more digging
[01:40:07.660 --> 01:40:09.460]  that needs to be done on that end.
[01:40:10.460 --> 01:40:14.580]  Well, you know, people oftentimes they'll drop me an email
[01:40:14.580 --> 01:40:16.500]  before they purchase Income Tax Shattering the Mist.
[01:40:16.500 --> 01:40:20.580]  And they wanna know, they ask a question which telegraphs,
[01:40:20.580 --> 01:40:21.860]  what they're really asking is,
[01:40:21.860 --> 01:40:24.940]  is Income Tax Shattering the Mist a guide
[01:40:24.940 --> 01:40:28.260]  to how to leave the income tax behind?
[01:40:28.260 --> 01:40:30.260]  And I think you would agree,
[01:40:31.140 --> 01:40:33.420]  all the information is in there
[01:40:33.420 --> 01:40:37.500]  for a person with an entrepreneurial spirit
[01:40:37.500 --> 01:40:38.940]  and some intelligence,
[01:40:38.940 --> 01:40:40.460]  all the tools are in there
[01:40:40.460 --> 01:40:43.540]  for them to walk away intelligently.
[01:40:43.540 --> 01:40:47.740]  But that's different than being confident
[01:40:47.740 --> 01:40:51.180]  about the exact mechanisms, okay?
[01:40:51.180 --> 01:40:53.900]  And I think that's a challenge to a lot,
[01:40:53.900 --> 01:40:56.260]  an understandable challenge to a lot of people.
[01:40:56.260 --> 01:40:59.140]  So like, what are in a world
[01:40:59.140 --> 01:41:02.900]  where everybody else has not read the law,
[01:41:02.900 --> 01:41:05.500]  everybody else is a dumb fuck,
[01:41:05.500 --> 01:41:10.300]  what mechanism, what are the mechanisms
[01:41:10.300 --> 01:41:12.740]  that I can use to protect myself?
[01:41:12.940 --> 01:41:14.300]  I get that that's a challenge.
[01:41:14.300 --> 01:41:16.340]  And you know, if I can help somebody drop me an email,
[01:41:16.340 --> 01:41:18.060]  David, drreality.news.
[01:41:19.020 --> 01:41:20.660]  Very good.
[01:41:20.660 --> 01:41:21.780]  Well, Dave, I'm looking at the questions,
[01:41:21.780 --> 01:41:23.780]  we don't have anybody else backstage.
[01:41:24.860 --> 01:41:27.340]  Yeah, this has been fantastic.
[01:41:27.340 --> 01:41:28.180]  Really quick.
[01:41:28.180 --> 01:41:30.740]  Okay, so I wanna say something to your audience.
[01:41:30.740 --> 01:41:31.660]  Yeah, please do.
[01:41:31.660 --> 01:41:36.660]  I know, I know your audience has more questions.
[01:41:37.020 --> 01:41:37.860]  Of course.
[01:41:37.860 --> 01:41:41.660]  Go ahead and ask them, I will be kind, I promise.
[01:41:41.700 --> 01:41:44.500]  Don't miss this opportunity.
[01:41:46.620 --> 01:41:49.180]  If you got the questions, now is the time.
[01:41:49.180 --> 01:41:51.620]  Because I experienced this a lot on interviews.
[01:41:51.620 --> 01:41:53.060]  Right.
[01:41:53.060 --> 01:41:55.820]  That people get, I don't know, I don't know,
[01:41:55.820 --> 01:41:58.780]  I don't know if intimidated is the right word,
[01:41:58.780 --> 01:42:00.380]  but don't be intimidated.
[01:42:00.380 --> 01:42:02.340]  Ask the question, I'll give you the answers
[01:42:02.340 --> 01:42:04.300]  as straight as I know how to give it to you.
[01:42:04.300 --> 01:42:05.140]  Without judging.
[01:42:05.140 --> 01:42:06.340]  Well, there's a lot of folks that like to sit
[01:42:06.340 --> 01:42:08.140]  in the comments and spew this and that.
[01:42:08.140 --> 01:42:10.780]  I mean, there's one guy in here that's typing in all caps,
[01:42:10.820 --> 01:42:13.540]  and he's been going nuts for the last hour.
[01:42:13.540 --> 01:42:16.580]  And we get this gentleman that keeps trying to call in.
[01:42:16.580 --> 01:42:19.700]  So if you can hear me, if you guys are understood,
[01:42:19.700 --> 01:42:20.940]  when you come back into the StreamYard,
[01:42:20.940 --> 01:42:23.300]  you have to enable your camera and video,
[01:42:23.300 --> 01:42:25.420]  otherwise I cannot bring you on stage.
[01:42:25.420 --> 01:42:28.300]  So we have someone that keeps coming back into the back,
[01:42:28.300 --> 01:42:30.940]  into the backstage, you have to enable
[01:42:30.940 --> 01:42:32.620]  your camera and microphone access
[01:42:32.620 --> 01:42:34.020]  to get access to the stage.
[01:42:34.020 --> 01:42:36.580]  So hopefully you're listening to this.
[01:42:36.580 --> 01:42:38.580]  I want Mr. All Caps to call.
[01:42:38.580 --> 01:42:39.620]  I would love him to.
[01:42:39.620 --> 01:42:43.340]  I mean, you know, like he's saying you're not certified
[01:42:43.340 --> 01:42:45.540]  and you know, this is all BS.
[01:42:45.540 --> 01:42:48.340]  Joe Biden says $600 for PayPal.
[01:42:48.340 --> 01:42:52.060]  I mean, you know, he's going back.
[01:42:52.060 --> 01:42:54.060]  I'm here to say, look, this is, I'm here to refute.
[01:42:54.060 --> 01:42:57.060]  Well, come up, you know, please, like, please say something
[01:42:57.060 --> 01:42:58.300]  or please put in a question.
[01:42:58.300 --> 01:43:01.820]  I mean, I don't know if he will call in though,
[01:43:01.820 --> 01:43:03.300]  but we go through this quite often
[01:43:03.300 --> 01:43:04.900]  where we've got guys that disagree.
[01:43:04.900 --> 01:43:05.900]  Like as soon as the show is over,
[01:43:05.900 --> 01:43:07.820]  the comments will be full of this guy's a fraud,
[01:43:08.420 --> 01:43:11.620]  but they won't, you know, kind of call in and share that
[01:43:11.620 --> 01:43:14.300]  and go toe to toe and in live in real time.
[01:43:14.300 --> 01:43:17.580]  So it's something we're definitely used to on this channel.
[01:43:17.580 --> 01:43:19.260]  Yeah. Home of the brave.
[01:43:19.260 --> 01:43:20.100]  Yeah, indeed.
[01:43:20.100 --> 01:43:23.180]  So, but yeah, guys, I mean, look, like call in.
[01:43:23.180 --> 01:43:25.260]  If you got questions, I'm going to kind of go through here
[01:43:25.260 --> 01:43:26.260]  and see if there's anything else
[01:43:26.260 --> 01:43:28.700]  that we're sort of missing here.
[01:43:28.700 --> 01:43:30.820]  Give you guys another, you know, a couple of minutes
[01:43:30.820 --> 01:43:35.820]  to go ahead and submit some questions.
[01:43:38.500 --> 01:43:40.060]  But I know that Nick wanted to ask that.
[01:43:40.060 --> 01:43:41.540]  I know he was asking about, you know,
[01:43:41.540 --> 01:43:44.100]  through certain brokerages and things like that.
[01:43:44.100 --> 01:43:48.460]  So I know he wouldn't want to ask that question.
[01:43:48.460 --> 01:43:49.300]  Yeah, like, here's the thing,
[01:43:49.300 --> 01:43:51.740]  like Ask Dave is a profession.
[01:43:51.740 --> 01:43:53.380]  You have a professional credential,
[01:43:53.380 --> 01:43:54.740]  like whatever that might mean.
[01:43:54.740 --> 01:43:56.300]  So I'm not sure.
[01:43:56.300 --> 01:43:57.660]  I mean, you've read the law,
[01:43:57.660 --> 01:43:59.660]  like that's what I always tell folks.
[01:43:59.660 --> 01:44:01.420]  And it's there for you to read too.
[01:44:02.380 --> 01:44:04.420]  And I've read it for 30 years.
[01:44:04.420 --> 01:44:05.260]  Right.
[01:44:08.340 --> 01:44:12.060]  The question is just so odd because it's like,
[01:44:12.060 --> 01:44:14.940]  so yes, the government offers a credential
[01:44:16.460 --> 01:44:18.940]  to people who say the government's full of shit
[01:44:18.940 --> 01:44:21.900]  and they've been spreading disinformation for 60 years.
[01:44:21.900 --> 01:44:24.580]  Yes, there's a government certificate for that.
[01:44:26.580 --> 01:44:29.940]  I know, like, Cain, call into the show, man.
[01:44:29.940 --> 01:44:31.500]  You don't need to email us.
[01:44:31.500 --> 01:44:32.340]  Please just call.
[01:44:32.340 --> 01:44:34.060]  If you want to come in and like, I don't know,
[01:44:34.060 --> 01:44:34.900]  state your claim, man.
[01:44:34.900 --> 01:44:36.100]  I would love to hear what you had to say.
[01:44:36.100 --> 01:44:39.300]  We got our guy that finally got his video set up.
[01:44:39.300 --> 01:44:41.020]  But go ahead quick, Dave.
[01:44:41.020 --> 01:44:44.620]  So while we're waiting, I'll give you an example.
[01:44:46.060 --> 01:44:47.700]  When I first wrote Income Tax Shattering the Mist,
[01:44:47.700 --> 01:44:50.340]  we were aware of eight treasury decisions
[01:44:50.340 --> 01:44:52.540]  saying that a 1040 is to be used
[01:44:52.540 --> 01:44:55.380]  only by non-resident aliens with a US source income
[01:44:55.380 --> 01:44:57.820]  or the non-resident alien's domestic agent.
[01:44:57.820 --> 01:45:00.380]  So now here in 2024,
[01:45:00.380 --> 01:45:03.700]  we have 11 treasury decisions that say that, right?
[01:45:04.700 --> 01:45:07.980]  So that's the income tax as we sit here talking now.
[01:45:07.980 --> 01:45:09.820]  It's been around 111 years.
[01:45:09.820 --> 01:45:13.260]  So that's a treasury decision every decade
[01:45:13.260 --> 01:45:15.700]  saying the 1040s are to be used exclusively
[01:45:15.700 --> 01:45:17.980]  by non-resident aliens with US source income
[01:45:17.980 --> 01:45:20.020]  or their domestic agent, 11.
[01:45:21.020 --> 01:45:23.660]  And you've probably heard me say this before, Chris.
[01:45:23.660 --> 01:45:26.700]  So tell me, how many treasury decisions do you think
[01:45:26.700 --> 01:45:30.940]  say that anyone other than a non-resident alien
[01:45:30.940 --> 01:45:32.740]  or the non-resident alien's domestic agent
[01:45:32.740 --> 01:45:34.540]  is to file a 1040?
[01:45:34.540 --> 01:45:36.420]  The answer is zero.
[01:45:36.420 --> 01:45:37.260]  Zero.
[01:45:38.100 --> 01:45:43.100]  So, and I always, I would love to sit with an IRS official
[01:45:43.740 --> 01:45:48.140]  and say to them, so here's what your boss,
[01:45:48.140 --> 01:45:50.140]  the secretary of the treasury has said.
[01:45:51.220 --> 01:45:52.380]  You're claiming something else.
[01:45:52.380 --> 01:45:57.020]  Where's the treasury decision that supports your position?
[01:45:58.700 --> 01:46:00.460]  So I share that to make the point
[01:46:00.500 --> 01:46:05.500]  that people who are certified, whatever the hell that is,
[01:46:09.660 --> 01:46:10.860]  I think you would agree, Chris,
[01:46:10.860 --> 01:46:12.140]  having read income tax shatter and miss,
[01:46:12.140 --> 01:46:17.140]  the people who are certified don't know any of the facts
[01:46:17.220 --> 01:46:19.340]  they'll find in income tax shatter and miss, zero.
[01:46:19.340 --> 01:46:24.340]  And my experience with HR people and CFOs and CEOs
[01:46:25.220 --> 01:46:29.020]  and tax attorneys, my experience over the last 30 years
[01:46:29.060 --> 01:46:32.980]  confirms they don't know what the hell the law says.
[01:46:32.980 --> 01:46:36.340]  I had an online conversation with an attorney the other day
[01:46:36.340 --> 01:46:39.980]  and I said, you guys are as bad as the general public.
[01:46:39.980 --> 01:46:43.140]  You repeat what someone else told you.
[01:46:43.140 --> 01:46:45.380]  You have no idea what the law says.
[01:46:45.380 --> 01:46:47.620]  And he shut up in one way because it's true.
[01:46:48.780 --> 01:46:50.740]  We got Nick back.
[01:46:50.740 --> 01:46:53.460]  But he's certified, that's the important part.
[01:46:53.460 --> 01:46:54.300]  Right, the certification is what matters.
[01:46:54.300 --> 01:46:57.020]  No, I'm saying the attorney has the certification,
[01:46:57.020 --> 01:46:58.260]  so that's the important part.
[01:46:58.380 --> 01:46:59.860]  Nick, you had something else?
[01:46:59.860 --> 01:47:02.100]  Sure, yeah, this was one that I forgot that I had.
[01:47:02.100 --> 01:47:04.340]  Or really when you talked about a quote unquote
[01:47:04.340 --> 01:47:06.460]  financial institution in a very general sense,
[01:47:06.460 --> 01:47:08.300]  I understand what you mean by that.
[01:47:08.300 --> 01:47:10.060]  Money flowing from one person to another
[01:47:10.060 --> 01:47:11.660]  and they'll treat you that way.
[01:47:11.660 --> 01:47:16.100]  So my question is, if I were to form an LLP,
[01:47:16.100 --> 01:47:18.380]  like a private placement memorandum, right?
[01:47:18.380 --> 01:47:20.140]  So I could form like say a small hedge fund
[01:47:20.140 --> 01:47:22.060]  without having to worry about accredited investors
[01:47:22.060 --> 01:47:23.340]  and such and such, right?
[01:47:24.180 --> 01:47:29.180]  If I were doing that, would I need to send out
[01:47:31.500 --> 01:47:36.260]  like identification type forms on every member of that LLP
[01:47:36.260 --> 01:47:37.580]  when we do disbursements?
[01:47:38.540 --> 01:47:40.740]  Two, would I have to send those out to IRS?
[01:47:42.940 --> 01:47:44.780]  That depends.
[01:47:44.780 --> 01:47:47.860]  If you have, I'm gonna call them customers
[01:47:47.860 --> 01:47:50.220]  for the sake of this discussion.
[01:47:50.220 --> 01:47:52.700]  If you have customers who are non-resident aliens
[01:47:52.700 --> 01:47:57.500]  in foreign corporations and your LLP is serving
[01:47:57.500 --> 01:48:00.500]  as part of the pipeline of US source income
[01:48:00.500 --> 01:48:03.300]  to the non-resident alien foreign corporation,
[01:48:03.300 --> 01:48:05.900]  then the LLP would be required to withhold the tax
[01:48:05.900 --> 01:48:08.620]  and file the returns and pay it over to the government.
[01:48:08.620 --> 01:48:12.140]  So if they were American persons or LLPs
[01:48:12.140 --> 01:48:14.460]  that let's just use the term service,
[01:48:14.460 --> 01:48:17.460]  all American persons, nobody's foreign.
[01:48:17.460 --> 01:48:21.260]  In that case, would I not be required to send out
[01:48:21.340 --> 01:48:23.220]  documents that identify who those members are
[01:48:23.220 --> 01:48:24.540]  and the fact that we dispersed to them
[01:48:24.540 --> 01:48:26.980]  and how much those disbursements were, et cetera?
[01:48:28.660 --> 01:48:31.260]  Okay, so now-
[01:48:31.260 --> 01:48:32.820]  I know that's like, I know that's,
[01:48:32.820 --> 01:48:35.260]  first of all, let me like back up.
[01:48:35.260 --> 01:48:37.340]  If anybody knew this answer off the top of their head,
[01:48:37.340 --> 01:48:38.580]  I would like bow down to you.
[01:48:38.580 --> 01:48:40.340]  So if you don't like know this one off the top of your head,
[01:48:40.340 --> 01:48:42.460]  it's like super, super specific.
[01:48:42.460 --> 01:48:44.940]  I know you might have to get back to me on this one,
[01:48:44.940 --> 01:48:47.340]  but that's just a question that I have.
[01:48:47.340 --> 01:48:48.380]  So here's the thing.
[01:48:49.380 --> 01:48:52.740]  What you're getting into now might fall
[01:48:52.740 --> 01:48:56.820]  into the category of SEC regulations, not income tax,
[01:48:56.820 --> 01:48:58.380]  but there would be no requirement
[01:48:58.380 --> 01:49:00.700]  to do that concerning income tax.
[01:49:00.700 --> 01:49:04.700]  And by the way, I have a form that I give people for free
[01:49:04.700 --> 01:49:06.820]  in place of a form W-9.
[01:49:06.820 --> 01:49:09.300]  So for companies where say the owner
[01:49:09.300 --> 01:49:12.100]  or the business manager knows the truth of the income tax
[01:49:13.180 --> 01:49:16.580]  and doesn't want to ask their customers
[01:49:16.660 --> 01:49:18.540]  or the people they're paying say they're vendors,
[01:49:18.540 --> 01:49:21.300]  they don't wanna ask their vendors to fill out a W-9.
[01:49:22.820 --> 01:49:25.540]  Anybody who emails me and asks me for this form,
[01:49:25.540 --> 01:49:28.020]  it's called a status questionnaire.
[01:49:28.020 --> 01:49:29.580]  I just send it to them.
[01:49:29.580 --> 01:49:31.060]  So they can use that.
[01:49:31.060 --> 01:49:34.060]  And basically the way the status questionnaire works is this.
[01:49:34.060 --> 01:49:36.780]  If the person signs the status questionnaire
[01:49:36.780 --> 01:49:39.060]  and checks these boxes,
[01:49:39.060 --> 01:49:41.500]  you don't need to get a W-9 from them.
[01:49:41.500 --> 01:49:43.460]  If they sign it under penalty of perjury
[01:49:43.460 --> 01:49:45.740]  and check these other boxes,
[01:49:45.780 --> 01:49:47.820]  then you need to get a W-9 from them.
[01:49:47.820 --> 01:49:49.780]  Gotcha, yeah, it's like a filter.
[01:49:50.780 --> 01:49:51.860]  Yeah, exactly sir.
[01:49:51.860 --> 01:49:55.060]  So in your case, where you're talking about this venture
[01:49:55.060 --> 01:49:56.140]  that you have in mind,
[01:49:57.380 --> 01:49:59.700]  if it were me in your shoes,
[01:49:59.700 --> 01:50:03.100]  I would use the status questionnaire
[01:50:03.100 --> 01:50:07.180]  to ensure that I am protected
[01:50:07.180 --> 01:50:12.180]  that I'm not dispensing US source income to foreign persons.
[01:50:13.180 --> 01:50:14.380]  Gotcha, yeah, that makes sense.
[01:50:14.380 --> 01:50:16.980]  So that form would under penalty of perjury,
[01:50:16.980 --> 01:50:20.620]  like obviously, that would serve the purpose
[01:50:20.620 --> 01:50:21.900]  of showing that I've done my diligence
[01:50:21.900 --> 01:50:23.380]  on all members of the LLP.
[01:50:24.380 --> 01:50:25.380]  Exactly sir.
[01:50:25.380 --> 01:50:26.300]  All right, that's good.
[01:50:26.300 --> 01:50:27.500]  I may have to fire you off an email.
[01:50:27.500 --> 01:50:29.260]  Actually, I emailed you about a week or two ago
[01:50:29.260 --> 01:50:30.080]  and you got back.
[01:50:30.080 --> 01:50:30.920]  I'm like, that's amazing.
[01:50:30.920 --> 01:50:32.060]  Somebody actually got back.
[01:50:32.060 --> 01:50:33.140]  That was really cool.
[01:50:33.140 --> 01:50:38.140]  Well, I always say I'm here to try and help people.
[01:50:38.980 --> 01:50:40.020]  Awesome, hey, thanks again.
[01:50:40.020 --> 01:50:41.260]  That's all I had.
[01:50:41.260 --> 01:50:42.100]  Right on, thanks.
[01:50:42.100 --> 01:50:43.820]  Take care.
[01:50:43.820 --> 01:50:45.420]  All right, let's bring up Mike next, Mike.
[01:50:45.420 --> 01:50:46.260]  You got a question?
[01:50:46.260 --> 01:50:47.100]  I was gonna show you in the chat, Mike,
[01:50:47.100 --> 01:50:48.060]  but yeah, go ahead.
[01:50:48.060 --> 01:50:49.780]  You're asking about withholding?
[01:50:49.780 --> 01:50:51.120]  Yeah, I figured I'd pop in.
[01:50:51.120 --> 01:50:55.060]  First, I wanna tell Dave thanks for his work on the book.
[01:50:56.020 --> 01:50:57.340]  I've read a lot of books in my life.
[01:50:57.340 --> 01:50:58.900]  I'm 63 years old.
[01:50:58.900 --> 01:51:02.340]  It's hands down the best book I've ever read.
[01:51:02.340 --> 01:51:03.780]  And in fact- Thank you Mike.
[01:51:03.780 --> 01:51:06.380]  And in fact, in terms of its impact on my life,
[01:51:06.380 --> 01:51:09.500]  though I'm still working through my exit strategy.
[01:51:09.500 --> 01:51:11.460]  So thank you for that.
[01:51:11.460 --> 01:51:13.860]  And I feel like I've got a pretty good grasp
[01:51:13.860 --> 01:51:15.180]  on all the material in the book.
[01:51:15.180 --> 01:51:16.820]  Most of it, at least as much as a guy
[01:51:16.820 --> 01:51:20.060]  that's been working on this for about four years now can have.
[01:51:20.940 --> 01:51:24.140]  But I still, for some reason, I'm struggling with
[01:51:24.140 --> 01:51:26.500]  what's the difference between regular withholding
[01:51:26.500 --> 01:51:27.740]  and backup withholding?
[01:51:27.740 --> 01:51:30.340]  Can you help me understand that a little better?
[01:51:30.340 --> 01:51:31.540]  Sure, okay.
[01:51:31.540 --> 01:51:36.540]  So we have to distinguish the kinds of withholding
[01:51:38.700 --> 01:51:39.540]  to begin with.
[01:51:40.220 --> 01:51:42.260]  There's payroll withholding.
[01:51:42.260 --> 01:51:43.900]  That's what the public calls it, payroll withholding.
[01:51:43.900 --> 01:51:47.220]  The IRS calls it wage withholding, okay?
[01:51:47.220 --> 01:51:50.020]  And then there is generalized withholding,
[01:51:50.020 --> 01:51:51.860]  the kind that we've been talking about most frequently
[01:51:51.860 --> 01:51:53.460]  during the course of this call.
[01:51:53.460 --> 01:51:58.260]  And that is, for instance, when we use the example earlier
[01:51:58.260 --> 01:52:01.500]  with Peugeot had sent a million dollars to a brokerage firm
[01:52:01.500 --> 01:52:02.980]  who invested in Apple, okay?
[01:52:02.980 --> 01:52:07.980]  So that is, we'll call it the high level withholding, okay?
[01:52:08.180 --> 01:52:10.460]  Which is different than wage withholding.
[01:52:10.460 --> 01:52:13.460]  So you got this high level or just ordinary withholding.
[01:52:13.460 --> 01:52:16.060]  And then you've got wage withholding, okay?
[01:52:16.060 --> 01:52:21.060]  So there is no backup withholding on wage withholding.
[01:52:21.980 --> 01:52:23.860]  Let me clarify that, okay?
[01:52:23.860 --> 01:52:27.380]  So we can, in terms of backup withholding,
[01:52:27.380 --> 01:52:30.180]  we can take wage withholding and move it out of you.
[01:52:30.180 --> 01:52:34.060]  So that leaves us with plain old withholding, okay?
[01:52:34.060 --> 01:52:39.060]  So there are a couple of lengthy documents,
[01:52:39.900 --> 01:52:41.820]  but it sounds like you're not averse to research,
[01:52:41.820 --> 01:52:43.540]  so I'm gonna throw them out there to you.
[01:52:43.540 --> 01:52:47.420]  There's Treasury Decision 8734
[01:52:47.420 --> 01:52:52.060]  and Treasury Decision 8881, okay?
[01:52:52.060 --> 01:52:56.620]  And they talk about withholding and backup withholding.
[01:52:56.620 --> 01:52:59.500]  So let me explain how this works, okay?
[01:52:59.500 --> 01:53:01.940]  So remember we talked about the domestic agent,
[01:53:01.940 --> 01:53:06.780]  otherwise known as a US person in tax law, okay?
[01:53:06.780 --> 01:53:09.060]  So again, we're gonna go back to the Peugeot
[01:53:09.060 --> 01:53:11.140]  and the brokerage and the Apple, okay?
[01:53:11.140 --> 01:53:13.860]  So the American brokerage firm,
[01:53:14.780 --> 01:53:18.100]  they need to pay these Apple dividends to Peugeot.
[01:53:19.180 --> 01:53:23.660]  So they say to Peugeot, let me go back,
[01:53:23.660 --> 01:53:25.640]  Apple says to the brokerage firm,
[01:53:26.740 --> 01:53:30.020]  we need to know whether what we're paying
[01:53:30.020 --> 01:53:31.540]  is going to a foreign person.
[01:53:32.620 --> 01:53:36.300]  So the brokerage firm gives Apple a form W-9.
[01:53:38.180 --> 01:53:42.460]  So then Apple knows it's paying its own US source income
[01:53:42.460 --> 01:53:46.300]  into the pipeline going to the foreign person, okay?
[01:53:47.660 --> 01:53:50.260]  Now, let's say the brokerage firm
[01:53:50.260 --> 01:53:54.380]  refuses to give Apple a W-9.
[01:53:56.260 --> 01:53:59.020]  That leaves Apple in the position of having no clue
[01:54:00.020 --> 01:54:02.180]  where this money is,
[01:54:02.180 --> 01:54:05.340]  who the owner is, where this money is going to.
[01:54:05.340 --> 01:54:08.340]  So without some form of certification,
[01:54:10.220 --> 01:54:13.420]  then Apple would do backup withholding.
[01:54:13.420 --> 01:54:17.420]  In other words, Apple's position under the tax code
[01:54:17.420 --> 01:54:21.340]  would be you have refused
[01:54:21.340 --> 01:54:23.780]  to give us the correct status of this account.
[01:54:25.180 --> 01:54:27.420]  Behind you, the brokerage firm,
[01:54:27.420 --> 01:54:29.820]  we don't know whether this is Susie Rottenpratsch
[01:54:29.820 --> 01:54:30.780]  living in LA,
[01:54:32.100 --> 01:54:35.940]  or we don't know whether it's this French corporation.
[01:54:37.500 --> 01:54:41.060]  You have left us blind by failing to give us a certification.
[01:54:43.020 --> 01:54:45.820]  Certification being under penalty perjury, right?
[01:54:45.820 --> 01:54:50.100]  So in that case, Apple would initiate backup withholding
[01:54:50.980 --> 01:54:54.460]  because of the refusal of the brokerage firm
[01:54:54.460 --> 01:54:56.320]  to provide information to Apple.
[01:54:57.200 --> 01:55:01.400]  So in essence, it's basically withholding without a form,
[01:55:01.400 --> 01:55:04.160]  without a W-9 form, or a form.
[01:55:04.160 --> 01:55:05.480]  Correct, correct.
[01:55:05.480 --> 01:55:08.080]  And then it would be Apple's responsibility
[01:55:08.080 --> 01:55:12.600]  to file a return, a specific return for withholding
[01:55:12.600 --> 01:55:14.040]  in that circumstance,
[01:55:14.040 --> 01:55:16.360]  and to pay that money over to the United States government.
[01:55:16.360 --> 01:55:17.760]  Gotcha, but this doesn't really apply
[01:55:17.760 --> 01:55:21.720]  to like regular W-2 employment payroll type stuff.
[01:55:21.720 --> 01:55:24.000]  Not at all, the two are complete.
[01:55:24.000 --> 01:55:24.840]  Yes, when it comes to,
[01:55:25.120 --> 01:55:28.000]  that's the reason I brought up 8734 and 8881
[01:55:28.000 --> 01:55:32.960]  is because I know these are lengthy, lengthy documents,
[01:55:32.960 --> 01:55:36.260]  but in there you will find that backup withholding
[01:55:36.260 --> 01:55:38.780]  has no applicability to wage withholding.
[01:55:39.960 --> 01:55:42.680]  Gotcha, okay, that helps.
[01:55:42.680 --> 01:55:44.120]  I don't know for the life of me
[01:55:44.120 --> 01:55:46.360]  why I couldn't just kind of put that together myself,
[01:55:46.360 --> 01:55:49.360]  but thank you so much, that clarified it.
[01:55:49.360 --> 01:55:51.040]  All right, Mike, thanks very much for the call.
[01:55:51.040 --> 01:55:51.960]  Have a super day.
[01:55:51.960 --> 01:55:52.800]  Thanks, Mike.
[01:55:53.800 --> 01:55:56.200]  All right, just checking the chat one more time,
[01:55:56.200 --> 01:55:59.760]  doing a once over, coming about a two hours here.
[01:55:59.760 --> 01:56:01.320]  Yeah, guys, if you have any final things you want,
[01:56:01.320 --> 01:56:04.640]  I know there's our guy Kane is just going nuts
[01:56:04.640 --> 01:56:07.080]  in the chat right now, but yeah,
[01:56:07.080 --> 01:56:08.920]  it doesn't look like he's gonna call in.
[01:56:08.920 --> 01:56:09.760]  Is that Mr. All Caps?
[01:56:09.760 --> 01:56:11.760]  Mr. All Caps, yeah, exactly.
[01:56:11.760 --> 01:56:13.740]  So, yeah, but he's welcome to come in.
[01:56:13.740 --> 01:56:15.200]  I mean, we're happy to have him,
[01:56:15.200 --> 01:56:18.760]  but I don't know if it's gonna happen this time around.
[01:56:18.760 --> 01:56:20.920]  By the way, speaking of guys like him,
[01:56:21.080 --> 01:56:24.040]  yeah, you know, people ask me
[01:56:24.040 --> 01:56:27.120]  why I didn't write Income Back Shattering the Mist earlier.
[01:56:27.120 --> 01:56:31.600]  And I had started and stopped writing it about six times.
[01:56:31.600 --> 01:56:36.600]  And the reason that I didn't pull the trigger until 2009
[01:56:38.640 --> 01:56:40.400]  and really pumped that book out
[01:56:41.800 --> 01:56:44.960]  was because if I'm going to charge somebody money, right?
[01:56:44.960 --> 01:56:47.080]  I mean, I'm selling the book, yes.
[01:56:47.080 --> 01:56:50.120]  I consider it my ethical obligation
[01:56:50.120 --> 01:56:55.120]  that I am, if not the national expert on the subject,
[01:56:56.480 --> 01:56:57.980]  certainly damn close.
[01:56:59.400 --> 01:57:01.920]  Otherwise, ethically, I can't ask people to pay me.
[01:57:01.920 --> 01:57:03.480]  Sure.
[01:57:03.480 --> 01:57:07.880]  So the standard I set for myself was
[01:57:09.200 --> 01:57:14.120]  if the DOJ tax division, you know what speed dating is?
[01:57:14.120 --> 01:57:15.600]  Oh, yeah.
[01:57:15.600 --> 01:57:20.600]  Okay, so imagine it's like a speed dating thing.
[01:57:20.960 --> 01:57:25.320]  I'm sitting at a table and every time the buzzer sounds,
[01:57:25.320 --> 01:57:28.760]  another DOJ attorney sits down and hammers me
[01:57:28.760 --> 01:57:31.000]  with a question about the income tax, right?
[01:57:31.000 --> 01:57:33.720]  And then I answer the question and the buzzer thing
[01:57:33.720 --> 01:57:35.880]  and the next person, okay.
[01:57:35.880 --> 01:57:38.280]  I set the standard for myself
[01:57:38.280 --> 01:57:42.480]  that unless I could completely dispatch
[01:57:42.480 --> 01:57:47.480]  every single argument correctly, legally, factually,
[01:57:47.520 --> 01:57:49.880]  dispatch and destroy every argument
[01:57:49.880 --> 01:57:52.840]  the DOJ tax division attorney would put in front of me
[01:57:52.840 --> 01:57:56.700]  until I could say to myself, I can do that.
[01:57:57.560 --> 01:57:59.440]  I could not ethically ask anybody else
[01:57:59.440 --> 01:58:01.880]  to pay me money for what's in the book.
[01:58:01.880 --> 01:58:04.280]  And when I was absolutely certain
[01:58:04.280 --> 01:58:05.840]  that I could meet that standard,
[01:58:05.840 --> 01:58:07.040]  that's when I published.
[01:58:09.200 --> 01:58:11.320]  It's man of integrity right there.
[01:58:11.320 --> 01:58:12.680]  Steve, we had Steve pop in.
[01:58:12.680 --> 01:58:15.240]  I don't know if this is our guy, but Steve you're on.
[01:58:15.240 --> 01:58:16.080]  You got a question?
[01:58:16.080 --> 01:58:16.920]  You got a question.
[01:58:16.920 --> 01:58:18.640]  Hey Moff, how's it going?
[01:58:18.640 --> 01:58:19.480]  Good man, what's up?
[01:58:19.480 --> 01:58:20.440]  Can you hear me?
[01:58:20.440 --> 01:58:21.720]  Yep.
[01:58:21.720 --> 01:58:23.920]  Dave, I just wanted to say thank you for your time and work.
[01:58:23.920 --> 01:58:26.040]  I really appreciate it.
[01:58:26.040 --> 01:58:28.360]  I have implemented the strategy successfully
[01:58:28.360 --> 01:58:29.680]  for about 10 years now.
[01:58:29.680 --> 01:58:32.240]  I have not had any problems with the IRS.
[01:58:32.240 --> 01:58:34.240]  And a question that I get a lot
[01:58:34.240 --> 01:58:37.000]  is how do I shut down an audit?
[01:58:37.000 --> 01:58:39.680]  And I know this is highly unlikely if you,
[01:58:39.680 --> 01:58:41.640]  especially if you don't fill out the forms,
[01:58:41.640 --> 01:58:43.780]  if you don't fill out a W-4.
[01:58:43.780 --> 01:58:47.480]  But my response was,
[01:58:47.480 --> 01:58:49.600]  and this has not happened to me personally,
[01:58:49.600 --> 01:58:52.040]  to tell the IRS to pound sand,
[01:58:52.040 --> 01:58:54.200]  to not answer their questions
[01:58:54.200 --> 01:58:56.600]  and say, come back with a court order.
[01:58:56.600 --> 01:58:59.400]  What is your answer to that, the audit question?
[01:58:59.400 --> 01:59:00.800]  How do I shut down an audit?
[01:59:01.720 --> 01:59:03.880]  Okay, so what the public calls an audit,
[01:59:03.880 --> 01:59:06.800]  the internal evidence service calls an examination.
[01:59:06.800 --> 01:59:09.720]  And respectfully, I'm gonna disagree
[01:59:09.720 --> 01:59:10.960]  with your approach to that.
[01:59:13.640 --> 01:59:16.080]  Remember, I talked earlier in the interview
[01:59:16.080 --> 01:59:17.520]  about the evidentiary record?
[01:59:18.480 --> 01:59:19.840]  Yeah.
[01:59:19.840 --> 01:59:24.840]  Okay, so, and the evidentiary record is part of the response
[01:59:25.060 --> 01:59:26.360]  because here's the thing.
[01:59:28.960 --> 01:59:31.040]  I'm trying to go up to the 35,000 foot level on this,
[01:59:31.040 --> 01:59:32.820]  so let me get my words correct.
[01:59:33.820 --> 01:59:37.540]  Congress has imposed the income tax on,
[01:59:37.540 --> 01:59:40.740]  and again, I'm gonna ignore the whole living abroad thing.
[01:59:40.740 --> 01:59:43.260]  Okay, so I'm just gonna focus on two classes.
[01:59:43.260 --> 01:59:44.860]  Congress has imposed the income tax
[01:59:44.860 --> 01:59:47.500]  on two classes of persons, non-resident aliens
[01:59:47.500 --> 01:59:49.900]  and foreign corporations with US source income.
[01:59:50.900 --> 01:59:54.100]  So who does the government have authority,
[01:59:54.100 --> 01:59:55.540]  whose tax returns does the government
[01:59:55.540 --> 01:59:57.020]  have authority to examine?
[01:59:57.660 --> 01:59:59.620]  I think there's an issue with the audio.
[02:00:01.740 --> 02:00:02.580]  Can you hear?
[02:00:03.820 --> 02:00:05.220]  Steve, are you able to hear me?
[02:00:06.540 --> 02:00:08.220]  Yeah, I'm in the car.
[02:00:08.220 --> 02:00:09.860]  It's kind of cutting it out, hang on.
[02:00:09.860 --> 02:00:11.820]  Let's see if I can get a better connection.
[02:00:18.540 --> 02:00:19.740]  Are you there?
[02:00:19.740 --> 02:00:20.580]  Yeah.
[02:00:20.580 --> 02:00:21.420]  I'm here.
[02:00:22.980 --> 02:00:23.820]  Okay.
[02:00:24.660 --> 02:00:25.500]  Okay.
[02:00:27.500 --> 02:00:28.340]  Okay.
[02:00:28.340 --> 02:00:30.820]  So what I was saying is that Congress
[02:00:30.820 --> 02:00:34.100]  has imposed the income tax on those two classes of persons.
[02:00:34.100 --> 02:00:37.940]  So in terms of income tax, the IRS has authority
[02:00:37.940 --> 02:00:42.780]  to examine tax returns of only the persons
[02:00:42.780 --> 02:00:45.500]  upon whom Congress has imposed the tax.
[02:00:45.500 --> 02:00:47.600]  So when people say, well, what happens
[02:00:47.600 --> 02:00:48.900]  when they wanna audit you?
[02:00:48.940 --> 02:00:49.820]  Okay.
[02:00:49.820 --> 02:00:53.900]  Well, without an evidentiary record established
[02:00:53.900 --> 02:00:58.620]  where you're just some guy saying the words,
[02:00:58.620 --> 02:01:02.060]  I'm not liable, that's gonna get somebody nowhere.
[02:01:02.060 --> 02:01:02.900]  Okay.
[02:01:02.900 --> 02:01:04.500]  There has to be an evidentiary record
[02:01:05.340 --> 02:01:09.180]  and there's a specific way to provide this to the IRS
[02:01:09.180 --> 02:01:12.020]  that literally causes them to shut everything down
[02:01:12.020 --> 02:01:12.860]  and walk away.
[02:01:14.180 --> 02:01:17.980]  But not responding is not the right answer
[02:01:17.980 --> 02:01:20.140]  because when the government sends a letter,
[02:01:20.140 --> 02:01:21.380]  here's what the government typically does.
[02:01:21.380 --> 02:01:24.100]  They send a letter where they say,
[02:01:24.100 --> 02:01:26.780]  hey man, we believe you have to file a 1040.
[02:01:28.180 --> 02:01:30.140]  But that's not really what that letter means.
[02:01:30.140 --> 02:01:32.420]  Much like the lock-in letter we talked about earlier,
[02:01:32.420 --> 02:01:34.100]  what it says on the face is not necessarily
[02:01:34.100 --> 02:01:35.460]  what it legally means.
[02:01:35.460 --> 02:01:36.660]  Same thing is true here.
[02:01:38.100 --> 02:01:41.700]  What that letter actually means in law
[02:01:41.700 --> 02:01:45.260]  is the courts have mandated that we must extend
[02:01:45.260 --> 02:01:48.060]  a presumptive taxpayer due process
[02:01:48.060 --> 02:01:49.780]  to show us that we are mistaken.
[02:01:51.660 --> 02:01:53.220]  That's what that letter, when it says,
[02:01:53.220 --> 02:01:55.060]  hey man, we think you need to file a tax return,
[02:01:55.060 --> 02:01:57.420]  that's what it really means.
[02:01:57.420 --> 02:02:00.020]  We're functioning under a number of presumptions.
[02:02:00.020 --> 02:02:02.140]  We don't have all the necessary facts.
[02:02:02.140 --> 02:02:03.820]  We might be wrong.
[02:02:03.820 --> 02:02:06.300]  This is your due process opportunity
[02:02:06.300 --> 02:02:10.380]  as constitutionally mandated for you to explain to us
[02:02:10.380 --> 02:02:11.980]  why we are wrong.
[02:02:11.980 --> 02:02:12.820]  And as a matter of fact,
[02:02:12.820 --> 02:02:14.780]  while it does not say that on the letter,
[02:02:15.740 --> 02:02:17.220]  they keep renumbering the letters.
[02:02:17.220 --> 02:02:19.540]  So I apologize if I have this wrong.
[02:02:19.540 --> 02:02:24.540]  I think the latest title for that letter is CP54, I think.
[02:02:25.940 --> 02:02:27.740]  They've renumbered it a zillion times
[02:02:27.740 --> 02:02:29.140]  over the last 30 years.
[02:02:29.140 --> 02:02:32.340]  I think the current designation is CP54.
[02:02:32.340 --> 02:02:36.020]  If you look that up on the IRS's website,
[02:02:36.020 --> 02:02:38.740]  the second sentence where they describe it says,
[02:02:38.740 --> 02:02:41.260]  this is your opportunity to tell us why we are wrong.
[02:02:42.260 --> 02:02:46.660]  So when the government makes an allegation and says,
[02:02:46.660 --> 02:02:48.860]  this is your opportunity to tell us that we are wrong,
[02:02:48.860 --> 02:02:53.380]  we are extending you constitutionally mandated due process,
[02:02:53.380 --> 02:02:55.860]  my answer is shove it up their ass.
[02:02:55.860 --> 02:02:57.380]  Tell them what's going on.
[02:02:57.380 --> 02:02:58.300]  Tell them what the law says.
[02:02:58.300 --> 02:02:59.220]  Tell them who you are.
[02:02:59.220 --> 02:03:01.660]  File affidavits, file statements of law,
[02:03:01.660 --> 02:03:04.380]  respond appropriately to the allegation
[02:03:04.380 --> 02:03:06.620]  and they will go away.
[02:03:07.780 --> 02:03:09.220]  Let me ask you this Dave, what if the...
[02:03:09.220 --> 02:03:10.460]  So over the 10 years,
[02:03:10.460 --> 02:03:12.420]  I've heard from them a couple of times,
[02:03:12.420 --> 02:03:14.700]  but none of the letters have been certified
[02:03:14.700 --> 02:03:16.180]  and they were all essentially,
[02:03:16.180 --> 02:03:17.740]  hey, you didn't file.
[02:03:17.740 --> 02:03:19.780]  If you're required to file,
[02:03:19.780 --> 02:03:22.580]  here's a delinquent 1040 for you.
[02:03:22.580 --> 02:03:24.780]  So if the letters aren't certified,
[02:03:24.780 --> 02:03:27.700]  does that affect the...
[02:03:27.700 --> 02:03:30.140]  Does that mean something legally?
[02:03:32.900 --> 02:03:35.260]  That is an opportunity for due process,
[02:03:35.260 --> 02:03:40.260]  but apparently in your case,
[02:03:41.260 --> 02:03:45.700]  they did not act on your silence.
[02:03:45.700 --> 02:03:47.220]  And that's not a bad thing.
[02:03:47.220 --> 02:03:48.060]  That's a good thing.
[02:03:48.060 --> 02:03:49.420]  Okay.
[02:03:49.420 --> 02:03:53.420]  I would just never suggest that somebody goes silent.
[02:03:54.700 --> 02:03:56.940]  But of course, if they're phrasing it,
[02:03:56.940 --> 02:03:59.780]  if they use the word if,
[02:03:59.780 --> 02:04:03.420]  if you're liable or if you believe you're liable,
[02:04:03.420 --> 02:04:04.620]  you must file,
[02:04:04.620 --> 02:04:05.700]  then I would leave it alone
[02:04:05.700 --> 02:04:07.300]  because they're not making a declaration
[02:04:07.300 --> 02:04:08.540]  that you are required.
[02:04:08.580 --> 02:04:10.660]  There are some letters they send out that said,
[02:04:10.660 --> 02:04:12.540]  we believe you are required to file.
[02:04:12.540 --> 02:04:14.340]  Different language.
[02:04:14.340 --> 02:04:15.340]  Okay, understood.
[02:04:15.340 --> 02:04:17.220]  Cause they pussyfoot around a lot in my letters.
[02:04:17.220 --> 02:04:18.980]  They say, maybe, might.
[02:04:20.220 --> 02:04:21.900]  Yeah.
[02:04:21.900 --> 02:04:23.540]  I wouldn't respond to that one either.
[02:04:23.540 --> 02:04:24.380]  Yeah.
[02:04:24.380 --> 02:04:27.420]  If they're saying, if you're required, then file.
[02:04:27.420 --> 02:04:29.300]  I would say, okay, I'll throw in the trash.
[02:04:29.300 --> 02:04:30.580]  I'm not required.
[02:04:30.580 --> 02:04:31.420]  Yeah.
[02:04:31.420 --> 02:04:32.260]  Okay.
[02:04:32.260 --> 02:04:33.820]  So I'll try to remember the evidentiary record
[02:04:33.820 --> 02:04:36.180]  and kind of pivot more in that direction.
[02:04:37.380 --> 02:04:38.380]  Yeah.
[02:04:39.220 --> 02:04:40.380]  But by the way,
[02:04:40.380 --> 02:04:44.700]  in your case where they use loose language like if,
[02:04:44.700 --> 02:04:46.300]  I would not respond.
[02:04:46.300 --> 02:04:49.700]  So I agree with the tactic that you have taken.
[02:04:50.580 --> 02:04:51.420]  Poppy.
[02:04:51.420 --> 02:04:52.260]  Okay.
[02:04:52.260 --> 02:04:53.100]  That makes sense.
[02:04:53.100 --> 02:04:53.940]  Well, hey, that's all I got.
[02:04:53.940 --> 02:04:54.980]  I really appreciate your time.
[02:04:54.980 --> 02:04:55.820]  Right on.
[02:04:55.820 --> 02:04:56.660]  Thanks, Steve.
[02:04:56.660 --> 02:04:57.500]  All right, Steve.
[02:04:57.500 --> 02:04:58.340]  Have a great day.
[02:04:58.340 --> 02:04:59.180]  Bye.
[02:04:59.180 --> 02:05:00.000]  All right.
[02:05:00.000 --> 02:05:00.840]  Good stuff.
[02:05:01.940 --> 02:05:03.700]  I'm looking, I'm looking, I'm scanning.
[02:05:03.700 --> 02:05:05.580]  We've got more guys just yelling about this and that.
[02:05:05.580 --> 02:05:07.900]  So, Dave, maybe we just need to do a part three
[02:05:08.540 --> 02:05:10.860]  and these guys got their notes in our ducks in a row
[02:05:10.860 --> 02:05:12.260]  and they want to come with these arguments.
[02:05:12.260 --> 02:05:13.100]  I'll set it up.
[02:05:13.100 --> 02:05:13.940]  I'll be the mediator.
[02:05:13.940 --> 02:05:14.760]  We can go head to head.
[02:05:14.760 --> 02:05:15.600]  I'd love to see that.
[02:05:15.600 --> 02:05:19.580]  So, either way guys, like, Dave, this has been great.
[02:05:19.580 --> 02:05:21.660]  I appreciate you coming on.
[02:05:21.660 --> 02:05:22.860]  Super eye opening.
[02:05:22.860 --> 02:05:24.740]  You know, I've learned a lot from you already
[02:05:24.740 --> 02:05:26.580]  and I've, you know, enjoyed having you on the show
[02:05:26.580 --> 02:05:27.740]  and talking to you.
[02:05:28.900 --> 02:05:30.580]  But tell the people where they can find you.
[02:05:30.580 --> 02:05:31.940]  You know, where they can buy a copy of your book.
[02:05:31.940 --> 02:05:32.860]  Where can they find you?
[02:05:32.860 --> 02:05:34.460]  You know, I know you're not on YouTube, you're on Rumble,
[02:05:34.460 --> 02:05:38.360]  but just kind of give your 30 seconds of plug time.
[02:05:39.360 --> 02:05:41.380]  Honestly, on Rumble, by the way,
[02:05:41.380 --> 02:05:44.580]  I think I have now 31 videos about the income tax
[02:05:44.580 --> 02:05:48.060]  up on Rumble in addition to many other topics as well.
[02:05:48.060 --> 02:05:49.260]  If you search for Dave Champion,
[02:05:49.260 --> 02:05:50.260]  you should find my channel.
[02:05:50.260 --> 02:05:52.300]  So, go ahead and subscribe to that.
[02:05:52.300 --> 02:05:53.940]  I'm also on X,
[02:05:55.820 --> 02:05:59.980]  Dr. Reality Five, I believe, is on X.
[02:05:59.980 --> 02:06:03.380]  By the way, Dr. Reality is DR Reality,
[02:06:03.820 --> 02:06:05.820]  not doctor spelled out.
[02:06:05.820 --> 02:06:09.020]  The website where you can get any of my writings,
[02:06:09.020 --> 02:06:14.020]  any of my work is drreality.news, not .com, .news.
[02:06:14.260 --> 02:06:17.860]  Same thing when you email me, David, drreality.news.
[02:06:17.860 --> 02:06:20.560]  Chris, can I talk about the specials I'm running right now?
[02:06:20.560 --> 02:06:22.060]  Please.
[02:06:22.060 --> 02:06:23.860]  Okay, so right now I've got two specials.
[02:06:23.860 --> 02:06:24.940]  I've got something I do every year.
[02:06:24.940 --> 02:06:26.580]  It's called the Big Christmas Special.
[02:06:26.580 --> 02:06:30.560]  Right now, if you use the coupon code XMAS24,
[02:06:30.560 --> 02:06:33.440]  you get 10% off anything and everything
[02:06:33.440 --> 02:06:36.320]  that's on the website, anything you watch 10% off.
[02:06:36.320 --> 02:06:40.200]  Also, if you use XMAS24 and your order includes
[02:06:40.200 --> 02:06:43.280]  income tax, shattering miss, and or body science,
[02:06:43.280 --> 02:06:46.360]  I will personally inscribe and autograph
[02:06:46.360 --> 02:06:49.040]  your copies of those two books for you.
[02:06:49.040 --> 02:06:53.240]  Conversely, I just released a video several weeks ago
[02:06:53.240 --> 02:06:54.960]  about the incoming tariffs.
[02:06:54.960 --> 02:06:58.240]  I think everybody's pretty aware that those are coming.
[02:06:58.240 --> 02:07:01.880]  And most intelligent people understand
[02:07:01.880 --> 02:07:04.480]  that the American people pay tariffs.
[02:07:04.480 --> 02:07:06.900]  That when a tariff is imposed,
[02:07:06.900 --> 02:07:09.800]  the American people pay that in the cost of higher,
[02:07:09.800 --> 02:07:11.960]  a higher cost for the goods they want.
[02:07:11.960 --> 02:07:14.540]  So the tariffs are coming.
[02:07:14.540 --> 02:07:18.240]  Some people, depending on what they're buying
[02:07:18.240 --> 02:07:19.320]  and what their buying habits are,
[02:07:19.320 --> 02:07:24.160]  some people will see their federal tax burden double.
[02:07:24.160 --> 02:07:26.960]  Most won't see it double, but some will see it double.
[02:07:26.960 --> 02:07:30.360]  But the reality is everybody is going to see
[02:07:30.360 --> 02:07:33.720]  their federal tax burden increase once these tariffs hit.
[02:07:33.720 --> 02:07:37.800]  So with that in mind, for those who think
[02:07:37.800 --> 02:07:40.240]  this might be an excellent time to get informed
[02:07:40.240 --> 02:07:42.440]  about the income tax and safely walk away,
[02:07:42.440 --> 02:07:44.740]  so that here you've been paying all this income tax
[02:07:44.740 --> 02:07:46.760]  for these years, and so now you're gonna be paying
[02:07:46.760 --> 02:07:49.360]  income tax plus the tariffs on top of that.
[02:07:49.360 --> 02:07:51.760]  Maybe you wanna make the income tax go away
[02:07:51.760 --> 02:07:55.320]  so you're not getting double hammered by federal taxation.
[02:07:55.320 --> 02:07:58.400]  So if you think this is the right time to do that,
[02:07:58.400 --> 02:08:00.160]  and you're not interested in all the other stuff,
[02:08:00.160 --> 02:08:04.360]  if you just enter the code tariffs at checkout,
[02:08:04.360 --> 02:08:05.320]  you'll get free shipping.
[02:08:05.320 --> 02:08:07.480]  So you don't worry about autographs and description
[02:08:07.480 --> 02:08:09.080]  and stuff like that.
[02:08:09.080 --> 02:08:11.360]  And so just enter tariffs and whatever you buy
[02:08:11.360 --> 02:08:13.880]  on the website, oh, as long as it,
[02:08:13.880 --> 02:08:15.240]  I'm sorry, I didn't wanna mischaracterize that.
[02:08:15.240 --> 02:08:18.200]  As long as it, the order contains a copy of income tax
[02:08:18.200 --> 02:08:22.020]  shattering the miss, in that case you get free shipping.
[02:08:22.020 --> 02:08:23.200]  Because that's the thing I really want people
[02:08:23.200 --> 02:08:26.200]  to understand, the income tax in light of the tariffs
[02:08:26.200 --> 02:08:27.400]  that are about to hit.
[02:08:27.400 --> 02:08:28.800]  Right, yeah, I remember that video.
[02:08:28.800 --> 02:08:30.280]  I gotta go back through it once or twice more,
[02:08:30.280 --> 02:08:32.040]  but there's always good stuff coming out
[02:08:32.040 --> 02:08:33.320]  of the Rumble channel, Dave.
[02:08:33.320 --> 02:08:34.400]  Well, thanks a lot again.
[02:08:34.400 --> 02:08:35.220]  Thanks for having on.
[02:08:35.220 --> 02:08:36.440]  I'm gonna pull you off, but hang out backstage
[02:08:36.440 --> 02:08:38.720]  while I wrap this up, and we'll chat here a little bit
[02:08:38.720 --> 02:08:39.560]  as we close things out.
[02:08:39.560 --> 02:08:40.380]  Okay, Chris.
[02:08:41.480 --> 02:08:42.560]  All right, guys.
[02:08:42.560 --> 02:08:44.600]  Guys, hope you enjoyed the podcast.
[02:08:44.600 --> 02:08:46.800]  If you guys wanna follow Dave, like I said,
[02:08:46.800 --> 02:08:50.200]  drreality.news, buy the book, makes a great Christmas gift.
[02:08:50.200 --> 02:08:52.280]  Take advantage of the specials if you're interested
[02:08:52.280 --> 02:08:55.560]  in learning more about income tax shattering miss.
[02:08:55.560 --> 02:08:57.840]  I've got my copy already.
[02:08:57.840 --> 02:08:58.680]  Yeah, this has been great.
[02:08:58.680 --> 02:09:02.720]  So just so you guys know, back here on Monday, Tuesday,
[02:09:02.720 --> 02:09:06.120]  we do four shows a week now, Monday through Thursday.
[02:09:06.120 --> 02:09:08.280]  You know, we're back here for chopping it up on Monday
[02:09:08.280 --> 02:09:10.640]  at 8 p.m., ladies night, Tuesday, 8 p.m.
[02:09:10.640 --> 02:09:12.560]  You know, on Plugged Alpha, 12 p.m. on Wednesday,
[02:09:12.560 --> 02:09:14.440]  and then we'll have another office hours scheduled
[02:09:14.440 --> 02:09:16.840]  for you guys next week at the regular time, 12 p.m.
[02:09:16.840 --> 02:09:19.560]  Just wanted to accommodate and make sure we had enough time
[02:09:19.560 --> 02:09:22.200]  to grab callers and things like that.
[02:09:23.120 --> 02:09:26.000]  But anyway, guys, like leave a like on the video.
[02:09:26.000 --> 02:09:28.040]  You'll help spread the word if this is helpful to you.
[02:09:28.040 --> 02:09:29.840]  Buy the book, you know, read it for yourself.
[02:09:29.840 --> 02:09:31.680]  There's a lot of naysayers out there.
[02:09:31.680 --> 02:09:33.480]  And the great part about the internet
[02:09:33.480 --> 02:09:36.160]  and the world we live in is you can go do all this work
[02:09:36.160 --> 02:09:38.920]  and all these fact checking and all the research on your own
[02:09:38.920 --> 02:09:40.280]  if you just care enough about it.
[02:09:40.280 --> 02:09:42.120]  But yeah, we're gonna sign off, guys.
[02:09:42.120 --> 02:09:42.960]  Really enjoyed it.
[02:09:42.960 --> 02:09:45.280]  And see you on the next one.